IGB

If by "should be addressed by Mercedes Benz" you mean "should be paid for by Mercedes Benz", I am curious to hear the reason(s) why you'd suggest that Mercedes Benz should pay for out of warranty repairs on an out of warranty car!

So they are wrong for recommending some needed repairs but they are also wrong for not recommending a needed repair (which, depending on the nature of the problem, may or may not have come up during diagnostics)

IGB

Nonsense?

Without knowing what condition the car is in, what its history is, what issues were found and what remedies were eecommended.... I am curious, how were you able to determine that its "classic dealership nonsense"?

IGB

Very well said....

Also, and I am not saying this to be an ***, but for someone to describe himself as "having 35 years in the Porsche and other European car industry and repairs" would:

A) be aware of the high cost of European car repairs,
B) would have inspected or had someone who is knowlegable and experienced inspect -not just this but ANY used- car PLUS would have had that car on some sort of maintenance and repair plan where it would not suddenly require having $7000 worth of repairs...

All that said, the estimate should (obviously) include a list of issues needing repair. Without knowing what those issues are, its difficult for anyone to determine if this dealer is bending anyone over or if the needs are justified!

gforc3

Having this repaired for the 3rd time in one year and 7k miles... The car will have had both Eis and steering lock replaced literally 5 times in its 24k mile lifespan when it's fixed this time. I've been reading this thread and it seems that some people have had luck getting the starter motor replaced and also read about one where the software was updated which fixed it. Frustrated isn't the right word, this has been a dream car of mine for a long time and I finally am able to purchase one and it has been an impeccable experience besides this.. Not knowing whether the next time I put the key in the ignition I'm gonna hear that steering wheel unlock. Currently working with corporate and a dealership to sort the issue out.

The entire time I've owned the car, I've never seen anything other than the "please remove key from ignition" message on the center display in the instrument cluster. Can anyone confirm that's what it's always supposed to say when the car is off and key is out? This makes me think it may be software related.

Any other info regarding replacing the starter motor as a fix would be greatly appreciated as well.. Something is causing these parts to fail again and again and to get it sorted would be a dream come true.

Thanks for all the info on this thread so far

CGC

So my 09 C350 wouldn't start this morning. All the same symptoms, key on everything lights up, no crank. I have only 35k on the car. Anyone know what the warranty is?

LogicalApex

MB cars have a 4 Year/50K mile warranty. You can extend the warranty to 7 years/100K miles before the warranty expires.

If the car is a CPO it has whatever the remaining new car warranty is + 1 year/unlimited miles CPO extended warranty. You can extend that by 2 years to 3 years CPO/unlimited miles before the CPO warranty expires.

If the car is out of new car warranty period for a CPO when purchased the CPO warranty starts on delivery and can be extended by 2 years.

That is all MB... If you have a third party extended then that will be up to whatever your third party extended says.

CGC

Thanks for the quick reply, sounds like I am out of warranty. Just bought the car a week ago. Was very excited to own my first Mercedes until this morning.

cvx5832

I hope it doesn't put you off completely. This big nugget of your wallet aside, the W204 is a great car and I hope you enjoy it after this. At 35k that sill has a lot of life to give.

CGC

I hope it does. I'm just curios as to how long the repair will be warrantied.

TSchuettinger

It's a 2009. Chances are, it has no warranty. They might do a goodwill repair.

CGC

I am past the warranty, i'm just wondering how long they warranty the work done at the dealer.

IGB

gforc3, you should include info regarding what year your car is, what state (or country for that matter) you are in, because it would help others answer your questions. for example, this issue you describe here:

May qualify under some states' lemon law provisions but the ultimate resolution there is to get the manufacturer to buy back or replace the vehicle. But in this case, (1) replacing it might not be much of a viable option since the C63 is not a model that sells much, AND (2) it does not sound as if you'd be willing to let it go, in spite of the alleged repetitive need for repairs, and regardless of whether repairs are done under warrant or paid for out of your pocket.

I too, have read this, as well as several other threads on this issue. And not only here on this forum, but on other forums as well. However, I am not aware of any cases where someone has offered any information related to replacing a "starter motor" which would have allegedly fixed either EIS failure, ESL failure or both (both of which are indeed components that are linked together as well as to the starter motor during the starting cycle). So as far as I can tell, to suggest that the "starter motor" contributed to or was the result of EIS or ESL failure, is not an accurate statement.

While the symptoms of starter motor failure might be similar to EIS or ESL failure (insert key, turn key, lights come on, but starter motor does not turn along with engine does not crank), both ESL and EIS modules would have to perform there assigned tasks perfectly without failing prior to the starter motor to begin to perform its task.

You may be confusing a few posts made by a certain individual who has claimed that he was able to successfully repair ESLs which have failed by replacing the motor that is inside ESL (this is the motor which actuates the steering wheel looking mechanism) but this is a completely different motor from the starter motor.

Either way, it appears that the only person who can validate the ESL motor as being the culprit, and that replacing that "cheap underpowered Chinese made ESL motor" inside of ESL with what appears to be a similarly "cheap underpowered Chinese made Generic motor" will resolve the issue, is the person who is making such repairs (advertising) and is looking to benefit from them.

The other bit of information this individual is offering through his few posts, is that he can also install an ESL emulator to replaces those tasks that are performed by ESL during the starting cycle. In other words, he is hacking the starting cycle in a way to having some anti theft signals that are generated by ECU and are intended to go to ESL, to bypass ESL and instead into going to completely new part that does not perform the tasks required by ESL but gives the impression that it does. While some people might opt for such methods, I don't see the benefit in undermining the security system that MB designed and integrated into their cars.....

As for the one case (that I am aware of) where updating software fixed the no start no crank issue, there is no evidence that the car would not start due to EIS/ESL failure. In other words, the only remedy to either EIS/ESL failure is to replace the faulty EIS module or the faulty ESL module, depending on what fault code reading is obtained by connecting the vehicle to the STAR diagnostic system.

As far as your car is concerned, and since replacing EIS & ESL 5 times has not resolved the no crank/no start issue permanently, it would be wise to look into whether a software update might do the job, and if that happens to be the case, then the dealer was simply misdiagnosing the problem, and they went on assuming that either EIS failed, ESL failed or both failed when instead, neither EIS nor ESL was the culprit.

Wait... stating that you've never seen anything other than the "please remove key from ignition" message on the center display in the instrument cluster simply means that you've never inserted a key into the starter switch and have seen anything else besides this message, ever. It also means that you've never been able to start your car, ever. But since you've also stated that you have put 7k miles on your car, we can conclude that you're able to start the car often enough to drive it around.

That said, the "Take your key from ignition" message is supposed to appear on the instrument cluster when the car engine is off off, key placed in position "0" (zero) in ignition switch, the driver's side door is opened without removing the key from the ignition. If it appears on there at any other time, and if you were to attempt to turn the key and it (a) does not turn or (b) does not start the vehicle, then you may have ESL/EIS related issues but even then, it could be a whole slew of problems.

... and this makes it where that message appears on your car's instrument cluster 100% of the time regardless of whether the key is in/out, engine on/off, door open/closed!!!

When the car is off and the key is out, the instrument cluster should show nothing. It should be blank! Once the key is placed in ignition and depending on which position is it in (position 0, 1, 2 or 3) as to what message it should display.

For you and many others... My assessment of most of what is being posted, is that it is all speculation. So much so that some guy was able to ascertain that Mercedes Benz neglected to put enough grease on the Steering Lock mechanism, and that he has taken out his ESL unit, taken it apart, greased the mechanical parts and reinstalled it on his car hoping it would prevent failure.

The issue I have with such approach is that no one has a certain set period of time when this problem can/does occur, nor do we have a set of circumstances or conditions by which it is triggered. And in spite of some negative commentary suggesting that every C-Class is destined to experience this problem (for example, see the quote in my next post after this one)... #Fact is, not every one of the 240,000+ C-Class cars that Mercedes Benz sold in the US will experience ESL or EIS failure. And at least, not in any sort of predictable time period...

So whose to say that his "preventive maintenance" procedure (greasing the ESL locking mechanism) helped him and will continue to help him avoid having ESL failure? No one can tell....

IGB

#facts ????

Really!!!!

You can even pinpoint a timing for this failure as well?

CGC

Got home and tried again, started right up. Not sure what to think of that or what to do next.

LogicalApex

You will have to confirm the warranty coverage at the dealer. The part will have either a 1 year/unlimited miles, 2 years/24K miles, or a equal to new car warranty.

Do if you are experiencing this 3x in a year like the previous poster you wouldn't be paying for all three.

MB parts warranty covers labor as well.

cvx5832

If you can still get it to unlock, this tech article suggests you're actually in luck.

Let us know how it turns out!

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...eplacement.htm

CGC

Wow great find!

7chicks

I have a 2008 C300 with 58,000 miles. When I started my car, it wouldn't start. The key locks and unlocks the doors. But when I put the key in ignition, it tells me to remove the key from ignition. I can insert and turn the key but the car will not start. The steering wheel is locked and the drive is locked in park. I tried jumping and it did nothing. The battery checked out ok. I had to get the car towed on a flat bed to the dealership, and it cost me almost $500. The dealer says it's the Steering Column and needs to be replaced. They quoted $1527. I am really frustrated. I see a lot c300 owners have the same issues.

Can we file a class action suit against MB? We need to do something about it.

gforc3

Thanks for the reply. Its a 2012 CPO C63 coupe located in NY. I wasn't clear regarding the display; what I meant was when the key is out of the ignition that is the only thing that is displayed. I've seen other cars show mileage and info like that but my car only shows the "Don't forget key" message or something to that effect when the key is out of the ignition.

I've been driving a new E350 and noticed it does not have a steering lock at all.. wondering if its possible to just completely bypass the lock altogether at this point on my car. I believe the E's have electric steering though and that may be why there's no lock. I'm willing to try anything at this point before attempting a buy back/lemon law case

CGC

And I'm stuck again. Just had it at the dealer yesterday for an srs recall and had them give me an estimate. I was told since it only happened once before that it would probably be a while before it happened again. Apparently not.

cvx5832

Try the jarring steering column trick and see if that gets you started.

CGC

Tried that. But I can clearly hear the els work. I believe this is an eis issue.

CGC

Off to the dealer. Not impressed with week 2 of Mercedes ownership...

IGB

I can only assume that you have "Keyless Go" on your car... And if so, it is actually designed to display a message saying "Don't Forget Your Key" even when the key is not in the ignition.... This again, is by design and is not indicative of a problem.


This owner's manual (for a 2012 C-Class) describes it as (see page 226):

"The display message is shown for a maximum of 60 seconds and is only a reminder.
You have opened the driver's door with the engine switched off.
The KEYLESS-GO key is not in the ignition lock.
"

And it means:

"X Remember to take the KEYLESS-GO key with you when you leave the vehicle"

So if this the only thing you are assuming is a symptom of the problem, I think its a simple misunderstanding... On the other hand its hard to assume that the dealer is replacing $1000+ parts based on this one complaint.

Anything??? Even if it will result in voiding what existing warranty you have on your car??? (by installing a non-approved aftermarket part)....

gforc3

Definitely not based on a misunderstanding, the car throws codes every time and those are the parts they replace. I'm looking for the root cause of the parts failing and wondering if it's a software related issue.

I am willing to install anything to make it work once the warranty is up. Until then I don't see a reason to "void" it