!!
C450 base price has been released...
Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 217
Likes: 2
From: New Jersey
2016 C300
Not sure how you draw that conclusion. While each model might have slightly different residual it is usually very very close, say 66% for C300 vs 65% for C450 (of course it is also possible 450 gets the higher residual or that it is the same) on a 3/36K lease.
Money factor or "interest rate" will be the same. Not sure what you mean by "leasing rate" but the lease payment is based on residual (depreciation) and money factor (interest rate).. That's it.
The more loaded your C300 then the less the price spread to the C450 since it comes with some of the package items at base level.
Of course there are other costs that make the C450 more expensive to lease than the C300. Insurance premiums are likely higher, the car gets worse fuel economy and the tires are likely more expensive to replace at lease end.
Money factor or "interest rate" will be the same. Not sure what you mean by "leasing rate" but the lease payment is based on residual (depreciation) and money factor (interest rate).. That's it.
The more loaded your C300 then the less the price spread to the C450 since it comes with some of the package items at base level.
Of course there are other costs that make the C450 more expensive to lease than the C300. Insurance premiums are likely higher, the car gets worse fuel economy and the tires are likely more expensive to replace at lease end.
It wasn't even fully loaded. No hud, parktronic, or anti-collision package. With those and any of the priced iridium/palladium/diamond white colors you'll be in the lower 60s!
Last edited by jakc; Jun 29, 2015 at 12:17 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
2013 BMW 328xi
The only reasonable explanation is that you were not getting much of a discount on the C400 vs the discount you were going to get on C300. $3000 difference in purchase price, assuming everything else the same works out to about $40-$50 difference in lease payment.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,524
Likes: 1,181
From: WI
17 E43; 21 GLS580
You should. Its a ton better than the standard radio. The better nav, Burmeister, the safety suite and real leather are must haves on a car at this price level. The adaptive LED headlights are not entirely necessary but they are superb. Buying the C450 in base form is silly since you'll be missing stuff that is standard on entry level Subarus, even Honda Fits. If your C450 is not costing you 60K plus, you are wasting your time.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
2013 BMW 328xi
You should. Its a ton better than the standard radio. The better nav, Burmeister, the safety suite and real leather are must haves on a car at this price level. The adaptive LED headlights are not entirely necessary but they are superb. Buying the C450 in base form is silly since you'll be missing stuff that is standard on entry level Subarus, even Honda Fits. If your C450 is not costing you 60K plus, you are wasting your time.
My current ride has $6,000 in options and I would not miss nearly any of them. In-car navigation is overrated, my phone does a better job. Leather? The vinyl seating surfaces are so good now that your typical lay-person would swear they are real cowhide.
Safety features? What safety features do you need to drive a compact sedan? The most necessary one (blind spot detection) is standard.
About the only thing in base form I would personally object to is the red seat belts but I imagine I would learn to live with it. If Burmeister is priced reasonably I would probably spring for that. Very few other options are needed for ME personally to enjoy the car but if you and others want to pay $10K more for the same car with a leather interior and lots of bells and whistles go for it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,846
Likes: 291
From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
Sounds like you are trying awfully hard to justify your own choices. In base form the C450 is still a very well equipped car and the performance should be terrific.
My current ride has $6,000 in options and I would not miss nearly any of them. In-car navigation is overrated, my phone does a better job. Leather? The vinyl seating surfaces are so good now that your typical lay-person would swear they are real cowhide.
Safety features? What safety features do you need to drive a compact sedan? The most necessary one (blind spot detection) is standard.
About the only thing in base form I would personally object to is the red seat belts but I imagine I would learn to live with it. If Burmeister is priced reasonably I would probably spring for that. Very few other options are needed for ME personally to enjoy the car but if you and others want to pay $10K more for the same car with a leather interior and lots of bells and whistles go for it.
My current ride has $6,000 in options and I would not miss nearly any of them. In-car navigation is overrated, my phone does a better job. Leather? The vinyl seating surfaces are so good now that your typical lay-person would swear they are real cowhide.
Safety features? What safety features do you need to drive a compact sedan? The most necessary one (blind spot detection) is standard.
