HelenR

Emailing to MBUSA as well, will post if a reply:

There's a fair number of threads from individuals who started posting on mbworld.org before they ordered and got their 2015 C Class. We shared their excitement from order to delivery. This isn't a sample of just people who came online to complain. No product is perfect, but the number of people who have since reported numerous, and recurrent build problems is enormous considering the very short time this car has been out. I will not elaborate here, as the list is extensive. I have an order pending, and am frightened as to how these issues are continuing, much less the issues that take time to discover. Can you review the postings and provide insight into specific actions being done by Mercedes and MBUSA to correct these issues at the Vance Alabama plant for cars being built right now and in coming weeks? Are build quality as known to you as it is blatant to the current owners and readers who see pictures of embarrassing proportions? If you can shed some insight into the fixes and changes it would be appreciated and may help retain some customers, including myself. Respectfully, Helen

vic viper

I am pretty positive that no higher position representatives from MBUSA browse these forums, but it´ll be interesting to se what MBUSA respond to your email.


You should have pointed out specific threads or even better attach pictures of the currently known problems.

HelenR

That's a good idea on specific threads. I'll post if get anything back.

If I had huge company with thousands of hits of online posts talking about issues with my best selling product, I'd wanna know. It isn't like they're all to busy checking cars as they leave the factory and staying on top of their subcontractors.

Mark's M

Thanks Helen. It'll be interesting to see if and how MB responds to you...and I suppose others who may have written to voice their concerns.

I'm not a current owner of the new C but most of the regulars here whom I've had the pleasure to discuss the new car with know that a purchase (order) is in the cards within the coming months. Honestly, if I were scheduled for a purchase appointment this afternoon, I'd cancel it and wait. Not an over reaction, in my mind it's the reality of spending 60 or 70k on a car and having the confidence that it'll be built right. Unlike many others, I LOVE the purchase experience but I'd be pissed if numerous follow up service visits were required to address the issues mentioned in this forum. Don't need the grief nor the aggravation, it's as simple as that.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that the Alabama plant is on Mercedes' radar! All of this is so very disappointing and it's really cutting into my excitement. Dammit!

HelenR

Thank you. Please take a few minutes to go to MBUSA.com and express your genuine concerns by phone or email. Their contact form is easy. This isn't a bash campaign in the least of asking people be rude. As can read, most stay silent beyond dealer fixes.

I own a business and would be mortified if end users were afraid of hassle factor to buy my products due to well documented shoddy construction.

http://mercedes-benz.custhelp.com

Mikemcn

My car, a 2015 C300 Sport 4Matic, has been problem free for 6,500 miles since I purchased it new in September, 2014.

I have issues with the dealer and the body shop over the repairs made following a minor deer strike, but not with the car. I did have the tire recall, and received 2 new front tires at no charge (and very slow service at my dealer).

The forums have too few participants to draw a conclusion (statistically invalid, I would guess) on reliability or build quality.

Sportstick

Hi Helen,

I retired from 25 years with another manufacturer, but we all saw the same data and had the same realization about launch years. It is most common, with rare exception, that a first launch year of a new model fails to meet the quality of the exit year of the prior model. With a new plant and supply base for this case, the potential for unknown issues arising are even higher. I can assure you MB has a large number of engineers tracking each reported repair condition and implementing corrective actions.

The challenges of volume production are quite different from building the early different phases of prototypes. Even from the Pre-Volume Production which should be representative of what should come off the line once V1 starts, it is more typical than not to find new issues arising.

The problem is that implementing corrective actions takes time. The long history of the industry shows that the buyers of first year vehicles do have the benefit of being "the first on the block" but that comes at a cost of higher likelihood of quality issues. Once the issues are reported individually, the data has to be collected and analyzed to determine which are level A HOT issues, level B, and so on in priority. Then, the root causes must be determined. Then, the new designs must be created, even if the change is miniscule. Then, the supplier has to change their tooling and processes. Then, the new part has to be re-tested and validated. By the time this all happens, most first year improvements are not implemented until the second year of production.

