iunlock

Originally: I was just curious if any fellow W204 owners used 5w-30 or 0w-40 Amsoil?

How long their intervals were between changes?
How I changed my oil about every 15,000 miles
How my driving habits were about 50/50
How the average temp where I live is 85F and how my car will never see snow...

That I noticed on their website: http://www.amsoil.com/mygarage/Produ...%20BENZ+C350+W
...they have listed other weights beside 5w-30 which was the recommended weight for my car.

Then as this post got thrown way off topic by the few, it made me curious...

For the record I had originally asked if there were other Amsoil users because it just so happened to be the oil I've been using for years in several of my cars. I also wanted to get some feedback on how it was for them in their W204's...

Facts:
Mobil1 is a large corporation. A much bigger company size wise than Amsoil.
Amsoil was the first full synthetic and Mobil1 debuted years later.
Mobil confirmed everything Amsoil had been saying about their synthetic oils, and Amsoil products and claims instantly became more credible.

A.J. Amatuzio, founder, President and CEO of AMSOIL states that he often hears other companies ad slogans stating that their products are the best. They are not. Mobil 1 has run the tag line for their advertising "nothing outperforms Mobil 1".

Amatuzio also stated, "Mobil makes their oils to run at normal drain intervals while we make ours for extended drain intervals, and therein lies the difference. Their oils don't have to be as good as ours, so they are not."
(This would obviously make sense because with Mobil1 being a huge corporation, if they made oil that lasted long than it would obviously cut into their profits. So to me it's pretty black and white...quite frankly, common sense.)

A.J. - "To prove that point, we ran a number of comparative tests on our 5W-30 (ASL) and Mobil 1 5W-30. The test results are published in this Action News, and they confirm what I have said all along. AMSOIL makes a better motor oil.
(Basically the point here is very strong. Put your money where your mouth is and he did...I haven't been able to find Mobil1's counter on this...maybe because they can't? So far obviously so....)

A.J. - "Their test results show significant differences between our oils. Look at the results of the NOACK Volatility Test. Which oil is going to last longer in service? Look at the differences in total base numbers. Again, which oil is going to provide the longest lasting protection? Look at the Four Ball Wear Test. Which oil will protect against engine wear better? In every category we tested, AMSOIL proved superior. Lower pour point, higher flash and fire points, AMSOIL tested best"
(OK see now what I like about this is that there have been INDEPENDENT LABORATORY TESTS, not of their own to document the facts.)

A.J. - "So when I hear claims that nothing outperforms Mobil 1, I have to say, "wrong"! They may have good slogans and marketing hype, but when it comes to superior performance, I say nothing beats AMSOIL!"
(Very bold statement and he can obviously back it up...again where is Mobil1 countering this? Nowhere because I don't think they can....well they can't from the facts so far...)

A.J. - "Once again, you always get more more value when you buy AMSOIL lubricants. These and many other tests prove it"
(Where are Mobil1's test to disapprove it? ....no where to be found.... interesting... so how would you justify that? My dog ate the paper that had the counter claim? Really... If Mobil1 knows of this where is the counter attack with facts?)

A.J. - "Anyone that has requested one of my comprehensive AMSOIL information packets will receive AMSOIL product and technical data that clearly shows this test data, which was performed by an independent ASTM and ISO certified test lab"
(He's providing his claim so where is Mobil1's test to prove Amsoil wrong? Once again...independent lab...very important.)


Source: Action News Magazine; some of the content in the magazine [http://www.alternative-energy-resour.../mobil-1.html]


My take on all this:
In my opinion, it's silly to get all crazy about which oil is best for those who are going to change their oil every xx,xxx amount of miles anyway. If Mobil1 is on sale then I'll buy it because I know I'll change my oil again when it comes time to do so. However, for those who like the nitty gritty stuff, like me as well, it's entertaining to find facts to support ones claim like Amsoil did. There are people who want absolutely the best and I'm one of them. See if you have a choice, that's great! Just choose what you prefer, whatever floats your boat. I look at it as, "if you can have the best...why not?" Of course there are factors like cost and convenience so the reasons will differ for everyone.

