MB09C300

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and I thought I come by here to seek help...Service A light is on and I need an oil change. My mileage is 500 over 10K. I am planning to use the MityVac7201 to extract my oil...planning to use about 8 qt of Mobil One 0w40...and K&n Oil filter...

Since I am doing the oil change myself would it be better to use all OEM filters for air and oil? Would K&N be ok? Is it necessary to change the air filter at over 10K?

Please help any opinion would be greatly appreciated...

RLE

Your choice of oil is correct. MB says their fleece filter is to be used for their extended oil change interval so why you would think a K&N is superior is a question. The air filters certainly shouldn't need changing at 10K miles. Pull them out and take a look.

nyca

Just use the OEM oil filter, why mess around. Save all your reciepts.

e1000

The K&N filter is made by the same company as the OEM filter. The OEM fleece filter is the only one approved by MB and using anything else may void your engine warranty.

RLE

I bought six OEM filters (all MANN) recently and I'm looking at one of the boxes which shows MANN+HUMMEL GMBH factories in Germany, Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico and the Czech Republic.

So, which of these is manufacturing K&N filters?

e1000

Pretty sure MANN makes them all.

Glyn M Ruck

K&N is a direct rebrand of the Mann blown polyester (fleece) filter from Germany. As is Bosch. None of them is stupid enough to mess with the Benz recommendation - they just buy in the OE filter. Others are less reputable - Stay away from paper filters!!



Read this thread

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-question.html

RLE

I see that K&N puts their own numbers on the pictured filter which is visually identical to my MANN which is labelled HU 718/5 071019.

I didn't buy my six filters from a dealer, needless to say.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes - K&N & Bosch get Mann to put their own numbers & logos on the filters. Identical, other than branding & numbering fleece filters can be bought in Yellow & Green Mann packaging, Silver & white Benz packaging or K&N or Bosch packaging. Other manufacturers have also bought from Mann but it seems hit & miss so I would not recommend them unless you know exactly what you are looking at. Mann fleece filters are ALWAYS thick & white with the yellowish beige end sealing.

Glyn M Ruck

Here's the Mann for M112, M272 et al



Don't worry about the sealant colour - some of it is exposure & some is variation. Mann have been messing with environmentally friendly glues.

jclassboat

A real guage of oil quality is its TBN (Total Base Number) higher TBN usually indicates its a better oil. Total Base Number (TBN) is the measurement of a lubricant's reserve alkalinity for combating acids. If you are operating a vehicle in colder weather where lower viscosity is a consideration then 5-20/30 is OK. If you operate in milder weather then 10-30 is what I would use. If you really want to upgrade the oil filter you may want to do what I just did. Install a PurePower permanent oil filter. Just like the K & N air filter it is designed to be cleaned and re-used. It is super quality with Viton O-Rings, stainless steel mesh@ 10 microns and intergrated magnets to trap metal debris. At about $ 200 it is not cheap but I will not have to buy another Oil filter for my C350 ever again. Check out this filter at GoPurePower.com Oil actually goes through this filter not around the sides like OEM. Another advantage is extended oil change intervals. I can safely go another 5K between changes. I also replaced the stock air filters with a dry permanent filters from AFE.

Glyn M Ruck

This is nonesense. High TBN oils are designed to offset the deleterious effects of suphur in diesel fuel. TBN means very little in gasoline engine oils. You need a very minor amount of TBN. You need as much TBN as you need to offset the combustion acids that result from sulphur in fuel and no more. Excessive TBN can be a negative. Alkyli compounds can be as corrosive as acidic compounds. If you used a 55 TBN Marine diesel engine oil in a gasoline engine you would screw it up.

Do not fit 10 micron mesh filters. A fleece filter is approx 1 micron nominal, 3 micron absolute, 75 beta ratio.

Oil goes THROUGH the media of an OEM filter!

Only use 229.5 approved oils with the Mann fleece filter. They were designed to operate synergistically. Observe viscosity grades that were approved. Most others fail HTHS (high temperature high shear).

Do not extend drains beyond Benz' recommendations. The US is already pushing drain intervals vs ROW. Additives in engine oil deplete. And no - more additive is not better. Then the ash level of the oil increases beyond spec. Do not try to out guess Benz' extensive testing with the Oil & Additive companies - They invest millions of dollars in research.

Carsy

This is all good stuff!!

91RS

That is absolutly asinine. I feel sorry for the poor ******* that gets your car after you sell it.

MB09C300

Mann Oil Filter HU 718 is the OEM filter used? Anyone know how much the dealer sells them for?

91RS

$15.

RLE

That's a pretty good price for a dealer. I just checked the online site I've been using for years for MB and Porsche parts (www.buymbparts.biz) and they want $13.38 for the MANN filter and their price for a K&N is $19.58 which is the same filter as we now know. Plus shipping.

