Pete7874

The C300 is wife's car. She doesn't drive aggressively. The car came with ContiProContacts which have been good, but after only 15K miles, the rears are almost ready to be replaced.

Can I get something different that will offer comparable performance but longer treadlife? Michelin Primacy MXM4? Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus?

ContiExtremeContact DWS seems to be getting good ratings too, but I've also read about many quality/out of round issues and sidewalls being too soft/mushy, so I'm a bit hesitant to go there.

Sportstick

If you want all season tires to run up to, but not through, snow fall, Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus will get her through rain and the beginning of the temperature drop and offer the best tire performance feel.

If you are actually going to try to get through winter on the one set of all seasons tires (which I do not suggest), DWS are the way to go. We have three sets, perfect and for our non-aggressive drivers, and they are very happy and love the quiet and comfortable ride. Don't expect the same dry steering response and performance handling as from the Pilot Sport, but there is nothing wrong with them.

For the most cautious approach, I put DWS on my wife's E350 for three seasons, which will take her well up to the first light snow, and then change over to Blizzak WS60 (now 70) for the winter.

Pete7874

Thanks. No dedicated winter tires for the C300, so whatever we get will stay on there all year long. She got through last winter on the stock Contis without a problem. Snow plowing around here is fairly quick and efficient. If it gets too crazy, she just stays home.

Would you say the Pilot Sport A/S Plus would be comparable in snow performance to the stock Contis?

Stevedotmil

The MXM4's came on my car when I bought it. I wouldn't recommend these tires to anyone with a sporty driving style. Especially when it gets wet out they are worthless unless you are not getting past 3000 RPM ever. They are far from performance oriented. There are a lot of "better" all seasons out there for less money. DWS's are what I'm putting on there when these are done.

Pete7874

Just so that I'm clear, which version of MXM4 did you have? There is Primacy MXM4 and there is also Pilot MXM4. The latter is in fact very poorly rated on TR.

Sportstick

Very little could be as bad as the stock Contis. The Pilot Sport A/S Plus are better, but the DWS are in (as tirerack.com put it) a league of their own in snow or wet. If you need one set for all year, the DWS are a far better choice, especially as you said she is not an aggressive driver.

Stevedotmil

It's the Pilot. Total waste of perfectly good rubber trees somewhere in South America.

Pete7874

OK, thanks. I was considering the Primacy which ranked 3rd out of 30 grand touring all-season tires on TR. The Pilot MXM4 is ranked 24th.

The DWS is a lot cheaper. If it's also superior in the white stuff, I might just go with it. I've read about some issues with quality regarding this tire - out of round, hard to balance, but maybe those were just isolated cases in initial production runs that got corrected...

Stevedotmil

The Pilot Sport A/S Plus is the recommended tire for all season use by Porsche if that's any consolation. It has a longer wear rating than the DWS as well. I just don't want to spend the extra 300 dollars for the Pilots per set.

Glyn M Ruck

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus

kevink2

You aggressively drive rwd, his wife civily drives 4MATIC. Apples and Oranges.

Sportstick is very knowledgeable and non-combative, a great addition to this forum. But, he has an extreme position on winter tires (I do agree with winter tires or DWS for RWD in nasty winters). Taken to his logical extreme, we all should have tracked snow machines (like ski slope groomers) for winters:

Winter Ride

When I lived in Massachusetts, I got through 4 winters (in the 70's) in my Triumph GT-6 with barbaric, all-season tires, and 2 cinderblocks ( dangerous? ) on the rear deck for a more even wt distribution ... no accidents, just got stranded in one major storm.

Sounds like you bought a used C300-4MATIC, 08 and only 15K put on.

" car came with ContiProContacts which have been good, but after only 15K miles, the rears are almost ready to be replaced."

Is it a sport ot lux model, and were the tires new when car was bought? That would likely suggest a major alignment problem --- not unusual based on threads lately. Need more details.

The fact that you had no problems with wretched Conti's last winter (with worn rears?) confirms your tire philosophy.

We have stayed with Mich Piolet HX MXM's, X or side-side rotated every 5K or so. These new rubbers stay soft in extreme occasional conditions in DE. Note steep up hill driveway to steep (12-15% grade) back-road. Never a winter problem with 4MATIC.

I had exact same tire on an 04 Mazda6, and they suxxxcked from the start ... rock hard older rubber compound.

.