IMO, it's obvious with Mobil1 being a large corporation (with it's papa being Exxon, even larger) its common sense that they would do whatever is necessary to increase profit margin to make the most money possible. The marketing strategy is also different between the two, while Amsoil chooses to remain small by going direct with distributors (smart) Mobil1 goes with the huge corporate conglomerates for there distribution. I also believe, although Amsoil is a smaller company, the reason they exist is because they have proved to out preform Mobil1 and Mobil1 has yet to say anything to counter claim...well anything. So if Mobil1 has all this money with it being a huge corporation, why haven't they done so? It's clear folks, because maybe they know they can't win against a head to head battle. Now is this to say that Mobil1 is bad? Heck no, you and I both know that they have more than enough money to put into R&D to develop a better, longer lasting oil than it's current Mobil1. But, why in the world would they do that? It would kill their profits as a company. So the bottom line, there are such things as bad oil companies and good oil companies. Both Mobil1 and Amsoil are obviously good so I'll use whatever is cheapest when it comes time to change diapers because they'll both do the job. However, if one wants to argue which oil is best and if cost isn't a factor...which I wouldn't think it would be if you're driving a MB....but anyway.... than obviously AMSOIL is a better oil than Mobil1.

The only reason that AMSOIL has continued to grow and prosper competing with large corporations like Mobil is that AMSOIL products have consistently performed better.

On the other hand it makes sense that Mobil1 would collaborate with MB and other companies to create a marketing hype to increase profits....it's just business....all good, but what isn't all good is when silly people get all caught up in that Mobil1 is the ONLY oil to use just because of a silly sticker located in their engine bay is very comedic to me.

Domm

I'm not sure if anyone here strays from the recommended Mobil1 0w-40. Synthetics these days have extended lives and Mobil1 0w-40 has a interval of every 12,000-15,000 miles. Not so sure about 5w-30 Amsoil, but if its synthetic, it should be along the lines of 10,000-15,000 miles.

iunlock

Thanks for the reply. For hotter climates 5w-30 as stated on amsoils website should be good ya? Isn't the 0w-40 weight for Turbo, hotter running engines? As for the oil filter, OEM or Mann?

Domm

I have a V6 non-turbo and its recommended to use Mobil1 0w-40 regardless of temperature. I can't say for sure that 5w-30 would be good or bad for your engine, but 0w-40 is what most european vehicles use including porsche. As for the oil filter, Mann filters are OEM.

iunlock

Interesting. So regardless of what Amsoil lists on their website 5w-30 and 5w-40, just disregard those and go with 0w-40?

I'm all up for it...now I'm just curious why Amsoil would put 5w-30 for the North American C350's as the first listing?

Here's exactly what they have on the website:

Engine Oil
Grade 1......SEO[1]Performance Synthetic 5W-30 European Oil (AELQT)
Performance AMSOIL European Car Formula 100% Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil (AFLQT)
All TEMPS......0W-30, 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40, 5W-50

It's interesting how they list all the rest below....

Which oil, which oil....hhmmm

Glyn M Ruck

Amsoil does not have an approved product!

iunlock

That's quite interesting....

I've used Amsoil on all my cars and it's done extremely well. The guy I purchase it from is a major car / racing enthusiasts and it was because of him I became so loyal to Amsoil after seeing all the test results (oil analysis) ; that he personally had done from two labs in North America. There were several samples from his Porsche, Corvette and his sons mini drag car.

Although not approved, that doesn't mean necessarily un compatible...well obviously

So I'm still curious and am waiting to hear from those who do use Amsoil and what weight they use...

DonjuanOriginal

+1
if you don't wanna pay for Mobil1 0w40. Use Mobil1 5w40 without ESP. Much cheaper. If you can find it off the shelf. some dealers use 5w40 for warm weather regions.
In every forum people wanna bend the oil curve. Stick to stock recommended. MB-Approval 229.5 Mobil 1 0w-40

Glyn M Ruck

Does not need to be Mobil 1 but it is the most commonly available.