Looks like filter prices have increased.

jclassboat

I disagree with your position on the issue of TBN and its application to passenger car use. I am not a chemical engineer so I have to go by what I have researched. The following is an article I found on this subject. Excerpted from “Rod and Custom Magazine”
In addition to the neutral base petroleum, motor oil is packed with ingredients to improve the makeup of the oil and its ability to lubricate under such conditions as friction, load, and heat. Zinc, calcium, boron, phosphorus, magnesium, sulphur, and other chemicals are typically present at different levels. Zinc, which acts as an anti-wear agent, is one of the most significant additives. Additive packs are more likely to be found in greater quantity and be more concentrated in heavy-duty commercial oil (sometimes referred to as "truck oil" or "diesel oil") than in light-duty passenger car motor oil (PCMO).
Viscosity refers to a liquid's resistance to flow, or in the case of motor oil, how well it flows at low and high temperatures. Oil with a high viscosity can't flow as quickly to engine parts at lower temperatures. A lower-viscosity oil is more likely to fail at high temps.
Multi-viscosity oils (sometimes called multi-weight or multi-grade) were created to provide the best characteristics of high and low viscosity. It's a common misconception that multi-viscosity oil changes weight-thickening or thinning-as temperature changes (e.g. that 20W-50 oil will be a 20-weight when it's cold and a 50-weight when it's hot). What really happens is that polymers used to create multi-grade oil chemically react to inhibit thinning at high temperatures. At an operating temperature of 212 to 215 degrees, 20W-50 oil will not thin more than 50-weight oil would at that temperature and will have the characteristics of 50-weight when it's hot, but will never be thicker than the 20W base weight.
The more polymers in the oil, the wider the potential viscosity range-but there is a drawback. Polymer is plastic and can build up inside the engine, preventing the rings from seating in the cylinders, and creating heavy deposits in the heads. For that reason, multi-grade oils with a wide viscosity range (such as 10W-40 and 20W-50) are generally not the wisest choice.
Acid can spoil motor oil by destroying the additive pack. On the pH scale (which expresses acidity or alkalinity of a solution), a total base number (TBN) above 7 is alkaline, 7 is neutral, and below 7 is acidic. Oil needs a TBN above 7 to neutralize acid. Good commercial-grade oils will typically have a base number in the high 9s, and shouldn't be lower than somewhere in the 8s.
Good commercial-grade heavy-duty oil is a better grade than PCMO, and commercial oils can be used in gasoline engines. For general highway use a good commercial API-certified 10W-30 for longer engine life. Thinner oils with lower base numbers (e.g. 5W-30 and 5W-20) were created to satisfy fuel economy standards, but wear out far more quickly than heavier weights. Check the label to determine the quality of the additive pack.

There are other issues to consider with paper/cellulose filters. An over-absorbent can "wick out" the zinc and other working ingredients in the additive pack, reducing the quality of the oil.

Glyn M Ruck

This too is nonsense - I do not give a rat's @$$ what ill informed publications print & this is typical of that rubbish. I've been in the oil industry with a super major for 39 years - I think I know what I'm talking about.

PCMO's are formulated to handle a different set of criteria than HDMO's . A simple example is PCMO's have to contend with low temperature sludge whereas HDMO's have to deal with high temperature sludge. In the case of 229.5 Benz approved oils the PCMO has a higher additive treat than 229.51 HDMO which is for Benz passenger car diesel with Cat & particulate filters.

The only minor credence I will give this rotten article is that of VI improver in large quantities in some multigrade oils can be detrimental in some applications - e.g. turbo bearings where it can cake on due to extremely high temperature & limited oil flow at shut down. This most often applies to diesels.

However - there is more than one way to formulate a multigrade oil. Use high VI base stocks - usually synthetic & very little VI improver or the converse.

In the case of Benz approved 229.5 PCMO's they use very high VI synthetic base stocks & very little but highly stable VI improver. VI improvers are polymers but are not all equal.

VI by definition is "the rate of change in viscosity for a given change in temperature"

229.5 approved gasoline engine oils = ash level > 0.8 to 1.6% (a rough indication of additive content)

229.51 approved PC diesel engine oils = ash level < 0.8%

Benz have decreed that no one product may claim to be suitable for both applications.

I stand by my comments on TBN

There are many ashless additive components today so this is a rough guide.

Mann blown polyester "fleece" filters do not "wick" or filter out additive components.

To jclassboat - suggest you read the STLE (The Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers) magazine instead of the rubbish you do.

To Benz owners - please do not be influenced by the nonsense you read in some cheap magazines. Listen to Benz & the requirements specified in their manuals for long service life of your vehicle.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes!

Glyn M Ruck

Indeed a good price - some dealers charge over $20

91RS

I could be wrong about that they usually charge. I get wholesale prices from my dealer and my reciept said list price is $15 (I paid $12). I'm sure Mercedes dealers probably use the matrix pricing stuff too that usually puts parts over list price.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes - dealers seem to charge what they like - large variations on things like filters.

Moto_Guzzi

I am still confused as to if I can change my W204 2008 oil myself with suction. I phoned two dealers workshop foremans and both told me the same story=You cannot do it on a W204. The service indicator will reset by itself, depriving you from other service jods, which make sence if it is true. The engine has a sensor detecting new oil. ??
Is this true:If I suck out the oil and replace with correct oil, will they know , and reject motorplan 120000+?

As it stands I would like to replace the oil every 6 months rather than every year, but workshops refuse to do it[I pay]!

white_glass_top

Replaced my air filter, with the K&N filters, and I have had mine service since, and dealer even agree that the K&N filter were better than the factory. Also said that one of the first things he does on his cars. Also no mention of it voiding my warranty, but I am alos over in Germany right now, maybe stateside, I might have some issues. But K&N, also advertises that their filters will not void warranties