About the only thing in base form I would personally object to is the red seat belts but I imagine I would learn to live with it. If Burmeister is priced reasonably I would probably spring for that. Very few other options are needed for ME personally to enjoy the car but if you and others want to pay $10K more for the same car with a leather interior and lots of bells and whistles go for it.
Great post.
M
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,846
Likes: 291
From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
You should. Its a ton better than the standard radio. The better nav, Burmeister, the safety suite and real leather are must haves on a car at this price level. The adaptive LED headlights are not entirely necessary but they are superb. Buying the C450 in base form is silly since you'll be missing stuff that is standard on entry level Subarus, even Honda Fits. If your C450 is not costing you 60K plus, you are wasting your time.
M
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
2013 BMW 328xi
C450 clearly has better engine, faster shifting transmission, better brakes and better suspension than the C400. C&D yawned about C400 but already said that the C450 is a beast.
Clearly someone is defensive about their expensive purchase.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,846
Likes: 291
From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
When researching the C450 I ran into some of his posts on another MB forum where he was completely blasting the C450 as some kind of joke "AMG wannabe" car.
C450 clearly has better engine, faster shifting transmission, better brakes and better suspension than the C400. C&D yawned about C400 but already said that the C450 is a beast.
Clearly someone is defensive about their expensive purchase.
C450 clearly has better engine, faster shifting transmission, better brakes and better suspension than the C400. C&D yawned about C400 but already said that the C450 is a beast.
Clearly someone is defensive about their expensive purchase.
M
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,524
Likes: 1,181
From: WI
17 E43; 21 GLS580
When researching the C450 I ran into some of his posts on another MB forum where he was completely blasting the C450 as some kind of joke "AMG wannabe" car.
C450 clearly has better engine, faster shifting transmission, better brakes and better suspension than the C400. C&D yawned about C400 but already said that the C450 is a beast.
Clearly someone is defensive about their expensive purchase.
C450 clearly has better engine, faster shifting transmission, better brakes and better suspension than the C400. C&D yawned about C400 but already said that the C450 is a beast.
Clearly someone is defensive about their expensive purchase.
Faster shifting with the same 7G plus transmission, you must be smoking??!!
The C450 is simply a new name for basicly the same car with a slightly higher rated same engine with a different suspension and torque split. . I just think its ridiculous to pay over 50K for faux leather and not have a rear view camera plus have a mediocre stereo. The autocruise and auto braking are top of the industry so why not spend the bucks to have the same stuff as a Subaru. That way your secretary cant boast of having a better equipped car than you! By the way MB TEX may look OK but the leather seats make them look feel and fit cheap. Nothing feels as nice as air coming through the seat on a hot summer day. Keeps you from having a sweaty butt.
I don't have to justify my buy, I can afford it. Heck I even splurged on the foot operated rear trunk opener (like the ford escape LOL). Unlike you apparently, I bought the car because I like how it drives, looks and because it was relatively "affordable". This is my fist "gamble" on an "unreliable" German car because it drives so well. Otherwise, I would have kept on buying much cheaper and reliable Japanese cars.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
2013 BMW 328xi
Faster shifting with the same 7G plus transmission, you must be smoking??!!
The C450 is simply a new name for basicly the same car with a slightly higher rated same engine with a different suspension and torque split. . I just think its ridiculous to pay over 50K for faux leather and not have a rear view camera plus have a mediocre stereo. The autocruise and auto braking are top of the industry so why not spend the bucks to have the same stuff as a Subaru. That way your secretary cant boast of having a better equipped car than you! By the way MB TEX may look OK but the leather seats make them look feel and fit cheap. Nothing feels as nice as air coming through the seat on a hot summer day. Keeps you from having a sweaty butt.
I don't have to justify my buy, I can afford it. Heck I even splurged on the foot operated rear trunk opener (like the ford escape LOL). Unlike you apparently, I bought the car because I like how it drives, looks and because it was relatively "affordable". This is my fist "gamble" on an "unreliable" German car because it drives so well. Otherwise, I would have kept on buying much cheaper and reliable Japanese cars.
