Amsoil 5w-30? Any Amsoil users in here?
#51
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10 E63, Sold -07 E63
Would it be correct to say the Magnuson-Moss Act prohibits MB from mandating a certain brand of oil BUT it is legal for MB to say you must use an oil that meets their specs and then have their list of all oils that meet their specs?
Then, if your engine blows and MB shows you were using a non-certif oil, no warranty for you.....
Thanks for any clarification on this.
Then, if your engine blows and MB shows you were using a non-certif oil, no warranty for you.....
Thanks for any clarification on this.
No MB can not void your warranty on a non-certif oil alone. The oil must fail minimum requirements in the oil blend, not on certifications. Think of a certification as a right to have a seal on the brand stating it has passed those minimal requirements, and this seal cost A WHOLE LOT to have it printed or stamped on your product. Most oils now are pretty safe. It is these independent additives that create the problem. Since most oils already have some sort of additive such as detergents... adding another additive will most likely change the original oil's property to work as it claims, then the dealer may void your warranty.
#52
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I have had plenty to do with the FTC in my career & in fact was on the FTC "clean team" for our company's large merger some years back.
You are talking API classifications. Benz is talking hard testing and approval. API is a self approval process with payment for the use of it's symbols.
The fact is that Benz does void warranty successfully in the USA. They are able to do this because they can claim that they give owners more than adequate choice - see listing - and it is easy for them to show where an oil fails to meet their requirements & that it is detrimental to their engines.
Most products that fail their testing regime fail in one or another key performance area that has no alignment with API. e.g. HTHS. It is very easy to demonstrate that a product fails HTHS & will result in accelerated wear of the valvetrain.
I would be fascinated to hear if you have an example of where Benz has had to reinstate a voided warranty due to legal action against them in the US.
You are talking API classifications. Benz is talking hard testing and approval. API is a self approval process with payment for the use of it's symbols.
The fact is that Benz does void warranty successfully in the USA. They are able to do this because they can claim that they give owners more than adequate choice - see listing - and it is easy for them to show where an oil fails to meet their requirements & that it is detrimental to their engines.
Most products that fail their testing regime fail in one or another key performance area that has no alignment with API. e.g. HTHS. It is very easy to demonstrate that a product fails HTHS & will result in accelerated wear of the valvetrain.
I would be fascinated to hear if you have an example of where Benz has had to reinstate a voided warranty due to legal action against them in the US.
#53
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10 E63, Sold -07 E63
With no disrespect to you and your background. Please provide proof that MB has voided warranties based on the DIRECT proof that the oil was cause due to it not having API or other requirements "printed", and or licensed. MB will and can void warranty, that is not the question. As I stated, MB can void your warranty for many things, but they MUST prove that it is the DIRECT cause of the failure. I too would be fascinated to see what you claim, then again, MB knows where their legal battle begins before they drag anything into legal territory. MB be would have a hard time proving other oils are not adequate for their engine, that is why MOST OILS are still able to legally print and legally recommend their brand, even if it's not in the manufactures list. BTW... I am only backing up the oils that I have used and done a advanced consumer level homework. I have no clue on the other brands practices and background. But I speak highly about Amsoil, Mobil 1, Lubro Moly, Pentosin, and a little bit of Castrol based on my experience with them.
Amsoil has a thing for debates because of it's lack of certifications, but NO company has ever proven them wrong in over the years since it was first to introduce syntethic oil. NO car maker has ever made a legal data proven bulletin denouncing Amsoil for its quality or it's claim. AMSOIL has never had to use it's own warranty based on a user having it's factory warranty voided because of it's oil. In my years that I have used Amsoil, I too have been skeptical so I kept on reading and doing my homework.
BTW. Most Mobil 1 "Synthetics" Sold here in the US are not 100% synthetic.
Again, I know most of you know more about OIL or the auto manufacturers themselves. But I know my rights as a consumer, no dealer will ever just tell me my warranty is void without certain proof, and I will not hesitate to to press them to give me all the angles of their results as my right. But after all that and it still proves that I was a at fault for using a part or liquid then so be it. I know when to accept defeat. I just want you guys to know.. I am not here to argue with you or claim I know better, actually when threads like this show up it encourages me to do more research. I guess my side of the fight here is the rights we have here in the US as consumers, where laws are screwed up as much as it's there to protect us.
Amsoil has a thing for debates because of it's lack of certifications, but NO company has ever proven them wrong in over the years since it was first to introduce syntethic oil. NO car maker has ever made a legal data proven bulletin denouncing Amsoil for its quality or it's claim. AMSOIL has never had to use it's own warranty based on a user having it's factory warranty voided because of it's oil. In my years that I have used Amsoil, I too have been skeptical so I kept on reading and doing my homework.
BTW. Most Mobil 1 "Synthetics" Sold here in the US are not 100% synthetic.
Again, I know most of you know more about OIL or the auto manufacturers themselves. But I know my rights as a consumer, no dealer will ever just tell me my warranty is void without certain proof, and I will not hesitate to to press them to give me all the angles of their results as my right. But after all that and it still proves that I was a at fault for using a part or liquid then so be it. I know when to accept defeat. I just want you guys to know.. I am not here to argue with you or claim I know better, actually when threads like this show up it encourages me to do more research. I guess my side of the fight here is the rights we have here in the US as consumers, where laws are screwed up as much as it's there to protect us.