I just bought a competitive make, for reasons apart from quality. My 09 C Class had excellent quality over six years and is still in our family. Our 2008 E has excellent quality. But, I bought a relatively new car, first launched in 2014. I insisted that the order hold for 15MY production, and not even the first week, as I wanted the line operators to have a chance to get familiar with any new parts/processes resulting from the fixes that company may have made from the first year's experience. So, it was scheduled for the 3rd week of the 15MY. Time will tell if my caution pays off. From August to now, I have an excellent quality new car.

In your case, and with your concerns, I recommend you ask for your order to be held for 2016MY production for all the reasons mentioned above. MB can build excellent cars. However, it remains a challenge for everyone, not just MB, to achieve excellence from Job #1. Good luck and best wishes.

HelenR

Explain that to the dozens of people who were here BEFORE even ordering their car, not who showed up after, and most all of them have had repetitive issues. This isn't a huge sample, but for the time this car has been out, compared to forums of other builds, this car and QC has major issues on glaring sloppiness. All the cars too young to tell reliability. It looks bleak from initial data I got from service manager for a couple dealers. Of course, there are certainly some who are problem free so far, or lucked out. I just really want them to fix it abruptly for cars built today on, and make good for those who got shoddy ones.

HelenR

Thank you! I agree some of these will take time. Most issues too early to be known. BUT, fitting parts correctly on assembly that are to spec, inspecting them and reinforcing workers to catch flaws than sheer speed, returning to SA as source of MBtex or other questionable parts, and SOME of the other issues could be implemented immediately while US suppliers are tweaked. Historically builders also must cut quality where able as model years go on and the possibility of preserving the bottom line and price stability as years pass. It works like that in my field (small business, not cars). A later year model of anything has some tweaks worked out, but often with other sacrifices. MBUSA needs to know and be concerned to adjust suppliers and QC incentives in this model year as well.

Mark's M

Well I couldn't go to MBUSA 'cause I'm Canadian but here's what I sent to Mercedes-Benz Canada. I'll let you know if I receive a response.


"Good day.

I am the current owner of 2 Mercedes Benz vehicles, a C350 and a GLK 250 - both of which I bought new from Performance Mercedes Benz in 2013. Both of these vehicles have been exceptional and were the first Mercedes products that I've purchased, having come from a very long line of BMW's.

I've been eagerly anticipating the replacements for these cars and have currently researched and driven the C400 which I was quite impressed with. I am excitedly anticipating the release of the C450 which I've no doubt will better meet my driving/performance needs - although having said that, I was teetering on the purchase of the C400 as it was that good!

My purchases are researched thoroughly and this has done me well as both of my current vehicles are exceptionally solid, trouble free and a pleasure to own. But I've been without a "performance" oriented car for a couple of years now which is why I'll be replacing the C350 this year. The new C63 was under consideration but I've become accustomed to AWD, thusly I'm hoping that the upcoming C450 might better fill the void.

To the point....my vehicle research takes me to various vehicle forums where I engage in discussions on ownership experience with fellow enthusiasts. MBWorld.org has provided myself and others with valuable information on the W205 (C63 and C300/400 twins) but I'm very concerned with the numerous reports of build quality and apparent quality control "issues" experienced by current W205 owners, particularly those in North America whose vehicles were manufactured at the Alabama plant.

References to the above can be found amongst the forum topics here: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w205-186/

I understand that these reports represent only a small sampling of current ownership experiences but as stated, they are concerning nonetheless. Much like the random sampling results of a professional polling organization, I suspect that the issues reported by MBWorld forum members represent the broader North American W205 ownership experience - which if correct, in terms of the usual +/- polling accuracy standards, is unfortunate.

Myself and many others I believe are attempting to seek assurance from Mercedes Benz that current build issues are 1) known and 2) being addressed as expeditiously as possible. I'll be very honest and state that at this point, I will hold off on my purchase(s). My dealership experience to date has been exceptional and as much as I enjoy dropping in for scheduled services and chatting with the dealer principle, I do not relish the possibility of repeated service visits for a vehicle line fraught with ongoing problems.

Thank-you for your attention and I'll look forward to hearing back from Mercedes-Benz.ca.

Best regards, Mark S."