Pete7874

It's the sport model (225/45/17 front, 245/40/17 rear). The car was bought with 23K miles as CPO. Supposedly the dealer put on new tires at that time, and they did look like new to me, but I can't be 100% sure. Right now the car is at 38K miles. There is still some usable tread left on the rear... probably good for another 5K miles or so, but since winter is right around the corner, I thought I'll at least give new tires a thought. The car is going in for service today, and I'm pretty sure the dealer is going to suggest new tires on the back.

I don't see any unusual wear patterns that would indicate an alignment problem.

kevink2

15K is too soon, esp with 4MATIC and easy driving. The Sport has a stiffer and lower suspension (vs Lux), and has the wide rear tires, all negatives for winter performance (and long tire wear), but apparently your wife had no problems.

Did you rotate the rears side to side?

Could you take a pic or a rear tire worn tread? Or just get a "free" alignment check somewhere reputable, and if needed just let them adjust toe-in. Contact me (pm) for specs/advice before you do it.

As a CPO, seems like you may have an argument $$$ with Dealer about bad alignment or worn tires as sold.

One consideration is look for a used pair of front wheels. Buy those for rear, and sell wide wheels. This provides better winter performance, and allows full tire rotation options. This would be the exact same set-up as the lux model.

.

Pete7874

Thanks for the advice.

Won't be able to take a picture of the tire until Friday. Wife has the car today and is taking it for service. Then I'll be out of town for a few days.

I did not think to rotate the rears, although I remember the wear was rather even on them the last time I inspected them.

I don't know about Delaware, but around here the only places that give free alignment checks are so shoddy that I would never let them touch the car. Supposedly some MB dealers will give you a free alignment if you buy tires from them, but I'm definitely not planning on getting all 4 at this time.

Also, I do realize 245-wide tires aren't ideal for winter (I have 215-wide winter tires for my RWD 530i), but it hasn't been an issue for her last winter. She won't be driving through any deep snow in this car.

Sportstick

LOL....and thanks! My wife would say that being extreme is "sooooo unlike me"

You may be right, but I am more extreme for her than I am for myself....I don't cook so well.

And you are also right that my rwd C300 was very dicey with "all season" tires in winter. I went straight from Contis to Blizzaks after trying snow once, and then bought my Pilot Sport A/S Plus the next spring. She made it through a winter on the original Contis on her E3504MATIC, but when I saw the increment of improvement with the Blizzaks, I wanted her to have that as well. So, that change came first on her E. When her Contis wore out, I then got her DWS, mostly for great wet traction, and to allow her to work the margins of winter before changing to the Blizzaks. She is also a non-aggressive driver. So, we're not on snow machines yet around our house, but I do feel more comfortable by erring on the side of most available traction in winter.

Thanks again...glad you're here too!

kevink2

Is the service shop where you bought it?

If so, based on excessive wear on NEW tires specified for CPO cars, press for free alignment

.

Stevedotmil

I didn't see the 4matic bit there.

Pete7874

By the way, with 4matic, 80% of the power still goes to the rear wheels, so I wouldn't expect tire wear to be too much different from an RWD.

ayilar

I put 13.5k on the original Continental Pro Contacts (CPC), and now have 7k on Pilot Sport A/S Plus. Both are excellent tires in their own way -- but I am still looking for a better one.

My car is a C350 Sport, which I drive spiritedly -- about 50% on bad city roads, 30% on nice twisty small roads, and 20% on mid-Atlantic highways.

CPC: tracks well, reassuring handling in rain, quiet on most roads (but not on grooved highways), rather comfortable; on the downside, slight delay in turn-in, not great in snow.

Pilot A/S+: very, very good handling in both dry and wet, better than the Contis in the snow (though not as good as Pilot Alpin PA2 that I had on my C230k). The main downside is that they ARE harsher on the lousy blacktop that is called city streets here (my wife, after I'd changed the tires, asked me where my Mercedes ride "had gone") and they are quite a bit noisier (except on good highways, where they are actually quieter than the Pro Contacts).

I got a C300 Sport loaner last week, which had the CPC. Believe me, what a difference with the Pilots -- yes, the CPCs turn in with a half-second delay; yes, their handling is ever so slightly less sporty; but there really is a difference in ride comfort and noise level. Enough so that, even though I have true respect for the Pilot Sport all-seasons, and even though they have plenty of tread left after 7k miles, I am now seriously thinking about changing them for something quieter and smoother.