The C450 is simply a new name for basicly the same car with a slightly higher rated same engine with a different suspension and torque split. . I just think its ridiculous to pay over 50K for faux leather and not have a rear view camera plus have a mediocre stereo. The autocruise and auto braking are top of the industry so why not spend the bucks to have the same stuff as a Subaru. That way your secretary cant boast of having a better equipped car than you! By the way MB TEX may look OK but the leather seats make them look feel and fit cheap. Nothing feels as nice as air coming through the seat on a hot summer day. Keeps you from having a sweaty butt.
I don't have to justify my buy, I can afford it. Heck I even splurged on the foot operated rear trunk opener (like the ford escape LOL). Unlike you apparently, I bought the car because I like how it drives, looks and because it was relatively "affordable". This is my fist "gamble" on an "unreliable" German car because it drives so well. Otherwise, I would have kept on buying much cheaper and reliable Japanese cars.
C450 has these differences from C400 (and I'm just talking power-train and suspension)-
1. Better engine with higher torque and power.
2. Faster shifting version of the 7AT transmission that shifts in 1/2 the time as the transmission in the C300/400.
3. Electro-magnetically dampened suspension that is lifted straight from the C63.
4. Brakes that are lifted from the C63.
5. "permanent" 67/33 rear/front drive power split that only changes from rear-wheel bias when it is forced to due to wheel slip.
All in all that adds up to a LOT of difference between your C400 and new C450, you are deluding yourself to think it's a few "minor" changes.
C400 was not selling well. Every auto publication review of it was very ho-hum with more than a couple saying they actually preferred the C300 as it felt more sorted.
Initial reviews of C450 are glowingly positive.
So, sorry you got in a year early and missed out on the improvements but trying to be dismissive of them as being "minor" is getting comical to the rest of us.
I'm sure for your next act you go test drive a C450 once they are available and write a review thread post in which you insist that your car is as good or better than C450.... cuz, haters gotta hate.
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
BMW 335i
meanwhile.....I'm just watching the fireworks Dealer told me 19" AMG multispoke with black inserts are backordered indef so i told them to hold my deposit until the 450 was ready with ALL options...
And now...back to the show
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
2013 BMW 328xi
No fireworks here, I'm just a realist who tells it like it is. Some people get too emotionally invested in this crap.
I'm delaying putting my order in until my broker gets final numbers on the options as well as what kind of over-invoice pricing the Mercedes joint he deals with is willing to do.
Worst case I will be getting a 340xi.
First world problems.
I'm delaying putting my order in until my broker gets final numbers on the options as well as what kind of over-invoice pricing the Mercedes joint he deals with is willing to do.
Worst case I will be getting a 340xi.
First world problems.
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
BMW 335i
No fireworks here, I'm just a realist who tells it like it is. Some people get too emotionally invested in this crap.
I'm delaying putting my order in until my broker gets final numbers on the options as well as what kind of over-invoice pricing the Mercedes joint he deals with is willing to do.
Worst case I will be getting a 340xi.
First world problems.
I'm delaying putting my order in until my broker gets final numbers on the options as well as what kind of over-invoice pricing the Mercedes joint he deals with is willing to do.
Worst case I will be getting a 340xi.
First world problems.
Lol I know I'm kidding....but yeah I left my deposit at the dealer because prices of options keep fluctuating so between that and waiting for MB to have the 19" AMG rims available...I will just keep "suffering" in my '12 335i
First world problems indeed :-)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,351
Likes: 22
From: Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Porcelain Bus
You should. Its a ton better than the standard radio. The better nav, Burmeister, the safety suite and real leather are must haves on a car at this price level. The adaptive LED headlights are not entirely necessary but theyv are superb. Buying the C450 in base form is silly since you'll be missing stuff that is standard on entry level Subarus, even Honda Fits. If your C450 is not costing you 60K plus, you are wasting your time.
FYI, dealer called today saying there's a constrain on diamond white metallic paint until mid-late November. So our mid Sept delivery is now early December.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 703
Likes: 68
From: Boston Area
2021 Mojave Silver E450, 2024 Black on Black Jaguar F-pace P400, 2011 335d (RIP), 2010 E350 (sold)
Sounds like you are trying awfully hard to justify your own choices. In base form the C450 is still a very well equipped car and the performance should be terrific.