#54
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10 E63, Sold -07 E63
MB sheet 229.51 approved oils; low ash long life
Mercedes pioneered this new spec for passenger cars with diesel engines with exhaust particulate filters, and gasoline engines, and longer service life than the 229.31 oils. The spec was introduced in 2005. Change intervals increased to 20,000 kilometers. Based on ACEA A3 B4 and C3.
Amsoil European Car Formula 5W-40
Anglomoil RoadMaster 500 API SM 10W-40
Aral SuperTronic 229.51 0W-40 LOW SAPS
Aral SuperTronic Diesel 229.51 0W-40 LOW SAPS
Bizol New Generation SAE 5W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol EDGE Formula RS SAE 0W-40 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol EDGE Turbodiesel SAE 0W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol Longtec Turbodiesel 0W-30 (229.51)
ELF Solaris LSX 5W-30
Fuchs TITAN GT1 229.51 SAE 5W-30 (first fill oil in OM 642)
megol Motorenoel New Generation SAE 5W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 (to become available in the USA on 15 May 2006)
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 Emission System Protection (Europe, from December 2005)
OMV BIXXOL special C3 SAE 5W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Pentosynth HC 5W-40 (added December 2007)
Shell Helix Ultra AX 5W-30 Mercedes 229.51
Sunoco Synturo Xenon SAE 5W30 (added 09 July 2007)
Valvoline SynPower MST 5W-30 229.51 (added 01 June 2006)
Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 229.51 (added November 2007)
Valvoline SynPower 20W-50 229.51 (added November 2007)
MB sheet 229.3 approved oils
for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain interval indicator FSS up to 20,000 km, or 40,000 km - 25,000 mi, current minimum spec for 1998+ MB engines, min. 1.0% fuel saving compared to 229.1, based on ACEA A3 B4. For gas engine of the M100 series, gas engines of the M200 series and diesel engines of the OM600 series (not models with diesel particulate filter).
AGIP EXTRA HTS 5W-40
AGIP Synthetic PC 0W-40
AGIP Eurosport 0W-40
Amsoil 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
Amsoil 10W-30 Synthetic
Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel
Aral HighTronic 5W-40
Aral SuperSynth 0W-40
Aral Super Tronic 0W-40
Aviasynth 0W-40
Castrol DCO TOPUP SAE 0W-30
Castrol Formula RS Road and Track 5W-40
Castrol GTX7 DYNATEC 5W-40
Castrol Formula SLX 0W-30
Castrol TXT SOFTEC PLUS 5W-30
CIFAB Synthoil Hydrocrack HC7 5W-40
Elf Excellium LDX SAE 5W-40
Esso Ultron 0W-30 (fuel economy)
Esso Ultron 5W-40
Fuchs Silkolene Pro S 5W-40 - 100% Synthetic Oil For All Race Engines
Fuchs Silkolene Pro S 10W-50 - 100% Synthetic Oil For All Race Engines
Fuchs Titan SuperSyn SL 0W-30
Havoline Synthetic DS 0W-30
Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic 5W-40
Liqui Moly Diesel Synthoil 5W-40
Liqui Moly High Tech 5W-40
Liqui Moly HC7 5W-40
LUKOIL SYNTEETIK 5W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-50
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40
Mobil Synt S 5W-40
Mobil Synt S Turbo Diesel 5W-40
Mobil Syst S 5W-40
Motul 8100 E-Tech 0W-40
Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40
Pennzoil Synthetic European Formulation 5W-40
Pentosin Pentospeed 0W-30 VS
Q8 Formula Excel 5W-40
Quaker State Full Synthetic European Formulation 5W-40
Schaeffer Micron Moly 5W-30, 10W-40
Schaeffer Supreme 7000 5W-30, 10W-30, 20W-50
76 Pure Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40
Shell Helix Plus S 5W-40 (Mercedes-Benz)
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40
Sunoco Synturo Gold 5W-40 (introduced January 2002)
Total FINA First 5W-40
Total Quartz 9000 5W-40
Valvoline DuraBlend MXL 5W-40
Valvoline SynPower MXL 0W-30
Valvoline SynPower 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40, 20W-50
Veedol POWERTRON 5W-30
Veedol SYNTRON 0W-30
Mercedes pioneered this new spec for passenger cars with diesel engines with exhaust particulate filters, and gasoline engines, and longer service life than the 229.31 oils. The spec was introduced in 2005. Change intervals increased to 20,000 kilometers. Based on ACEA A3 B4 and C3.
Amsoil European Car Formula 5W-40
Anglomoil RoadMaster 500 API SM 10W-40
Aral SuperTronic 229.51 0W-40 LOW SAPS
Aral SuperTronic Diesel 229.51 0W-40 LOW SAPS
Bizol New Generation SAE 5W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol EDGE Formula RS SAE 0W-40 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol EDGE Turbodiesel SAE 0W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol Longtec Turbodiesel 0W-30 (229.51)
ELF Solaris LSX 5W-30
Fuchs TITAN GT1 229.51 SAE 5W-30 (first fill oil in OM 642)
megol Motorenoel New Generation SAE 5W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 (to become available in the USA on 15 May 2006)
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 Emission System Protection (Europe, from December 2005)
OMV BIXXOL special C3 SAE 5W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Pentosynth HC 5W-40 (added December 2007)
Shell Helix Ultra AX 5W-30 Mercedes 229.51
Sunoco Synturo Xenon SAE 5W30 (added 09 July 2007)
Valvoline SynPower MST 5W-30 229.51 (added 01 June 2006)
Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 229.51 (added November 2007)
Valvoline SynPower 20W-50 229.51 (added November 2007)
MB sheet 229.3 approved oils
for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain interval indicator FSS up to 20,000 km, or 40,000 km - 25,000 mi, current minimum spec for 1998+ MB engines, min. 1.0% fuel saving compared to 229.1, based on ACEA A3 B4. For gas engine of the M100 series, gas engines of the M200 series and diesel engines of the OM600 series (not models with diesel particulate filter).