Any of the following will do.

https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...l-listing.html

Glyn M Ruck

Amsoil's technical comparisons are bogus & misleading.

iunlock

According to what supporting fact and evidence to prove your statement?

I'm open to any brand of good quality oil...probably will end up buying Mobile 1 0w-40 if not Amsoil 0w-40...either way

itsLoonie

Mobil oil is on sale at oreilly auto parts. Their sale ad has the 29.99 for a 5QT jug but if you ring up the quarts, it comes out to be 5.99 per quart. Sale ends 5/15 just to let you guys know

pnoyworx

Certified or Approved is just a piece of paper that cost a lot of money. Amsoil products have passed all the test and have exceeded the requirements. The only thing Amsoil will not do is pay for the certification and or approval seals. Also auto makers can not deny you service for using such oil, but must provide proof that the oil used was the cause of the damage. It's your call if you want to use the such product. I have used Amsoil for along time, and have seen with my own eyes and experience that Amsoil does what it claims.

If you want to check out a fraud.. look at REDLINE oils.

http://www.amsoil.com/magnuson_moss.aspx

iunlock

Well said. Thanks for your input. I too have used Amsoil for a long long time on all my cars and it's done very well.

REDLINE was a nightmare. I remember that.

iunlock

Nice! I'll check out my local Oreilly's tomorrow to see if our region has the sale too...if so, heck why not...if not I'll just go pick up some Amsoil.

Bravo..thx for the info ..

Cheers.

Glyn M Ruck

You can do what you like with your own car. Don't encourage others to do so. This forum strives to give members the best advice possible.

Read this to save me repeating myself. Especially post #26:

https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...ghlight=Amsoil

BTW - A Benz approval is far more than an expensive piece of paper. All Service products are exhaustively tested in actual Benz engines as an example & the program costs Benz a fortune annually to protect it's customers & their vehicles. I have actually seen candidate engine oils, from a company that shall remain nameless, attack bearing shells in the Benz laboratories. Oil is not just oil.

Domm

What i'm curious about is that you've seen the labs from Amsoil but not Mobil1. How can you speculate that MB is simply full of crap for sticking with Mobil 1 if you've never seen the results. And if the sticker is a marketing ploy, wouldn't other car companies such as Toyota and Honda want to get in on it since they are the biggest players in the car world.

If you want to use Amsoil, its entirely up to you and if you've seen these amazing results on OTHER cars then by all means, continue using it. We, as members of this forum, only try to provide beneficial advice when asked and its entirely up to you on whether you want to listen to it or not. I have to agree with the moderator that by saying Mercedes is simply being paid to market Mobil1 is confusing all members of this forum. If Amsoil has indeed passed all the tests and EXCEEDED requirements, then paying for certification/approval is the next thing to do because that will boost their sales/profit significantly.

As stated, Amsoil is not an approved product so use at your own risk. If you think its better than the recommended brand, go for it.

pnoyworx

Many of you have to read up on how these things are marketed and how cars makers make these such "recommendations" BMW, AUDI, BENZ recommend all different brand names, only thing they do the same is TEST ON ONE BRAND hence the recommendation and brand stamping. NOT using Mobil 1 on your Benz WILL NOT VOID your warrantee. Using a non API certified oil WILL NOT VOID YOUR WARRANTEE.

http://www.amsoil.com/news/2008_worr...warranties.pdf
http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/api_licensing.htm


Just do a search... there are many many information on why there are other oils that out perform the well known brands.

MOBIL 1, Castrol, Lubro Moly, Amsoil ect.. are all good companies and would perform very well in normal environments. Just know that warrantee's and car makers will have to do a whole lot to prove that it was your oil's fault, "Certified or Approved".

iunlock

"Encourage others to do whaaaaat?" It shows you're clearly misinterpreting this whole thing. I'm not encouraging anything. I am simply asking a question and wanting feedback to see what other fellow MB owners have to say to exercise options based on real world experiences by MB owners. Isn't that what forums are for?

If anything, your last post with your biased remark backed up by "nothing," would be encouraging people in the sense of not to use Amsoil.

