Do you have a suggestion for an aftermarket part/parts that would remedy the issue for good?

 

*Update* So the dealer is saying the car would not start when the tow truck dropped it off. But it would start the next day and had no codes in memory. They are saying they can't fix it without being able to replicate the problem. He even suggested I might have to take the car back and just wait for it to happen again. That seems entirely unacceptable, if they can't fix it this time how are they going to fix it next time? I also saw a MB tech on another forum mention that it is almost always the ELS and not the EIS. Any suggestions?

 

It is the electronic steering lock. The car acknowledges the key but the steering lock gets stuck, causing the car to think it's stolen. That's why wiggling the wheel until it works it's way out sometimes starts the car. The question is, is the new unit they're putting in defective also?

 

So even though I hear it move and can turn the wheel? Does the els have two functions, a mechanical lockout and it has to read the key?

 

First, it reads the key. Then, it unlocks the steering wheel. If either of those things go wrong, the car will not start. The fact that you heard the lock means it recognised the key. The problem is, the lock may not have unlocked all the way.

 

GL450 CDI, 2010

My car wont start all of the time.

For the last 3 days I have been reading all I can on the steering problem and Ignition module, but I haven't found anyone who has described anything like my vehicle.

A few things happen in sequence when the vehicle wont start.

The ignition lights will come on as they normally do, but no crank, turn the key back and try again, nothing happens, engine does not crank, just the normal pre ignition lights in the cluster.
Turn the key back to off and then On position and maybe all the lights in the cluster will turn off, it is now dead, the CD unit stops going thru its motions, fuel pump stops, it all stops, silent no sound.

People, I am certainly not trying to bore you or make this any longer than it should.

Then suddenly there is a crank, engine starts and it is of again in 3 secs, try again, it will start and then off again in 3 secs, sometimes if you are lucky it will start and remain on, you are are good to go, but most time it has to do this ceremony about 3 times, use to be twice but it has become 3 times.

I have learnt a few ways, to coax the vehicle to start, but its getting more difficult as days go by.
You could wait and try after 5 mins, turn the ignition key to start an it might start like normal, other wise, you turn the key back and forth a few times, the lights may or may not come on. You could open the door, the lights come on in the cluster

I have put in the key to the ignition and all the lights in the cluster have come on, vehicle starts and then just dies, the car has gone off and just like that comes back to life again after a while, baffles me. Its insane

Bottom line, you have to keep turning the key while it does lights on and lights off, a few times, wait an pray.

If I'm gone an hour or 2, The vehicle starts like normal.
If the key is left in the ignition when the kids are watching a movie or something, It will take me thru all the motions before it starts, you can't leave the key in the ignition, it doesn't like it.

The car starts first thing in the morning, even if it is cold, the moment the heater lamp goes off, turn the key, the vehicle will start faster than most cars, and its fine, actually super.
Make your first stop and then you see.

Does anyone know what is going on here.

There is a little history here and it may have nothing to so with this problem. On these thread senior members and others have experience of this.
The vehicle showed a fault ESM - Gear selector module.
I bought a used one (big mistake). We changed it and we couldn't sync it to the vehicle, its was a DOA.
Eventually, We had to return the the one that was on there before and after installation, the car went dead.

There is a guy in the area whose job is for a fee, is to start up vehicles, sorts out these kind of problems.
He went on line, did a download and started the vehicle, but every setting on the vehicle had changed from the daylight running lights etc to KPH from miles, the rear windows would'nt all roll up, easy entry etc, all had to be reset.

I seem to think he may have not gotten the correct down load, or some setting has not been applied or reset.

The ignition problem started shortly after.

I think I will need a solution and parts in a hurry

 

If you can turn the key to the point where dash lights come on, then that is a clear indication that this, most certainly, is NEITHER an ESL issue NOR an EIS issue.