AGIP EXTRA HTS 5W-40
AGIP Synthetic PC 0W-40
AGIP Eurosport 0W-40
Amsoil 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
Amsoil 10W-30 Synthetic
Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel
Aral HighTronic 5W-40
Aral SuperSynth 0W-40
Aral Super Tronic 0W-40
Aviasynth 0W-40
Castrol DCO TOPUP SAE 0W-30
Castrol Formula RS Road and Track 5W-40
Castrol GTX7 DYNATEC 5W-40
Castrol Formula SLX 0W-30
Castrol TXT SOFTEC PLUS 5W-30
CIFAB Synthoil Hydrocrack HC7 5W-40
Elf Excellium LDX SAE 5W-40
Esso Ultron 0W-30 (fuel economy)
Esso Ultron 5W-40
Fuchs Silkolene Pro S 5W-40 - 100% Synthetic Oil For All Race Engines
Fuchs Silkolene Pro S 10W-50 - 100% Synthetic Oil For All Race Engines
Fuchs Titan SuperSyn SL 0W-30
Havoline Synthetic DS 0W-30
Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic 5W-40
Liqui Moly Diesel Synthoil 5W-40
Liqui Moly High Tech 5W-40
Liqui Moly HC7 5W-40
LUKOIL SYNTEETIK 5W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-50
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40
Mobil Synt S 5W-40
Mobil Synt S Turbo Diesel 5W-40
Mobil Syst S 5W-40
Motul 8100 E-Tech 0W-40
Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40
Pennzoil Synthetic European Formulation 5W-40
Pentosin Pentospeed 0W-30 VS
Q8 Formula Excel 5W-40
Quaker State Full Synthetic European Formulation 5W-40
Schaeffer Micron Moly 5W-30, 10W-40
Schaeffer Supreme 7000 5W-30, 10W-30, 20W-50
76 Pure Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40
Shell Helix Plus S 5W-40 (Mercedes-Benz)
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40
Sunoco Synturo Gold 5W-40 (introduced January 2002)
Total FINA First 5W-40
Total Quartz 9000 5W-40
Valvoline DuraBlend MXL 5W-40
Valvoline SynPower MXL 0W-30
Valvoline SynPower 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40, 20W-50
Veedol POWERTRON 5W-30
Veedol SYNTRON 0W-30
#55
Couldn't agree with you more.
Not to mention how put off I am by their direct marketing strategies. Those who support Amsoil seem to have the same cult-vigor as the kool-aid chugging inhabitants of Jonestown.
They could make a great oil, but I'll never know because I won't use it for the reasons stated above.
Not to mention how put off I am by their direct marketing strategies. Those who support Amsoil seem to have the same cult-vigor as the kool-aid chugging inhabitants of Jonestown.
They could make a great oil, but I'll never know because I won't use it for the reasons stated above.
#56
Super Moderator
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MB sheet 229.51 approved oils; low ash long life
Mercedes pioneered this new spec for passenger cars with diesel engines with exhaust particulate filters, and gasoline engines, and longer service life than the 229.31 oils. The spec was introduced in 2005. Change intervals increased to 20,000 kilometers. Based on ACEA A3 B4 and C3.
Amsoil European Car Formula 5W-40
Anglomoil RoadMaster 500 API SM 10W-40
Aral SuperTronic 229.51 0W-40 LOW SAPS
Aral SuperTronic Diesel 229.51 0W-40 LOW SAPS
Bizol New Generation SAE 5W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol EDGE Formula RS SAE 0W-40 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol EDGE Turbodiesel SAE 0W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol Longtec Turbodiesel 0W-30 (229.51)
ELF Solaris LSX 5W-30
Fuchs TITAN GT1 229.51 SAE 5W-30 (first fill oil in OM 642)
megol Motorenoel New Generation SAE 5W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 (to become available in the USA on 15 May 2006)
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 Emission System Protection (Europe, from December 2005)
OMV BIXXOL special C3 SAE 5W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Pentosynth HC 5W-40 (added December 2007)
Shell Helix Ultra AX 5W-30 Mercedes 229.51
Sunoco Synturo Xenon SAE 5W30 (added 09 July 2007)
Valvoline SynPower MST 5W-30 229.51 (added 01 June 2006)
Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 229.51 (added November 2007)
Valvoline SynPower 20W-50 229.51 (added November 2007)
MB sheet 229.3 approved oils
for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain interval indicator FSS up to 20,000 km, or 40,000 km - 25,000 mi, current minimum spec for 1998+ MB engines, min. 1.0% fuel saving compared to 229.1, based on ACEA A3 B4. For gas engine of the M100 series, gas engines of the M200 series and diesel engines of the OM600 series (not models with diesel particulate filter).