Going forward, I am thinking DWS or Pilot MXM4. Thoughts?

Sportstick

I understand your concern, but your assessment is unusual. Most find a much greater spread in performance between those CPC and Pilot Sport A/S Plus (you did mean the "Plus" version, true?). I went directly from CPC to Pilot Sport A/S Plus and found a huge improvement.

Anyway, for the purposes you are trying to satisfy, I suggest:

DWS or Primacy MXV4

ayilar

Yes, I have A/S+; sorry for not being precise. I have fixed my initial post.

A big difference is what I was expecting as well. Don't get me wrong, the improvement is clearly there, especially wrt responsiveness and turn-in. But I found it less of an improvement than I'd hoped for, and when I drove the C300 last week I found the handling worse than on my C350 but, again, not by enough to offset (for me) the pleasure of again having a quiet and smooth car.

The MXV4 is not available in the sizes I need for my C350 Sport.

I agonized over the DWS vs. PZero vs. Pilot Sport A/S+ last year. The Primacy MXM4 were not around then -- have you tried them? How is the noise of the DWS on a ("non-Dynamated") C, compared to that of the A/S+ or CPC?

Sportstick

Sorry for the MXV recommendation...did not realize the sizing was not compatible. I have not had the MXM4, but I see on tirerack.com that they are highly regarded for exactly what you are seeking. I have placed DWS on three cars, and smoothness and quietness has been very pleasing. However, none of those three cars is my C. The E is the closest and they replaced the CPC original equipment...a very nice improvement for my non-aggressive driving wife. They are quieter/more compliant than my Pilot Sport A/S Plus. If you have 17", you may feel the slower steering response, but the 18" size DWS have generally been regarded as having noticeably quicker response due to a difference in sidewall construction. The DWS will do better in light snow than the MXM4, but if you use winter tires, that capability won't matter. Neither is good for heavy snow.

ayilar

Indeed, last year I was disappointed that they did not come in the required sizes.

Thank you -- this is helpful. The problem, though, is that my driving style seems much closer to yours (spirited). I am therefore worried about the DWS in 17-in sizes, for precisely the reason the OP was worried and that you pointed out.

This is why I ended up not going with the DWS or the CPC when replacing my CPCs last year. Since the A/S+ I picked have been a disappointment on noise and harshness, I became excited after learning of the Primacy MXM4s last week.

Has anyone else had a chance to experience the Primacy MXM4, ideally comparing it to the Pilot Sport A/S+, the DWS, or the CPC?

jctevere

I have DWS on mine with 18" rims (same width as OEM sport rims, but non-staggered, so the size of the front rims). I have raised the PSI up to about 40.5/41 from the 34 I used to run. This is because there was a little bit of bite-in and dead on center feeling. However, after ramping up to 41 PSI, all of those issues went away and are very comparable with the stock OEM michelin's/conti's.

HOWEVER, the ride qulaity (smoothness, sound) is MUCH better than stock with my DWS. I personally love the tire, and have only had one issue, though not with the tire. One of my Zinik rims got a bent lip from a really bad pothole, but the tire is fine (no buldging) so if anything, I think that is a positive for the tire.

You can't really go wrong with either DWS or Pilot Sport A/S, they are both a great tire. I went with the DWS overall because I don't swap out for dedicated winters, and wanted the best snow performance possible even though I have 4maitc (without the hassle of winter tires). And also because they were MUCH cheaper in my size. If I recall correctly you can purchase 6-7 DWS tires for the same money you would pay for 4 Pilot Sport A/S... Also, not really sure where the person who said Pilot Sport A/S got their information from on tread life. Everything I have heard points to DWS having longer tread life (around 50k highway vs around 35-40k Pilot Sports highway).

I certainly drive "agressively" and these tires hold up to all of my expectations/needs. Routinely take entrance/exit ramps much faster than recommended, speed around turns, drive my car like I stole it, and I can't complain about the performance in dry. And in the wet these tires have completely surprised me, they are almost as good int eh wet as they are on the dry, you barely even notice the water. Simply amazing.

Pete7874

Here are the photos of the two rear tires. According to the service dept, the left one has 4/32" tread and the right one has 6/32" tread remaining.

What do you guys think? Should I just play it safe and get her two new DWS tires before winter comes?

Left:




Right: