Newbie -is oil grade critical? n owners manual
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: New Zealand
2008 C300 Avantgarde S - 1971 Jensen Healey - Toyota Hilux-
Newbie -is oil grade critical? n owners manual
Hi.. two questions. First up have recently bought a 2008 C300- 7sp Auto avantgarde S-with 45k-ex Japan- the car sales did a oil change before I bought the car but they used 5w-30 synthetic oil and not the 0w-40 that is supposed to be used.. should I wait till next service after 15k to get the correct oil put in or get it changed now?.. NEXT my VIN WDD204054-2A212939 with no owners manual- where can I download one.. the ones i have seen are all different to mine? Thanks in advance for your help..
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
This is all that's easily available.
http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA...350sport_1.pdf
5W-30 is OK but is it a Benz approved product?
If oil unknown run it 7500Km & dump it for an approved 0W-40. Don't change filter & then get into your standard change pattern at 15,000Km intervals.
http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA...350sport_1.pdf
5W-30 is OK but is it a Benz approved product?
If oil unknown run it 7500Km & dump it for an approved 0W-40. Don't change filter & then get into your standard change pattern at 15,000Km intervals.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 702
Likes: 3
From: Illinois
'08 C300 4Matic Sport, '02 530i
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: New Zealand
2008 C300 Avantgarde S - 1971 Jensen Healey - Toyota Hilux-
Its a Aussie oil -Gulf Western did a search and they say it is certified for MB229.51.. so looks OK ?
www.gulfwestern.com.au/.../Euro%20En
www.gulfwestern.com.au/.../Euro%20En
Last edited by apollo77; Feb 4, 2014 at 05:46 PM.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
No it's not OK. 229.51 is for Benz passenger car diesel with Cat & particulate filter. Change the oil. This is a low ash oil ~ i.e. lower additive treat.
If it was a decent synthetic for petrol engines but not 229.5 I would have halved the drain.
If it was a decent synthetic for petrol engines but not 229.5 I would have halved the drain.
Trending Topics
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 702
Likes: 3
From: Illinois
'08 C300 4Matic Sport, '02 530i
I'd run half the recommended interval with 229.51 oil in a gasoline engine. It's somewhat gasoline quality dependent, too. Low quality gas with high sulfur and ethanol content (like we have here in the US) will cause oil to degrade faster.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
The trouble with the low SAPs products is they compromise cam & tappet protection for the sake of the emissions system.
With a diesel this is OK because they are rev limited by the combustion process & don't run aggressive cams. HTHS is also less critical.
I would halve the drain with a 229.3 type of product.
With a diesel this is OK because they are rev limited by the combustion process & don't run aggressive cams. HTHS is also less critical.
I would halve the drain with a 229.3 type of product.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Feb 5, 2014 at 08:12 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 702
Likes: 3
From: Illinois
'08 C300 4Matic Sport, '02 530i
IMO, it provides the same protection, but just for a shorter interval.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Not so. 229.51 is deficient out of the gate for Benz gasoline engines. The very reason that Benz decreed that no one product could claim meeting both 229.5 & 229.51 & imposed the ash clamping limits.
We have thousand of hours of testing in our labs proving this. Unfortunately it is proprietary so I can't share.
The trouble with the cam & tappet area is once microscopic flat spots develop on the cam lobe you have a clattery engine. This can't be reversed.
We have thousand of hours of testing in our labs proving this. Unfortunately it is proprietary so I can't share.
The trouble with the cam & tappet area is once microscopic flat spots develop on the cam lobe you have a clattery engine. This can't be reversed.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 702
Likes: 3
From: Illinois
'08 C300 4Matic Sport, '02 530i
Very interesting. How long ago did you carry out these tests? FYI, the performance parameters of all MB specs were recently revised (2012/2013 I believe).
I am surprised you'd take 229.3 oil over a 229.51 oil. The 229.3 spec has less stringent wear limits.
I am surprised you'd take 229.3 oil over a 229.51 oil. The 229.3 spec has less stringent wear limits.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
The 229.3 Products are optimised for gasoline performance. The 229.51 for diesel performance. Testing is ongoing & current.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
To make this a little more easily understandable.
Diesel formulations have to combat high temperature sludge while gasoline formulation chemistry concentrates on low temperature sludge etc.etc. as an example.
When formulating a premium high performance & relatively high margin product like 229.5 you look after Benz while capturing, VW, Porsche, BMW, Audi & others in the net. While net additive treat cost (NATC) is watched with no ash limit to contend with you actually have quite a lot of quality give away due to high additive treat rates & you exceed many specs by quite a considerable margin.
When you formulate a low SAPs product with in the case of 229.51 an ash clamping limit of 0.8% & ACEA & API trying to clamp Phosphorus & Zinc on certain grades you end up with nowhere to go. While ashless dispersants etc. are available there are limitations. You are forced into a fine balancing act due to restricted component treat levels as a result of the max ash. So you end up with a product with no quality give away that just meets all specs but certainly does not exceed them. Therein lies the compromise of giving away some engine protection for the sake of protecting the emissions system.
Diesel formulations have to combat high temperature sludge while gasoline formulation chemistry concentrates on low temperature sludge etc.etc. as an example.