AGIP EXTRA HTS 5W-40
AGIP Synthetic PC 0W-40
AGIP Eurosport 0W-40
Amsoil 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
Amsoil 10W-30 Synthetic
Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel
Aral HighTronic 5W-40
Aral SuperSynth 0W-40
Aral Super Tronic 0W-40
Aviasynth 0W-40
Castrol DCO TOPUP SAE 0W-30
Castrol Formula RS Road and Track 5W-40
Castrol GTX7 DYNATEC 5W-40
Castrol Formula SLX 0W-30
Castrol TXT SOFTEC PLUS 5W-30
CIFAB Synthoil Hydrocrack HC7 5W-40
Elf Excellium LDX SAE 5W-40
Esso Ultron 0W-30 (fuel economy)
Esso Ultron 5W-40
Fuchs Silkolene Pro S 5W-40 - 100% Synthetic Oil For All Race Engines
Fuchs Silkolene Pro S 10W-50 - 100% Synthetic Oil For All Race Engines
Fuchs Titan SuperSyn SL 0W-30
Havoline Synthetic DS 0W-30
Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic 5W-40
Liqui Moly Diesel Synthoil 5W-40
Liqui Moly High Tech 5W-40
Liqui Moly HC7 5W-40
LUKOIL SYNTEETIK 5W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-50
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40
Mobil Synt S 5W-40
Mobil Synt S Turbo Diesel 5W-40
Mobil Syst S 5W-40
Motul 8100 E-Tech 0W-40
Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40
Pennzoil Synthetic European Formulation 5W-40
Pentosin Pentospeed 0W-30 VS
Q8 Formula Excel 5W-40
Quaker State Full Synthetic European Formulation 5W-40
Schaeffer Micron Moly 5W-30, 10W-40
Schaeffer Supreme 7000 5W-30, 10W-30, 20W-50
76 Pure Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40
Shell Helix Plus S 5W-40 (Mercedes-Benz)
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40
Sunoco Synturo Gold 5W-40 (introduced January 2002)
Total FINA First 5W-40
Total Quartz 9000 5W-40
Valvoline DuraBlend MXL 5W-40
Valvoline SynPower MXL 0W-30
Valvoline SynPower 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40, 20W-50
Veedol POWERTRON 5W-30
Veedol SYNTRON 0W-30
Mercedes pioneered this new spec for passenger cars with diesel engines with exhaust particulate filters, and gasoline engines, and longer service life than the 229.31 oils. The spec was introduced in 2005. Change intervals increased to 20,000 kilometers. Based on ACEA A3 B4 and C3.
Amsoil European Car Formula 5W-40
Anglomoil RoadMaster 500 API SM 10W-40
Aral SuperTronic 229.51 0W-40 LOW SAPS
Aral SuperTronic Diesel 229.51 0W-40 LOW SAPS
Bizol New Generation SAE 5W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol EDGE Formula RS SAE 0W-40 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol EDGE Turbodiesel SAE 0W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Castrol Longtec Turbodiesel 0W-30 (229.51)
ELF Solaris LSX 5W-30
Fuchs TITAN GT1 229.51 SAE 5W-30 (first fill oil in OM 642)
megol Motorenoel New Generation SAE 5W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 (to become available in the USA on 15 May 2006)
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 Emission System Protection (Europe, from December 2005)
OMV BIXXOL special C3 SAE 5W-30 (added 09 July 2007)
Pentosynth HC 5W-40 (added December 2007)
Shell Helix Ultra AX 5W-30 Mercedes 229.51
Sunoco Synturo Xenon SAE 5W30 (added 09 July 2007)
Valvoline SynPower MST 5W-30 229.51 (added 01 June 2006)
Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 229.51 (added November 2007)
Valvoline SynPower 20W-50 229.51 (added November 2007)
MB sheet 229.3 approved oils
for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain interval indicator FSS up to 20,000 km, or 40,000 km - 25,000 mi, current minimum spec for 1998+ MB engines, min. 1.0% fuel saving compared to 229.1, based on ACEA A3 B4. For gas engine of the M100 series, gas engines of the M200 series and diesel engines of the OM600 series (not models with diesel particulate filter).
AGIP EXTRA HTS 5W-40
AGIP Synthetic PC 0W-40
AGIP Eurosport 0W-40
Amsoil 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
Amsoil 10W-30 Synthetic
Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel
Aral HighTronic 5W-40
Aral SuperSynth 0W-40
Aral Super Tronic 0W-40
Aviasynth 0W-40
Castrol DCO TOPUP SAE 0W-30
Castrol Formula RS Road and Track 5W-40
Castrol GTX7 DYNATEC 5W-40
Castrol Formula SLX 0W-30
Castrol TXT SOFTEC PLUS 5W-30
CIFAB Synthoil Hydrocrack HC7 5W-40
Elf Excellium LDX SAE 5W-40
Esso Ultron 0W-30 (fuel economy)
Esso Ultron 5W-40
Fuchs Silkolene Pro S 5W-40 - 100% Synthetic Oil For All Race Engines
Fuchs Silkolene Pro S 10W-50 - 100% Synthetic Oil For All Race Engines
Fuchs Titan SuperSyn SL 0W-30
Havoline Synthetic DS 0W-30
Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic 5W-40
Liqui Moly Diesel Synthoil 5W-40
Liqui Moly High Tech 5W-40
Liqui Moly HC7 5W-40
LUKOIL SYNTEETIK 5W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-50
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40
Mobil Synt S 5W-40
Mobil Synt S Turbo Diesel 5W-40
Mobil Syst S 5W-40
Motul 8100 E-Tech 0W-40
Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40
Pennzoil Synthetic European Formulation 5W-40
Pentosin Pentospeed 0W-30 VS
Q8 Formula Excel 5W-40
Quaker State Full Synthetic European Formulation 5W-40
Schaeffer Micron Moly 5W-30, 10W-40
Schaeffer Supreme 7000 5W-30, 10W-30, 20W-50
76 Pure Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40
Shell Helix Plus S 5W-40 (Mercedes-Benz)
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40
Sunoco Synturo Gold 5W-40 (introduced January 2002)
Total FINA First 5W-40
Total Quartz 9000 5W-40
Valvoline DuraBlend MXL 5W-40
Valvoline SynPower MXL 0W-30
Valvoline SynPower 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40, 20W-50
Veedol POWERTRON 5W-30
Veedol SYNTRON 0W-30
What is all this crap about? 229.3 is an ancient spec & was superseded in 2004. 229.5 has been the spec for all gasoline engines since then. You are extremely confused. 229.51 is for diesel passenger car with Cat & particulate filter <0.8% ash. Don't you have the intellect to question why AMSOIL has no 229.5 approved product? It's very simple. They don't have one that meets the specs - 229.51 is a far easier spec to meet.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 04-17-2012 at 06:44 PM.
#57
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2011 C300 Sport, 2007 Nissan Titan Crew Cab
What is all this crap about? 229.3 is an ancient spec & was superseded in 2004. 229.5 has been the spec for all gasoline engines since then. You are extremely confused. 229.51 is for diesel passenger car with Cat & particulate filter <0.8% ash. Don't you have the intellect to question why AMSOIL has no 229.5 approved product? It's very simple. They don't have one that meet the specs - 229.51 is a far easier spec to meet.
#58
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10 E63, Sold -07 E63
What is all this crap about? 229.3 is an ancient spec & was superseded in 2004. 229.5 has been the spec for all gasoline engines since then. You are extremely confused. 229.51 is for diesel passenger car with Cat & particulate filter <0.8% ash. Don't you have the intellect to question why AMSOIL has no 229.5 approved product? It's very simple. They don't have one that meet the specs - 229.51 is a far easier spec to meet.
229.5 introduced 2002, 229.3 7/2003 and newest 229.51 2005. 229.5 also requires fleece filters.
#59
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With no disrespect to you and your background. Please provide proof that MB has voided warranties based on the DIRECT proof that the oil was cause due to it not having API or other requirements "printed", and or licensed. MB will and can void warranty, that is not the question. As I stated, MB can void your warranty for many things, but they MUST prove that it is the DIRECT cause of the failure. I too would be fascinated to see what you claim, then again, MB knows where their legal battle begins before they drag anything into legal territory. MB be would have a hard time proving other oils are not adequate for their engine, that is why MOST OILS are still able to legally print and legally recommend their brand, even if it's not in the manufactures list. BTW... I am only backing up the oils that I have used and done a advanced consumer level homework. I have no clue on the other brands practices and background. But I speak highly about Amsoil, Mobil 1, Lubro Moly, Pentosin, and a little bit of Castrol based on my experience with them.
Amsoil has a thing for debates because of it's lack of certifications, but NO company has ever proven them wrong in over the years since it was first to introduce syntethic oil. NO car maker has ever made a legal data proven bulletin denouncing Amsoil for its quality or it's claim. AMSOIL has never had to use it's own warranty based on a user having it's factory warranty voided because of it's oil. In my years that I have used Amsoil, I too have been skeptical so I kept on reading and doing my homework.
BTW. Most Mobil 1 "Synthetics" Sold here in the US are not 100% synthetic.
Again, I know most of you know more about OIL or the auto manufacturers themselves. But I know my rights as a consumer, no dealer will ever just tell me my warranty is void without certain proof, and I will not hesitate to to press them to give me all the angles of their results as my right. But after all that and it still proves that I was a at fault for using a part or liquid then so be it. I know when to accept defeat. I just want you guys to know.. I am not here to argue with you or claim I know better, actually when threads like this show up it encourages me to do more research. I guess my side of the fight here is the rights we have here in the US as consumers, where laws are screwed up as much as it's there to protect us.
Amsoil has a thing for debates because of it's lack of certifications, but NO company has ever proven them wrong in over the years since it was first to introduce syntethic oil. NO car maker has ever made a legal data proven bulletin denouncing Amsoil for its quality or it's claim. AMSOIL has never had to use it's own warranty based on a user having it's factory warranty voided because of it's oil. In my years that I have used Amsoil, I too have been skeptical so I kept on reading and doing my homework.
BTW. Most Mobil 1 "Synthetics" Sold here in the US are not 100% synthetic.
Again, I know most of you know more about OIL or the auto manufacturers themselves. But I know my rights as a consumer, no dealer will ever just tell me my warranty is void without certain proof, and I will not hesitate to to press them to give me all the angles of their results as my right. But after all that and it still proves that I was a at fault for using a part or liquid then so be it. I know when to accept defeat. I just want you guys to know.. I am not here to argue with you or claim I know better, actually when threads like this show up it encourages me to do more research. I guess my side of the fight here is the rights we have here in the US as consumers, where laws are screwed up as much as it's there to protect us.
Let's cover your spurious comments on some Mobil products not being 100% synthetic. I don't know why I'm defending the competition but we try to inform our members as best we can so a quote from the past that I've repeated many times as it affects all of the industry.
"Full synthetic or very high Group number base oils, GpIII & above have their downfalls. Additive miscibility steadily becomes more & more of an issue. i.e. the additive will not dissolve or disperse in the base oil.
So to achieve the desired performance we use the synthetic base fluid for the high VI, oxidation stability etc. properties it brings to the formulation while using a small proportion of petroleum base stock as a co-solvent to get the additives into the blend & stable.
100% synthetic is not always better - in fact far from it."
Regarding voiding of warranty - Don't get smart with me & try & turn the tables. You have failed to answer my question - namely "I would be fascinated to hear if you have an example of where Benz has had to reinstate a voided warranty due to legal action against them in the US."
During my time at our research facilities in the US I can think of 100's of cases of Benz voiding warranty due to failures while not using approved products as mandated. They used our forensic failure labs from time to time. They are not the only OEM to do so either. As I have mentioned before we had a new ML have it's engine warranty voided the other day. You can search for that. You have to understand that it is not that difficult to establish the failure mode.
Now - let's take the new 722.9 7G Tronic Plus transmission used from late 2010 by Benz in Blue Efficiency models etc. There is 1 approved genuine fluid at present developed jointly by Shell, Afton, and Fuchs. This is a highly advanced fluid with difficult base oil requirements. I suppose you think Benz should not void the warranty if they find some clown has put Dexron II into it
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FTC driven legislation is designed to be fair to both consumer & OEM.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 04-17-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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#61
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229.3 oils were developed earlier but launched main stream in 1998.
229.51 oils are primarily designed for diesel with Cat & particulate filter. They can be used in certain low tech non Mercedes petrol engines.
As said previously. Benz has mandated that no one product can meet 229.5 & 229.51. See my previous post on ash clamping levels.
229.5 was only factory fill from MY 2004.
Blown Polyester "fleece" filter is now only mandated for 6 cylinder and above gasoline engines. It is not for use in diesel & it's no longer required for M271 & derivatives.
229.51 oils are primarily designed for diesel with Cat & particulate filter. They can be used in certain low tech non Mercedes petrol engines.
As said previously. Benz has mandated that no one product can meet 229.5 & 229.51. See my previous post on ash clamping levels.
229.5 was only factory fill from MY 2004.
Blown Polyester "fleece" filter is now only mandated for 6 cylinder and above gasoline engines. It is not for use in diesel & it's no longer required for M271 & derivatives.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 04-17-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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.... I noticed on their website...they have listed other weights beside 5w-30 which was the recommended (Amsoil) weight for my car.
Facts:
A.J. Amatuzio, founder, President and CEO of AMSOIL states that he often hears other companies ad slogans stating that their products are the best. They are not. Mobil 1 has run the tag line for their advertising "nothing outperforms Mobil 1".
Facts:
A.J. Amatuzio, founder, President and CEO of AMSOIL states that he often hears other companies ad slogans stating that their products are the best. They are not. Mobil 1 has run the tag line for their advertising "nothing outperforms Mobil 1".
Many car MFG's now require that the oil be selected from a specified list, like 229.5 for Mercedes gas engines (not just Mobil1), or dexos2 for GM vehicles, preceeded by a list GM6094M in 2008.
No FACT here as you described.
Amatuzio also stated, "Mobil makes their oils to run at normal drain intervals while we make ours for extended drain intervals, and therein lies the difference. Their oils don't have to be as good as ours, so they are not."
(This would obviously make sense because with Mobil1 being a huge corporation, if they made oil that lasted long than it would obviously cut into their profits. So to me it's pretty black and white...quite frankly, common sense.)
(This would obviously make sense because with Mobil1 being a huge corporation, if they made oil that lasted long than it would obviously cut into their profits. So to me it's pretty black and white...quite frankly, common sense.)
A.J. - "To prove that point, we ran a number of comparative tests on our 5W-30 (ASL) and Mobil 1 5W-30. The test results are published in this Action News, and they confirm what I have said all along. AMSOIL makes a better motor oil.
(Basically the point here is very strong. Put your money where your mouth is and he did...I haven't been able to find Mobil1's counter on this...maybe because they can't? So far obviously so....)
(Basically the point here is very strong. Put your money where your mouth is and he did...I haven't been able to find Mobil1's counter on this...maybe because they can't? So far obviously so....)
A.J. - "Their test results show significant differences between our oils. Look at the results of the NOACK Volatility Test. Which oil is going to last longer in service? Look at the differences in total base numbers. Again, which oil is going to provide the longest lasting protection? Look at the Four Ball Wear Test. Which oil will protect against engine wear better? In every category we tested, AMSOIL proved superior. Lower pour point, higher flash and fire points, AMSOIL tested best"
(OK see now what I like about this is that there have been INDEPENDENT LABORATORY TESTS, not of their own to document the facts.)
(OK see now what I like about this is that there have been INDEPENDENT LABORATORY TESTS, not of their own to document the facts.)
Mobil1 5W30 is not Mobil1's best product.
A.J. - "So when I hear claims that nothing outperforms Mobil 1, I have to say, "wrong"! They may have good slogans and marketing hype, but when it comes to superior performance, I say nothing beats AMSOIL!"
(Very bold statement and he can obviously back it up...again where is Mobil1 countering this? Nowhere because I don't think they can....well they can't from the facts so far...)
(Very bold statement and he can obviously back it up...again where is Mobil1 countering this? Nowhere because I don't think they can....well they can't from the facts so far...)
