G3BML

Hey Guys! My first post on here and I'm looking for a little bit of advise. I took delivery of my 2012 (62 plate) Mercedes Benz W204 C180 CGI C Class sport plus on the 1st of September. Since then I've done 500 miles and I've decided I want to modify the car slightly but discreatly. I've been looking into the Carlsson C-Tronic tuning boxes for the C180 CGI engine and it quotes that's power is increased from 156BHP to 186BHP and torque is increased from 250Nm to 310Nm. The only question I have is, is it really worth the £1000 EXCLUDING VAT for merely 30BHP and 60Nm? And will I notice a big difference?

Yours faithfully,
Lewis from Scotland.

ggms16

Welcome..

There are not many cgi's over here, I would better try at any UK or Australian forum.

kevink2

I think it helps to look at the percent gain, which is 19% more hp and 24% more torque. The peak hp will be enjoyed less often than the max torque. Assuming the same boost as oem, the low end torque will be like you have a 2.2L engine, vs the 1.8L, and you will feel that extra pull.

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G3BML

It does look worth while when you look at the percentage gain. The engine is a 1.6L turbo not a 1.8L turbo. Seems to been a new engine

kevink2

Sorry, I assumed 1.8L based on your 1st post: "... Benz W204 C180 CGI C Class sport plus .... " .

So it would be like same oem boost profile and a 2.0L engine, rather than 1.6L, as far as low end pull.

Not sure what other ecu upgrades you had available ??

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Petje

1.6 ? Lucky me they only have the 1.8 here in The Netherlands.

Tuningboxes are all the same Carlsson , Vath , speedbuster etc.
They al give the same figures.

Search TMC motorsport, also the same and cheaper.

I have one from Diesel-Power.com

Petje

I see diesel power gives a different One for the 1.6

Do you have a 122 HP 1.6 ???

sjbtax

Always wondered......

Why is it that the C180 has a 1.6 and the c200 has a 1.8? Confused.

Petje

Not always, the M271 Kompressor engines were all 1.8L from the W204, they only made a 1.6 Kompressor at the end. But that engine was really to small.

Now with the CGI it depends were you buy it, in The Netherlands they are all 1.8L (180/200/250CGI)

But UK and Germany seems to have a C180 CGI 1.6 with 122 hp and a C200 CGI with also an 1.6 with 156 hp.

G3BML

No mate it has 156BHP

sjbtax

Thanks Petje,

Now I'm even more confused.
Here in Australia, we have the C200CGI - 1.8L. I'm not sure about the C180 or C250.

Acapulco Bill

There are more aggressive tunes, try Kleemann, for your CGI here is the link:

http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/E...I_M271EVO.aspx

Petje

Australia have 200 and 250 with 1.8L

Petje

Thats the same as all others (i think) and/or the Diesel-Power box.

Acapulco Bill

Gasoline CGIs are C180 a 1.595L and the C200 and C250 are 1.796L, all inline 4 cyl.

The diesels are C200, C220 and ÇC250 all 2.143L with various degrees of tune, and the C350 which is a 2,987L.

So tuning is definitely an option, especially on the CDIs where huge gains can be obtained. The question is who will give the best for the investment.

Petje

No way !! Wrong info.

I have a 180CGI with 1.8L , the 1.6L isnt available here.
So it depends on w you live.

Acapulco Bill

I stand corrected, the C180 in NL is actually a 1.8L engine, while in England and much of Europe it is 1.6L.

In any case this is a thread about the value of an ECU tune, for which ANY MB engine can benefit.

Petje

The best tune will be an ECU tune, but with the new ECU's this is almost impossible if i have to believe ecu tuners.

With an ECU tune you can get much gain with turbo engines.

kevink2

First you need to normalize the displacement at 1.8L, since nobody lists values for the 1.6L CGI Turbo engine, afaik.

So I'll compare the hp and Tq gains for Carlsonn vs Kleemann vs JuiceBox, hp & ft/lbs :

HP, Tq

40, 44 > Carlsonn
42, 37 > Kleemann
07, 40 > JuiceBox Burger

I believe the 1st two are complicated tunes that include discrete changes in the matrix table points of timing & fuel. This allows them to add advance to let the boost rise quicker with less delay. They may also do a minor SprintBooster mod for quicker throttle response. I think it's all accomplished by a box that connects to the ecu.

I talked with the JB guys, and as I suspected they do a global change to the fuel to lean it out, and do what looks like a scaler change to the boost map, with little change at the top end. Based on their bef/aft Dyno runs (and my talks with them), you can see they did not change the timing to help reduce power lag. But if you just want more low end torque, and as-is lag does not bother you, this is the best deal on more low end torque.

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Petje

I can confirm that the Kleemann is different from all others !!

JasonHu

I don't think that mod will increase the value of your car; so no, it will not be a good investment.

kevink2

With reference to the table I made of advertised gains, how is the Kleeman different than the Carlsonn, when hp and tq gains are so close?

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Petje

Different powerbox i mean.

kevink2

So the enclosure for the electronics inside, is different?

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AusMB87

Not sure if you ever settled on a box, but I compared all of the output figures and settled on Carlsson. Full write up here:

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...0cgi-tune.html