Pete7874

For ALL 4matic models.
There was no design change. The 2008 and 2009 owner manuals (as well as service manuals that dealers use) contain an error. I already alerted MBUSA to this mistake, and they thanked me for it and promised to get this corrected.

Well, if someone dumped 8.5 qt in there previously, then that's what you're going to extract, no mystery there. It doesn't mean it's the correct amount though.

Sadly the dealers are also going off of this incorrect documentation and they're overfilling these engines. When we bought our CPO'd 2008, the engine was overfilled, and I was even getting occasional "check engine oil level" warnings on the dashboard. I did suck out about 8.5 quarts out of it when I did the oil change. But it only needed 7.5 quarts of fresh oil to get it back to max again. Dealers blindly just dump 8.5 quarts in there because that's what the documentation is telling them. They don't even bother to check that it's overfilled afterwards.

jctevere

Damn, I just looked up what damages could have been caused by overfilling the engine with oil...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_damag...motor_with_oil

I came upon this article. I am a bit pissed as I do have a squeaking, I thought it might just be a belt, but I am afraid it is something more serious... And what's worse is that I don't have a leg to really stand on as far as proving the fault on the dealer... My enigne oil was brown and dirty, but no sludge (I dunno if synthetics jsut get this way) and I do remember seeing a bit of shiny material and thinking, oooh, kind of cool.

I did have a pretty bad engine misfire two months ago. Where the CEL was blinking and the engine was running terribly. To my knowledge and research the that the rods and pistons (if that makes sense) were out of sync. Luckily I turned off the car and restarted it and all was fine. But I wonder if this had anything to do with it...

Pete7874

I think this article is just presenting worst case scenario if the engine was seriously overfilled (like double the amount of oil). One other thing that I've read is that excess oil may get into your exhaust and poison the catalytic converters.

In our case, that 1 extra quart shouldn't really cause serious issues, hopefully, but who knows.

Engine oil turns brown and then eventually black with age. That's normal.

If you had a blinking CEL, then most likely there are some fault codes stored in the ECU that could help you diagnose what happened. Have the dealer read the codes when you're in for service.

nyca

The two changes I did without the adapter, I definitely got less oil out - each time I only put in what I removed. The adapter works, period - gets more oil out then the diptupe method. I've done two oil changes with the adapter and have another coming next month.

I have a 2009 4MATIC, can't comment on the spec change for the 2010s/11s.

kevink2

I did not see that in the chart recently posted.

... and don't forget all the owners manual downloads at the MB web site.


Right, but your 1/2 done. When you then put 8.5 back in, and dipstick has same reading, no problem there.

What suction method did you use?

Before I condem MB on such an obbvious change, I'd like to see a few more empties with either drain plug or suctions with MB adaptor methods, with 7.5 out and 7.5 in, oil at top of cross hatched zone.

.

kevink2

How much came out, and went back in, for those 2 changes?
.

nyca

About 7 for the first two, without the adapter. And that's with leaving the diptube in there "slurping" for 30 minutes. Works much better with the adapter, gets "that elusive missing quart" out and its a quicker suction time.

I use the dipstick when I add in any case.

Also, recall our earlier discussions about the dipstick in the 4M - you pull it out after driving the car, its bone dry. There is some kind of venturi action going on in that pan that sucks that dipstick bone dry, and you have to re-insert it a second time to get a reading. As I recall, the people with rear wheel drive cars do not report the same thing, do this appears to be something else unique to the 4MATIC pan.

RLE

There is no way the mechanical parts can change their relationships to each other because that relationship is connected by gears and chains. If a chain tensioner fails and a chain skips a tooth, you will know it right away, believe me. And, the pistons and connecting rods are an assembly and if one comes apart, the engine will likely be destroyed.

In the past, overfilling the oil past the midpoint on the stick resulted in a fast burnoff down to the midpoint plus forcing some out past the rear main seal which ended up on the garage floor.

Which is why the oil filler cap still has the warning about overfilling.

The V-6s seem to be different in that they can be filled to the max point on the stick and the level stays there until the next change.

kevink2

To put correct oil levels in perspective ......

Many moons ago, I showed a bio grad student friend in the next appartment, how to change the oil in his new Vega.... About a year or 2 later, that lesson empowered him to change the oil in his friend's Audi ... drain oil out, put new oil in. He politely refused to take any money, and did a final dipstick check, and noted the level seemed a bit too high ......

He got a call from ex-friend with audi later that day, and, you guessed it, the trans seized up because he had drained the gearbox, and overfilled the engine oil (not enough time to do any harm there).

kevink2

Just got off the phone with local service manager. He said all C300 models, all years take 9.0 quarts (wrong answer). I told him the Owner Manual differences after 2009, including rwd vs 4matic.

I asked him if he would check the manuals, etc, and get back to me, and he said "I'll find out right now" and I could hear him walking across the shop floor to the tech at the drain area. (I know the shop layout)

He came back to phone, and he was right only on the 9.0Q, for the C63 V8.

The Tech told him that there was a change in the oil pan design for 2010 and 2011 4matics ... dropping capacity to 7.5 quarts. For 08 and 09, all but the C63 get 8.5 Q's.