A.J. - "Once again, you always get more more value when you buy AMSOIL lubricants. These and many other tests prove it"
(Where are Mobil1's test to disapprove it? ....no where to be found.... interesting... so how would you justify that? My dog ate the paper that had the counter claim? Really... If Mobil1 knows of this where is the counter attack with facts?)
(Where are Mobil1's test to disapprove it? ....no where to be found.... interesting... so how would you justify that? My dog ate the paper that had the counter claim? Really... If Mobil1 knows of this where is the counter attack with facts?)
A.J. - "Anyone that has requested one of my comprehensive AMSOIL information packets will receive AMSOIL product and technical data that clearly shows this test data, which was performed by an independent ASTM and ISO certified test lab"
(He's providing his claim so where is Mobil1's test to prove Amsoil wrong? Once again...independent lab...very important.)
(He's providing his claim so where is Mobil1's test to prove Amsoil wrong? Once again...independent lab...very important.)
Source: Action News Magazine; some of the content in the magazine [http://www.alternative-energy-resour.../mobil-1.html]
My take on all this:
In my opinion, it's silly to get all crazy about which oil is best for those who are going to change their oil every xx,xxx amount of miles anyway. If Mobil1 is on sale then I'll buy it because I know I'll change my oil again when it comes time to do so. However, for those who like the nitty gritty stuff, like me as well, it's entertaining to find facts to support ones claim like Amsoil did. There are people who want absolutely the best and I'm one of them. See if you have a choice, that's great! Just choose what you prefer, whatever floats your boat. I look at it as, "if you can have the best...why not?" Of course there are factors like cost and convenience so the reasons will differ for everyone.
In my opinion, it's silly to get all crazy about which oil is best for those who are going to change their oil every xx,xxx amount of miles anyway. If Mobil1 is on sale then I'll buy it because I know I'll change my oil again when it comes time to do so. However, for those who like the nitty gritty stuff, like me as well, it's entertaining to find facts to support ones claim like Amsoil did. There are people who want absolutely the best and I'm one of them. See if you have a choice, that's great! Just choose what you prefer, whatever floats your boat. I look at it as, "if you can have the best...why not?" Of course there are factors like cost and convenience so the reasons will differ for everyone.
IMO, it's obvious with Mobil1 being a large corporation (with it's papa being Exxon, even larger) its common sense that they would do whatever is necessary to increase profit margin to make the most money possible. The marketing strategy is also different between the two, while Amsoil chooses to remain small by going direct with distributors (smart) Mobil1 goes with the huge corporate conglomerates for there distribution. I also believe, although Amsoil is a smaller company, the reason they exist is because they have proved to out preform Mobil1 and Mobil1 has yet to say anything to counter claim...well anything. So if Mobil1 has all this money with it being a huge corporation, why haven't they done so? It's clear folks, because maybe they know they can't win against a head to head battle. Now is this to say that Mobil1 is bad? Heck no, you and I both know that they have more than enough money to put into R&D to develop a better, longer lasting oil than it's current Mobil1. But, why in the world would they do that? It would kill their profits as a company. So the bottom line, there are such things as bad oil companies and good oil companies. Both Mobil1 and Amsoil are obviously good so I'll use whatever is cheapest when it comes time to change diapers because they'll both do the job. However, if one wants to argue which oil is best and if cost isn't a factor...which I wouldn't think it would be if you're driving a MB....but anyway.... than obviously AMSOIL is a better oil than Mobil1. [/QUOTE]
Bunch of hypothetical dribble. It's up to Amsoil to go through the approval process, and they chose not to ... hypothisise on that.
..all good, but what isn't all good is when silly people get all caught up in that Mobil1 is the ONLY oil to use just because of a silly sticker located in their engine bay is very comedic to me.
I respect Amsoil. I first used their grease back in the 80's, to avoid front wheel bearing grease from "boiling" out a small hole in a hole in the grease cap, when tracking the car on road course with a fast long strait followed by a hard right at aabout 45 mph.
Back then they mostly sold to 18 wheelers, and farm machinery that ran flat out all the time.
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Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 04-17-2012 at 09:39 PM.
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I'm happily retired but still consulting. Job preservation is not an issue - not that it ever was.
#65
I have spent considerable time researching oil and talking to various people in the industry. What Glyn has said is spot on. Listen to him and be glad he is here to provide us with this information.
Amsoil has a few nice oils, but I would not put them above Mobil 1.
Amsoil uses to many marketing gimmicks for my taste.
4 ball wear test is a gear oil test.
Amsoil has a few nice oils, but I would not put them above Mobil 1.
Amsoil uses to many marketing gimmicks for my taste.
4 ball wear test is a gear oil test.
#66
ExxonMobil owns Infineum along with Shell. ExxonMobil also is a leading producer of the world’s best base oils. Amsoil is actually a customer of theirs. Mobil 1 is their flagship product and always among the top oils on the market. The 4 ball test is an example of slick marketing. The test has no real world validity to how an oil behaves in an actual engine. This is why expensive engine sequence testing is done. For example –ASTM SEGIIIG and IVA.
Engine Oil Performance Testing
"I have seen a number of lubricant manufacturers refer to the 4-ball wear scar test as an indicator of how well the oil will protect an engine. Other larger companies tend to brush off the results of this test indicating that it isn't representative of actual engine conditions adding that because it is cheap to run, the results aren't worth much. What are your thoughts on this?"
The 4-ball test (ASTM D4172) is often used as a screening test for many different lubricant types that contain antiwear additives or similar base oil properties. Other tribo-mechanical bench tests are often used as well, including the Timken Test (ASTM D2782) and the Pin and V-Block (ASTM D2670). Because engines have different contact geometry, loads, metallurgy and speeds, numerous bench tests and test protocols are needed. It is not uncommon for several oils to be tested using two such methods and to find that the performance rankings between the oils to reverse (no correlation). This is why, among other reasons, Passenger Car Motor Oils and Heavy Duty Oils (diesel crankcase) are tested in actual engines using controlled methods such as ASTM D5533 Sequence IIIE and D5302 Sequence VE.
Jim Fitch, Noria Corporation"
Engine Oil Performance Testing
"I have seen a number of lubricant manufacturers refer to the 4-ball wear scar test as an indicator of how well the oil will protect an engine. Other larger companies tend to brush off the results of this test indicating that it isn't representative of actual engine conditions adding that because it is cheap to run, the results aren't worth much. What are your thoughts on this?"
The 4-ball test (ASTM D4172) is often used as a screening test for many different lubricant types that contain antiwear additives or similar base oil properties. Other tribo-mechanical bench tests are often used as well, including the Timken Test (ASTM D2782) and the Pin and V-Block (ASTM D2670). Because engines have different contact geometry, loads, metallurgy and speeds, numerous bench tests and test protocols are needed. It is not uncommon for several oils to be tested using two such methods and to find that the performance rankings between the oils to reverse (no correlation). This is why, among other reasons, Passenger Car Motor Oils and Heavy Duty Oils (diesel crankcase) are tested in actual engines using controlled methods such as ASTM D5533 Sequence IIIE and D5302 Sequence VE.
Jim Fitch, Noria Corporation"
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On a lighter note, I don't think there will be any other posts regarding approved oils since you all (especially Glyn) scared off anyone doubting MB's approved oil list.
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Last edited by Domm; 04-17-2012 at 06:14 PM.
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My last 3 cars used different synthetic oil in all. Castrol syntech., Mobil 1, and royal purple(which i liked very much). Royal Purple not an approved 229.5 oil. Call me crazy My benz won't see it. And i get a good deal on RP.
Just an opinion. I know my motor will run well with the mobil 1 0w-40 i use. for the everyday owner that's all they need to know.
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#70
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ExxonMobil owns Infineum along with Shell. ExxonMobil also is a leading producer of the world’s best base oils. Amsoil is actually a customer of theirs. Mobil 1 is their flagship product and always among the top oils on the market. The 4 ball test is an example of slick marketing. The test has no real world validity to how an oil behaves in an actual engine. This is why expensive engine sequence testing is done. For example –ASTM SEGIIIG and IVA.
Engine Oil Performance Testing
"I have seen a number of lubricant manufacturers refer to the 4-ball wear scar test as an indicator of how well the oil will protect an engine. Other larger companies tend to brush off the results of this test indicating that it isn't representative of actual engine conditions adding that because it is cheap to run, the results aren't worth much. What are your thoughts on this?"
The 4-ball test (ASTM D4172) is often used as a screening test for many different lubricant types that contain antiwear additives or similar base oil properties. Other tribo-mechanical bench tests are often used as well, including the Timken Test (ASTM D2782) and the Pin and V-Block (ASTM D2670). Because engines have different contact geometry, loads, metallurgy and speeds, numerous bench tests and test protocols are needed. It is not uncommon for several oils to be tested using two such methods and to find that the performance rankings between the oils to reverse (no correlation). This is why, among other reasons, Passenger Car Motor Oils and Heavy Duty Oils (diesel crankcase) are tested in actual engines using controlled methods such as ASTM D5533 Sequence IIIE and D5302 Sequence VE.
Jim Fitch, Noria Corporation"
Engine Oil Performance Testing
"I have seen a number of lubricant manufacturers refer to the 4-ball wear scar test as an indicator of how well the oil will protect an engine. Other larger companies tend to brush off the results of this test indicating that it isn't representative of actual engine conditions adding that because it is cheap to run, the results aren't worth much. What are your thoughts on this?"
The 4-ball test (ASTM D4172) is often used as a screening test for many different lubricant types that contain antiwear additives or similar base oil properties. Other tribo-mechanical bench tests are often used as well, including the Timken Test (ASTM D2782) and the Pin and V-Block (ASTM D2670). Because engines have different contact geometry, loads, metallurgy and speeds, numerous bench tests and test protocols are needed. It is not uncommon for several oils to be tested using two such methods and to find that the performance rankings between the oils to reverse (no correlation). This is why, among other reasons, Passenger Car Motor Oils and Heavy Duty Oils (diesel crankcase) are tested in actual engines using controlled methods such as ASTM D5533 Sequence IIIE and D5302 Sequence VE.
Jim Fitch, Noria Corporation"
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I don't know, I heard about this Snake Oil stuff that is supposed to be better than all the rest. I may have to try it out even though it's not on the list. They even have a new Super Snake Formula that looks pretty awesome in the ads....
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Haha
...that's hilarious. Well buddy I think you're wrong because I just changed my oil a few days ago with Mobil1 because it was on sale. Next time who knows if Amsoil is cheaper than who knows...
Sorry you thought wrong. Actually very wrong.
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Sorry you thought wrong. Actually very wrong.