Jon@BMS

What would you expect them to tell you? That there is some systemic manufacturing issue at their plant? That they will have someone go walk your personal car through the manufacturing process to ensure everything is A-OK with it? If you are not comfortable with whatever reviews you are reading I'd suggest you hold off on ordering the car until you are comfortable.

FWIW no issues here with a few k on our base model 300C.

coladin

I am with you on this, dozens of people over the thousands of cars delivered...it is hard to truly gauge the quality control and reliability of the car.


Not to excuse MB in any way, but from what I have read, and I have been on these boards for a few years, is not unusual for this brand. Still, wouldn't be happy if it was my car, but I have had niggling issues with my last 6 Benzes so maybe I am used to it!

Mark's M

Terry, I expect something like this:


"Dear Mark, Thank-you for your interest in Mercedes-Benz products and we share in your excitement for a continued ownership experience."


I am not naïve and MB would be committing corporate suicide if they acknowledged any of these concerns publicly. But my e-mail, Helen's e-mail and many others are being read - by whom is anyone's guess - and those people are also being directed to the website concerns. And the pictures. It's a start, that's all.

StanNH

I've owned first year cars before ... some have been trouble free while others lived at the dealer's service department. I knew going in that a first year C300 might have some first year issues, and I was okay with that.

What I didn't expect, was that the problems I've experienced were ones that shouldn't be happening at all. With all the new technology in this car, you'd think the electronics would the biggest headache. But that's not where the bulk of the problems lie. Why should a new model have problems with parts lining up right? There are no obvious defects in the parts, but a seeming lack of attention during the assembly process. Proper alignment of the headlights? My local mechanic can get that right. Lights in door handles not working? Not much cutting edge stuff there.

My latest issue, the bleeding MB-Tex, should never have happened, first year or not. This material has been used for years by MB, and the specs are well established. How could they not have known about such an egregious error in the manufacturing of this material?

Sure, these problem areas will be dealt with and corrected as time goes by. In that sense, yes they are first year problems. But, they are not problems that should have ever gotten beyond the initial pre-production stages in the development of this car. These are not safety concerns, nor are there any problems here that would be considered major events. Engines aren't blowing up, brakes aren't failing, and fluid leaks are almost unheard of.

But, how many small problems, and how many return visits to the dealer, does it take to lose a customer? Probably not that many. MB is on very thin ice here, and in danger of losing a significant number of both current and potential future owners if they don't take care of this quickly and effectively.

The tragedy is that they have come up with a winner of a car in the W205 series. It is one of the most competent and well designed cars I've ever owned ... now if they can figure out how to get the US factory up to speed they may be able to turn this all around. For myself, all I can say is that I'm both very impressed and very disappointed.

PeteInGilroy

I just emailed MBUSA advising them I'm considering canceling my order scheduled to be built on Jan 12th. I suggested if a supervisor were to walk my car through the assembly line, that would impress most everyone on this forum. I know...good luck with that!!!

vic viper

blue00r6

Here's the thing. OP's claim is based upon a few relatively subjective internet complaints. Sure there may have been some, it's very common. This type of data though, will never get addressed by a manufacturer because it doesn't feed into the type of internal control systems that track and evaluate warranty cost.

Within a manufacturer, issues with build quality/part quality/etc... are CONTINUALLY addressed, and (especially) as warranty claims mount up, attention will be given to the issues with greatest cost impact (Active and passive cost). Engineering issues will be resolved, Supplier performance will be improved, and assembly process will be improved as the product line matures.

My advice is to take delivery of your car and address your issues individually if you have any. Daimler has made massive investments in their US production facilities (BTW, the ML has been produced in the US since the 90's - so US production is a brand new idea) and (Daimler) absolutely WILL NOT let quality issues become a problem.

DBOC205

Manufacturing quality control complaints are valid - no question, but no matter how willing or reactive the corporate policy may be to implement change in that regard, you're often still at the mercy of your local dealership. A lot of the troubles we've seen described here are as much an issue with decent "service" than it is with the brand Q&A. Most folks will be willing to accept that any mass produced product will have issues, but when you're spending your hard earned dollars on a vehicle, you want to really be backed up by appropriate customer service.

Some dealerships are going to handle things just great, and others won't (as we've seen examples of). A fair share of the complaints to MB-Corporate should really be to highlight that as well in my opinion. Their dealer network has to back up the product to a level that the customer expects.