When formulating a premium high performance & relatively high margin product like 229.5 you look after Benz while capturing, VW, Porsche, BMW, Audi & others in the net. While net additive treat cost (NATC) is watched with no ash limit to contend with you actually have quite a lot of quality give away due to high additive treat rates & you exceed many specs by quite a considerable margin.
When you formulate a low SAPs product with in the case of 229.51 an ash clamping limit of 0.8% & ACEA & API trying to clamp Phosphorus & Zinc on certain grades you end up with nowhere to go. While ashless dispersants etc. are available there are limitations. You are forced into a fine balancing act due to restricted component treat levels as a result of the max ash. So you end up with a product with no quality give away that just meets all specs but certainly does not exceed them. Therein lies the compromise of giving away some engine protection for the sake of protecting the emissions system.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 702
Likes: 3
From: Illinois
'08 C300 4Matic Sport, '02 530i
Not trying to doubt what you're saying. Just want to better understand the real world implications.
Last edited by Pete7874; Feb 5, 2014 at 12:35 PM.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
In the real world the differences become apparent as mileage rises on a runaway curve. At 60K miles as an example while the differences would be measurable both engines would still be OK. At 120K miles the differences would be marked. By 200K miles the engine running on the better product would show minimal wear & have good further life expectancy while the engine run on the inferior product would likely be a clattery oil burner assuming equivalent service interval & all things remaining equal. Obviously this scale slides up or down on severity of use.
In town vehicles that incur a lot of stop start running & running at less than ideal fuel trim and not fully warmed up for a large percentage of their life display wear earlier as do engines that get hammered when cold & clearances have not normalised.
I come from a country that has large life expectancy from Benz products. Our company as an example always use E Class models as company taxis to run execs to & from home & the office and airport etc. These things get up to 700,000Kms in a heartbeat & completely trouble free because they are serviced to the book & run on premium products.
A friend runs an airport taxi fleet of Benzes in KL Malaysia. He has run many of his cars to over a million Km's serviced by Cycle & Carriage ~ The Benz agents. As Gan always says. One hell of a lot of tyres & brake pads but no mechanical failures.
In town vehicles that incur a lot of stop start running & running at less than ideal fuel trim and not fully warmed up for a large percentage of their life display wear earlier as do engines that get hammered when cold & clearances have not normalised.
I come from a country that has large life expectancy from Benz products. Our company as an example always use E Class models as company taxis to run execs to & from home & the office and airport etc. These things get up to 700,000Kms in a heartbeat & completely trouble free because they are serviced to the book & run on premium products.
A friend runs an airport taxi fleet of Benzes in KL Malaysia. He has run many of his cars to over a million Km's serviced by Cycle & Carriage ~ The Benz agents. As Gan always says. One hell of a lot of tyres & brake pads but no mechanical failures.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Feb 5, 2014 at 06:59 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 311
Likes: 3
2004.7 C180 Kompressor, BMW X5, Chevrolet Camaro LT, Mercedes S, Cesna 152.
In the real world the differences become apparent as mileage rises on a runaway curve. At 60K miles as an example while the differences would be measurable both engines would still be OK. At 120K miles the differences would be marked. By 200K miles the engine running on the better product would show minimal wear & have good further life expectancy while the engine run on the inferior product would likely be a clattery oil burner assuming equivalent service interval & all things remaining equal. Obviously this scale slides up or down on severity of use.
In town vehicles that incur a lot of stop start running & running at less than ideal fuel trim and not fully warmed up for a large percentage of their life display wear earlier as do engines that get hammered when cold & clearances have not normalised.
I come from a country that has large life expectancy from Benz products. Our company as an example always use E Class models as company taxis to run execs to & from home & the office and airport etc. These things get up to 700,000Kms in a heartbeat & completely trouble free because they are serviced to the book & run on premium products.
A friend runs an airport taxi fleet of Benzes in KL Malaysia. He has run many of his cars to over a million Km's serviced by Cycle & Carriage ~ The Benz agents. As Gan always says. One hell of a lot of tyres & brake pads but no mechanical failures.
In town vehicles that incur a lot of stop start running & running at less than ideal fuel trim and not fully warmed up for a large percentage of their life display wear earlier as do engines that get hammered when cold & clearances have not normalised.
I come from a country that has large life expectancy from Benz products. Our company as an example always use E Class models as company taxis to run execs to & from home & the office and airport etc. These things get up to 700,000Kms in a heartbeat & completely trouble free because they are serviced to the book & run on premium products.
A friend runs an airport taxi fleet of Benzes in KL Malaysia. He has run many of his cars to over a million Km's serviced by Cycle & Carriage ~ The Benz agents. As Gan always says. One hell of a lot of tyres & brake pads but no mechanical failures.
Agree in principle. Here in OZ any taxi; Toyota, Mitsi, Chev, Hyundai etc reg get in excess of 1 million kilometers, with out touching the motor. More to do with the fact the engine is never cold, cold starts are where 90% of engine wear occurs..
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Having lived in Aus & experienced your Taxi's I can vouch for what you say. Ford & Holden transmissions just get bloody noisy.
The lesson here however is that Benz does not want to see low additive treat 229.51 Diesel engine oils in it's gasoline engines. And for good reason.
The lesson here however is that Benz does not want to see low additive treat 229.51 Diesel engine oils in it's gasoline engines. And for good reason.