Please provide useful information if you're going to comment and not steer things off track.

iunlock

Why would that make you curious? It's simple. Because I haven't seen lab tests from Mobil1. Is that hard to comprehend?

How did I speculate that MB was full of crap? When? You're terribly confused. (Maybe your comment in the same paragraph wasn't towards me..I don't know but anyway...)

We as members of this forum?....Ooohhkkaaayyyy....yea...and? so?

It's very apparent that some people do believe everything they read is 100% real and truthful. Boy, that's sad. I don't mean to back up any speculations but come on, you really think there is no politics that go into company collaborations etc...especially the petroleum industry that is one of the biggest businesses next to pharmaceutical.

Anyway, bottom line...this was never a Mobil1 vs Amsoil thing. It's simply asking who uses Amsoil and what weight they use...

iunlock

Thanks for providing useful information relevant to what the topic has evolved to, from the few who steered it off track. It's a shame that some people are so narrow minded to believe everything they read. You know who they are.

There are indeed a lot of great brand of oils out there...in a competitive market there's no choice but to be on your 'A' game. The brands that receive much attention are all quality oils...

After all these posts from the others who steered this way off track, made me curious why no brands have ever proved Amsoil wrong with their tests? I mean if I was Brand A or B and Amsoil came along and published lab tests to show their superiority, wouldn't you think that Brand A or B would counter that?

As they say...documentation beats conversation...which is exactly what you did regarding the voiding of warranty etc...kudos to you

splinter

Glyn M Ruck

https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...ghlight=Amsoil See Amsoil claims & my reply.

Post #26

Amsoil is comparing apples with pears - They are not testing against Mobil 1 0W-40 Eurograde as approved by Benz & they are testing properties that are irrelevant to PCMO formulation. A really dumb marketing ploy. You obviously had difficulty in reading the link so I post a small exerpt. .

Quote.

"Lets keep this simple & understandable

1) I am not saying Mobil 1 Euro formulation is the best PCMO - it is a very fine product & readily available in the US. I am saying for your Petrol Benz choose from the list of 229.5 approved oils. For your Diesel Benz passenger car choose from the list of 229.51 approved oils. I run my company's approved Havoline BM Fully Synthetic Euro formulation SAE 5W-40 in my car which is not available in the US or our wholly owned additive company's 229.5 racing formulation that is not available to the public - a perk of the job. Even if it were available I would not recommend it for general use or in locations that experience low temperatures because it is optimised for high temperature only and will not perform well in cold temperatures or combat low temperature sludge well. I live in a hot country so I can get away with it. Buy your approved oils from a well recognised major. They have the largest research budgets.
2) If you read the Definitive... thread. 229.5 & 229.51 oils are mutually exclusive. Benz has mandated that no one oil can claim meeting both specs. 229.5 oils are for petrol passenger car - Ash limits > 0.8 to 1.6%. 229.51 oils are for passenger car diesel with cat & particulate filters - Ash limit < 0.8%. Ash is a good indication of how much additive is in an oil (antiwear - dispersant - detergeant etc). The Amsoil 229.51 product will fail the 229.5 test criteria as a result.
3) Diesel engines do not rev as highly as petrol engines due to the combustion process. They don't run aggressive cam profiles like a petrol engine either. Thus HTHS & higher levels of antiwear to protect the cam & tappet area are less of an issue than in petrol engines.
4)Regarding TBN - You require as much TBN as you require & no more - more is not better if you don't have enough sulphur in the fuel to offset/neutralise it. TBN (alkalinity of an oil formulation) is there to offset the deleterious effects of combustion acids mainly driven by the sulphur content of the fuel. Basic chemistry tells us that a strong alkali is as damaging as a strong acid when it comes to corrosive effects on metals. So we don't want more TBN reserve than is necessary. I have never seen a long drain oil sample from a Benz petrol engine that has its TBN totally depleted. You or Amsoil are trying to use a mainly diesel driven positive/requirement & trying to relate it to a PCMO to somehow try & suggest this means higher TBN = better - not so.
5) We have already discussed that the Shell 4 Ball test is inappropriate for PCMOs & in fact the FZG or similar test is better for simulating gear wear. The 4 Ball correlates with very little seen in actual operating equipment. Very useful to BS & mislead the gullible public on trade show stands etc.
6) Noack values of an oil are an indication of the evapourative loss one can expect from the base fluid in an engine oil which leads to that oil thickening as a result of loss of its light ends. This is an issue in highly stressed and hot running diesel engines such as the Deutz air-cooled. It is not an issue in passenger car engine oils & the synthetic base oils used in Merc 229.5 approved products - usually PAO, display excellent Noacks anyway. I have never seen an oil sample from a Benz, racing or otherwise, that has suffered evapourative thickening.
7) 229.5 oils are an excellent choice for Turbo or SC vehicles. The most important requirement of an oil for these applications is oxidation stability to prevent deposit build up in the bearings of a TC for instance. Due to their required base fluid choice & formulation - 229.5 oils have superb oxidation stability. One of the reasons they can do 20,000 Km or 13,000 miles without a problem with proper filtration.
8) Regarding operating oil temperatures. Lower temperatures are mainly a result of the viscometrics. Pumping, shearing & churning of oils generate heat. Thinner oils will generally give you some temperature drop as would oils that shear out of grade with resultant viscosity drop - not a good thing. Reduced bulk oil temperature is not necessarily a good thing either. Many manufacturers like VW/Audi/Lambo etc control their bulk oil temp at around 130 degrees Celsius which is high because this increases engine efficiency.
9) I am not going to get into bashing Bobistheoilguy - It's fruitless. I have seen rubbish spoken by them about base fluids etc. I think good advice is - don't believe everything you read on the Internet just because it is in print. The internet is a wonderful resource but there is a lot of crap out there. You need to sort the wheat from the chaff. Something I have been bashing into my staff for years. Don't believe everything you read. Question it!"

unquote

My recommendations are well founded & are given in an endeavour to see that members enjoy a long & trouble free life from their Mercs. Oil is not just oil.

What is comedic to me is that the uninitiated would not use a superior product from this large listing.

https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...l-listing.html

I'm a tribologist from a supermajor oilco - I know what I'm talking about.

DonjuanOriginal

Your correct. You can use many different oils. But some are right, not all recommended oils are good for your engine. I owned a SS trailblazer Ls2 vette engine. which had mobil 1 one. for it's factory. It worked terrible it burned oil after spirited driving. Next change used Royal Purple 5w30 non race formula. And it was great stayed level through my whole oil change interval.

But for my benz i will use Mobil 0w40 it has been a good oil can't complain.

iunlock

I appreciate your reply. Questioning it is exactly what I am doing to gain a better understanding in all this.

I do agree, the internet is a land mine for bs traps as well as it being a great resource if one can separate the findings accordingly.

I love the technical stuff, however for the average person, regardless if a test is not right on point with whatever standards, they will just simply want to know one question.

"Why has Mobil1 remained quiet about all this and not counter Amsoil for their claims? The tests may not tell the whole story about an oil, but it's still a test to show a particular category / property of an oil..."

In that sense, I don't see how it can be comparing apples to pears.

IMO it would be a cake walk for Mobil1 to release at least something to counter Amsoil's tests and claims. They have more than enough money to do so. It's chump change for them...

What I find astonishing is that Mobil1 seems to know this truth and is avoiding it because it knows it can't prove it wrong.

With you being a tribologist?, I'd imagine you'd have more than enough resources to come up with some good data on different oils. Especially with your statement, "I run my company's approved Havoline BM Fully Synthetic Euro formulation SAE 5W-40 in my car which is not available in the US or our wholly owned additive company's 229.5 racing formulation that is not available to the public" -- I would imagine if you worked for an oil company that you'd be biased toward your opinion.

Has your company tested other brand of oils to show that your oil is superior? If not, on what grounds do you base your decision on to use your companies oil beside the fact that they pay you to put food on your table...

Don't get me wrong, if I worked for XYZ oil company and it was my stream of income, I don't care how good of an oil it was, if I had perks on getting it cheap or free...I'd use it...to be a product of what I'm marketing or selling...