With the start/no start issue, and only from your description in the quoted pats above, I would venture a guess you've got (a) a dead or dying battery, (b) possibly a bad starter motor, or (c) a bad starter relay.

But, before I would start digging into any of the above issues, I would surely try to resolve this little problem:

Before leaving that bit, was there a code that was shown? What was the code? And what sort of device did you use to retrieve the code? (Trust me, there is a point behind these questions)...

I am not sure what to make of this part though....

What was the purpose/intent behind calling this guy to download/upload whatever it was he did...? Was it to resolve the "Gear Selector Module" Problem?

And if so, if you determined that the Gear Selector Module was defective, why was it not replaced and instead, it was determined that a software problem would somehow repair it?

 

I realize my response is late for this particular poster, but here ae my 2 cents with regards to what you posted...

Both, ESL and EIS would trigger a Diagnostic Trouble Code when they are defective or when they malfunction. Without either (or both) of these codes, "fixing it" would be like throwing mud on a wall to see what sticks.

zWould it have been more acceptable for them to replace one or both parts, costing you in upwards of $2000 or more, only to then have it turn out to be a completely different problem?

And this is precisely why the car would need to get connected to the STAR system, a diagnostic check is performed, DTCs are read, it is then and only then, would a proper diagnosis be made. So just because a tech said it is almost always ESL and not EIS, for those very few instances where EIS was, in fact, the problem, replacing ESL would not have resolved the issue.

I am not sure what the issue ended up being in your case, but t would be great if you can offer us more details of anything that happened after your most recent post. Did the problem persist? Did you have it fixed? And if so, what di it turn out to be? Thanks...

 

No-one here can repair it. He tried to zero the new (used) unit, but there was no response from it. It had to be removed and the old one put back.

The exercise cost me $550.
After this, It would have been more prudent to have bought a new one and made sure that the guy would check it was on zero before connection.

My uneducated opinion is that the vehicle found something odd and decided to shut down.
If I ordered a new one it would take a month to get here.

The download software was to start the car after the old unit was put back.

 

You mentioned a "fault ESM - Gear selector module" which I assume you mean a fault code, what code was it and what type of device did you use to retrieve it?

 

Cant remember the fault code on the Gear selector module, will see him this saturday and get it from him.

The machine was a 'AUTEL'

 

Update on my no-start situation. After taking it to and indy because the dealer didn't seem to know anything other than reading what the scan tool told them. The indy found that I had the wrong battery (previous owner install) and it was not putting out the proper voltage. Since the battery has been replaced I have had no issues at all with starting. I did notice before when the dealer had it that every single line on the star scan readout said "low voltage" yet they never even looked at the battery.

 

Well if the vehicle starts for technician at dealer, the tech isn't going to chase something that isn't there. It's indicative for a tech to chase something they can't duplicate!!!!!

 

I understand what your saying. Being a mechanic myself I know it's hard to duplicate an intermittent problem. All my independent mechanic did was notice the low voltage and follow that lead. Since our cars have a gazillion computer systems (just a wag, not an actual number) he said that a low voltage problem can cause many gremlins. Since Mercedes had my car for over a week, they could have followed the same lead, made a sale and kept a customer. They did neither.

 

Update* On car wont start all the time

Its been a remarkable weekend for the car that wont start all of the time ( I have an earlier post here).

Saturday, my buddy put it on the 'Autel' and true enough the fault code for the EIS was there.

Eventually after some searching and a little discussion on worst case scenario, my buddy decided to take the ignition unit apart. At this point he thought we had little to loose.

Its pretty easy to open the unit, once inside we found the soldering on pins (3) were broken. (See pictures)

The best thing to do is to give it some firmness by putting some hot silicone on to the solder points, it made all the difference from it being flimsy. They are pretty flimsy because of the bend from the Mboard is too thin.

That solved the problem of intermittent starting. Hurrah.

Turned on the ignition before re-assembly and viola, first kick start, totally excellent.