As I said before, all MB oil capacity related documentation, all the MB web site info on capacities is true, as well as your Owner's Manual for your car.

Chill

.

Pete7874

What purpose would that serve? It'd be interesting for someone with an access to MB part catalog to verify if the oil pan part number has in fact changed from 2009 to 2010...

I did my change using the dipstick tube adapter from fluid evacuators. 8.5 qt came out. 7.5 qt went in and I was already at full on the dipstick. I'll be sure to watch it next time I do an oil change to see if I hadn't made a mistake last time.

But once again, I wanted to make a note on the fundamental difference between RWD and 4Matic. 4Matics have a larger trans/differential fluid capacity (not coincidentally by about 1 qt). This is because of the larger volume being taken up by the 4Matic mechanism. This mechanism encroaches on the engine oil pan area, and that's why 4Matic oil pan is about 1qt smaller than RWD. And to the best of my knowledge, this applies to all model years.

By the way, here's the response I received from MB USA when I asked them about the engine oil capacity of our 2008 C300 4matic:
This was about 2 months ago.

kevink2

Me too.

nyca

Why would they change the pan design? I wonder if they changed the pan design because of the inability of the "old" pan to accept a diptube to the low point for suction, or because they finally solved the venturi issue which is why my dipstick is always initially dry!

jctevere

I can tell you that they did not change the oil pan in the 2010/2011 models. At least not a change that would allow me to put my tube all the way down the dipstick tube. Same on my sister's 2011 c300 4matic as on my 2009 c300 4matic. I am guessing that the tech just made that up because he noticed the manuals had a new reading and just assumed that it was because it was a new pan redesign.

So are we supposed to fill it to near the "max" point or in between the two dots? I put 7.5 qts in and took out about 8.3. I had the first oil change at the dealer, so I don't know how much they put in. I would assume that they put in 8.5 meaning that I left about .2 or so quarts in the pan. I don't really think its that big of a deal, but I couldn't get anymore out. It would just keep slurping and nothing else would come through the tube. Should I have reinstalled the new oil filter before this occurred? My father told me to wait until its done and dump some new oil in the oil filter reservoir and then reinstall the oil filter. Was I not supposed to do that and that was a bad habit he passed on to me?

My oil reading after the engine was warm was right at the maximum point when I added 7.5 quarts.

Pete7874

I really don't see this as a problem that needs solving. On any other car, you will never get an accurate reading when you pull the dipstick the first time. It'll have oil all over it, so you'll need to wipe it, put it back, and then pull it out again to read the level. No different on our C300s.

kevink2

As I said before (I think ..) most other mfg's don't directly design for suction evacution/draining from the top of the diptube. For this, MB runs the diptube about 1/8" off the bottom. So when running, the "filled" zone on the dipstick is below the oil level in the pan, but inside the diptube.

As the car runs, the pcv pulls a vacuum in the crankase. The orings at the top of the dipstick will let the relatively thin air to pull slowly down the dip tube, all the way down, and allow a tiny rise of oil in the pan/crankcase.

Almost all other mfg's use the drain plug to empty oil. The dip tube is just long enough to guide the dipstick by the crankshaft, and end it ends above the oil level in the crankcase. The PCV has no tendency to dry off the dipstick at the level markings.

lfilomeno

what adapter did you use?

nyca

The fluidevacuators one. I need another oil change now, but its so damn cold and snowy, I am putting it off until we get some moderation.

lfilomeno

can someone confirm Fluid Evacuator is still in business? I am trying to call them\email them but got no response! ARGGGH!

lfilomeno

I finally had some free time and changed the oil in my 2009 C300 Sport this weekend using a Motive Power Extractor 1708. The dipstick tube adapter from John Dow does not work on my car. It took me almost a month to get it. the Motive pump comes with a smaller flexible tube which I insterted all the way thru. Pressurized the extractor to approximately 12 in.Hg (as explained in a previous post) and pulled 8qt of oil in 35 minutes before the pump started sputtering and the pressure dropped to 0. Change the oil filter and O rings as well plus change the air cabin filter too. I also checked the brake fuild and coolant levels and they were o.k. The experience was not bad at all and by doing this myself I save me quite a few dollars! the "stealership" wanted $600.00 aproximately to do all that! By the way I also reset the Service B indicator message as well.

kevink2

I called 1 month ago... Kevin was there and had plenty of inventory.

It would be better to have them supply a MB only upgrade vendor with lots of 10.

nyca

Got around to doing a change today - no way the 2009 4MATIC has only 7.4 quarts, I pulled out 8 with the fluidevac adapter and an electric suction pump. And that doesn't count the filter. I don't think I'm overfilling it everytime, I'm not near the max line on the stick.

This was my 5th change. You know, why is the dipstick measuring end that pale red color - its so hard to see the oil line on it, couldn't they have made it white?

lfilomeno

Let's see if I can be lucky enought to get one! If someone has a spre that hey need to get rid of, I am standing by to purchase it!

itsLoonie

Tried calling them so many times for the adapter and they never seem to pick up.

hellasmania219

just use a rubber stopper with a hole through it...or even a cork