Jon@BMS

Mark, glad to see your exceptions are realistic. I'm sure if there is an issue with manufacturing MB is well aware of it and working diligently to solve it. Warranty claims cost a lot more than getting it right the first time.

PS. For some reason this forum isn't automatically doing quotes on my reply to post. Sigh.

Glyn M Ruck

Let's stop messing around & accept that Tuscaloosa has a poor reputation. Will Benz fix it ultimately? Absolutely! But early adopters beware.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Sportstick's comments above are spot on. He fully understands the issues & industry.

How Benz USA handles these issues is what matters. If they delight the customer, all will be OK.

Fortunately the SA plant has a history of fine quality. I see none of these issues here. The Benz bumper plastics attachment system is excellent & always has been as a example. Fortunately MBSA owns most of the dealerships in this country & between them & the plant, crap seldom gets anywhere near a customer.

I'm watching SA supplied cars reported on in this forum like a hawk. I expect some software glitches & we know of a noisy steering issue on one car from Dubai that I'm watching. I want to know what parts were replaced & why.

Every SA customer I have spoken to regarding their W205 has been delighted. We are a fussy bunch because the cars are so expensive here. Today I was in town & walked around my dealer's new car showroom. South Africans won't buy cars parked outdoors The fit & finish was impeccable on every W205 I saw. I will let you know when I find a bad one & photograph it.

floridadriver

Interesting thread, and no shock that no reply from MB. I mean, you can't post a review on any other product besides cars w/o getting at least a canned response from the manufacturer.

Glyn sums up my take: "How Benz USA handles is what matters". And to leave it to dealers to deal with repetitive QA mistakes without backtracking the source/manager/inspector is not handling it. To hope buyers won't notice the misfits or be to afraid to have them fixed for what else will be damaged is not handling it. For them to say this is just a bad batch, bad sample size here online is not handling it. To say wait for 2016, it should be better, is not handling it.

This model year started early, but we're not a week into 2015. This car has issues here, and so what. No need to be hating, or deny it. It just needs to be corrected.

I'll add mine to the list and email MB tonight my concerns and request they respond this thread and how they will "Handle it" as well. It's out of my love for the brand. I know..maybe falls on deaf ears. I'll look at it as kinda like voting. Gives one the right to complain.

Edit: Any source to write MB in Germany? I don't see the 'fix' for this coming from MBUSA without some oversight.

Mark's M

Mercedes needs to put you up in Alabama for a few months....all expenses paid and a huge salary of course!!!

floridadriver

Hmmm, I dunno man. Thinking of an analogy. Seems our expectations for cars is pretty weak....no matter how much you might like it.....you go buy an HDTV with bezel not put on the back of it that you didn't notice when delivered, and you drag it back and they snap it in place for free but in doing so, they scratch another area of your brand new set, but they order the part. You just need come back next week when they have an appointment available and fix it. Section of pixels go out 2 weeks later, they fix it with not much hassle, then sound doesn't work the day after, they keep the set a few days (you missed the Sugar Bowl) and then offer a software patch is coming soon, just be patient, then your set oozes slime if your house is too cold, they say wait a few months we're back ordered on that fix..... I don't think many would tolerate half that. Yet, SOME do with cars. Warranty and dealer involvement should be to fix unforeseen, defective parts.

MOST of these issues I'm seeing, and hearing from the dealer are poor manufacturing issues, very well known, not fixed. We haven't even gotten to the gremlins hiding in the W205 out of Vance, it's a quarter year old. I'm still optimistic some heads roll and new management oversees QA, the 2015 model year is salvageable. Eternal optimist maybe.

Glyn M Ruck

Nah! I would drive the production people mad & fire half the staff. I'm unfortunately one of those people that always sees everything that's wrong long before I see what is right.

Friend has just asked me to look over his new Porsche Carrera GTS. Gave him a 2 X A4 page list of items for correction.

floridadriver

Then we definitely need you!

I'm a pilot. Aren't you glad I look at it it the same way...and get plenty of pressure to 'overlook' in the name of efficiency sometimes. Guess I could look at NTSB crash investigation team as my 'warranty back up' system.