What had actually happened was the points were connecting some of the times, but not all the time and that caused all the pre - ignition lights in the cluster go off all at once and come back on all at once.

I cant quiet imagine how the solder points break in the first place, but they did.

I would never had found it and the dealer would have had a field day with me, my guy is sharp, mind you it took him a cup of tea before he said 'we are taking it apart'.

I am very grateful to all of you trying to help, it is very appreciated and I like my membership here.

I hope this will be of help to others.

 

and to think that circuit board got hot enough to melt solder, cant imagine what it will do to some silicone.....

 

Actually, when inspected under a 10x jeweller's lens, the solder points were broken and not melted.
It wasn't the heat, but where I live the roads are not carpet smooth and therefore there is the vibration, small and large bumps and an occasional pothole, to take into consideration.
Its a kind of a flatish wire that comes out of the MB and bends before it goes into the pin clip, the bend is thin and very small, its too thin...........simply too thin, knowing fully well this vehicles will be sold world wide, the wire should have been a thicker gauge. Mercedes skimped on it.
its just too bad.

 

THOU SHALT CUT COST skimp is a perfect word to use.... Sad but true.

 

Hats off to your buddy!! A nice piece of investigation!!! I like when people are logical in their analysis rather than just throwing parts at it. I wonder how many have paid thousands for a drop of solder ?

 

i have 313 000 KM on my 2008 c350 and just got her towed for same symptoms. In my dash via engineering menu, it showed lost comm with EIS and few other things...

 

Anyone have any input on my current situation? I have a W212 E63 however experience something similar to this. Thank you for any and all input.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvuk...ature=youtu.be

 

Nope. Your key is recognized (in spite of the dash message stating "Please Take Your Key From Ignition", key turns, dash, lights (and I suspect radio) all turn on. I don't know if you tried to turn the steering wheel, but I suspect it will not be in the locked position.

All of these indictors show that your key was properly identified, that ESL communicated with EIS and both have signalled that the car is ready to get started, yet the next process required to get it to start isn't working. I would start by checking fuses (possibly starter fuse) as well as your battery may be close to being fully drained.

If this were EIS or ESL, you would not be able to turn the key at all, no lights would come on (because it has not successfully identified a known key).

One thing I am curious about though, what was the "smack" sound @0:20 in your video?

 

I appreciate the input. From what I have researched, the ESL can still fail even if the EIS is functioning properly, which clearly it is (keys turn fine, all lights power on). The ESL, if malfunctioned, will fail in he locked position to prevent theft which I believe is the case here, as my steering IS locked in all key positions. The keys both work fine, and have new batteries in them. And the car has a new main AGM battery thats 4 months old and a new auxiliary battery that is two weeks old. I am also not able to move the vehicle out of park.

That click you are hearing at the turned startup attempt (past position 2) is the starter trying to start the engine. I pulled the starter relay and didn't hear that click, so I believe the relay and starter are functioning properly and the problem lies elsewhere.

Any more input is appreciated!

 

I am not sure anyone can establish that ESL will only fail in the locked position. In fact, for those claiming this is a mechanical issue with the lock itself, (whether that is lubrication or a weak motor that eventually fails), failure could occur while it is in any state, locked or unlocked.

Instead, it is my undersranding that if ESL failed, no matter which state it is in, the starting cycle will not begin due to the malfuncion.

My bad, I didn't see you try to turn the steering which I assumed meant there was no issue there. I can also offer that when my steering lock failed (also in the locked position), that resulted in terminating the entire start up procedure, which meant, key would not turn, lights would not come on... etc.

However, you are driving a different model which may have had a different steering lock or a slightly different design as far as how all these components communicate together.

That is pretty loud...

last but not least, if ESL had indeed failed, then it should have thrown a diagnostic trouble code to the ECU although that can only be retrieved by connecting to STAR....

Good luck.... and please update us once you get a diagnosis.

 

Will do, thanks for the input.