My current ride has $6,000 in options and I would not miss nearly any of them. In-car navigation is overrated, my phone does a better job. Leather? The vinyl seating surfaces are so good now that your typical lay-person would swear they are real cowhide.
Safety features? What safety features do you need to drive a compact sedan? The most necessary one (blind spot detection) is standard.
About the only thing in base form I would personally object to is the red seat belts but I imagine I would learn to live with it. If Burmeister is priced reasonably I would probably spring for that. Very few other options are needed for ME personally to enjoy the car but if you and others want to pay $10K more for the same car with a leather interior and lots of bells and whistles go for it.
My current ride has $6,000 in options and I would not miss nearly any of them. In-car navigation is overrated, my phone does a better job. Leather? The vinyl seating surfaces are so good now that your typical lay-person would swear they are real cowhide.
Safety features? What safety features do you need to drive a compact sedan? The most necessary one (blind spot detection) is standard.
About the only thing in base form I would personally object to is the red seat belts but I imagine I would learn to live with it. If Burmeister is priced reasonably I would probably spring for that. Very few other options are needed for ME personally to enjoy the car but if you and others want to pay $10K more for the same car with a leather interior and lots of bells and whistles go for it.
Regarding safety features, I also believe that front end collision prevention is standard.
It seems that the Burmester sound system is priced at $2100 (the only item in the P2 package - not sure why they call it a package). The DOG has the price TBA but others are showing 2.1k. Does anyone else think that is way overpriced for the only upgrade to the sound system? Hell, the drivers assistance package with everything that it delivers is only $2800 - seems like a total bargain compared to simply upgrading to surround sound.
HK was what $950 (in the w204/w212 etc)- similar in BMW. Hell, I don't even need a $1k upgraded radio, but I would pay it simply because of the absolute crap base audio in my BMW. I'll admit I am not a total audiophile, but I can tell the difference between low quality and decent - I just need decent but it looks like that is not available. I also thought that the Burmester was just over $1k last year in areas where it wasn't part of the premium pkg. Am I wrong here?
Last edited by ddeliber; Jun 29, 2015 at 11:33 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 301
Likes: 19
2015 W205
The 2016 w205 guide lists Premium 2 for $2100, which includes Burmester, base LED lights, and heated seats. The C450 guide only lists the Burmester. And while pictures show the $800 LED light package on the car in the C450 guide nowhere in the description of standard features in the guide are heated seats or LED headlights mentioned. I am guessing the C450 will be the same as the other w205s. LED + heated seats + Burmester souud for your $2100
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,846
Likes: 291
From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
Faster shifting with the same 7G plus transmission, you must be smoking??!!
The C450 is simply a new name for basicly the same car with a slightly higher rated same engine with a different suspension and torque split. . I just think its ridiculous to pay over 50K for faux leather and not have a rear view camera plus have a mediocre stereo. The autocruise and auto braking are top of the industry so why not spend the bucks to have the same stuff as a Subaru. That way your secretary cant boast of having a better equipped car than you! By the way MB TEX may look OK but the leather seats make them look feel and fit cheap. Nothing feels as nice as air coming through the seat on a hot summer day. Keeps you from having a sweaty butt.
I don't have to justify my buy, I can afford it. Heck I even splurged on the foot operated rear trunk opener (like the ford escape LOL). Unlike you apparently, I bought the car because I like how it drives, looks and because it was relatively "affordable". This is my fist "gamble" on an "unreliable" German car because it drives so well. Otherwise, I would have kept on buying much cheaper and reliable Japanese cars.
The C450 is simply a new name for basicly the same car with a slightly higher rated same engine with a different suspension and torque split. . I just think its ridiculous to pay over 50K for faux leather and not have a rear view camera plus have a mediocre stereo. The autocruise and auto braking are top of the industry so why not spend the bucks to have the same stuff as a Subaru. That way your secretary cant boast of having a better equipped car than you! By the way MB TEX may look OK but the leather seats make them look feel and fit cheap. Nothing feels as nice as air coming through the seat on a hot summer day. Keeps you from having a sweaty butt.
I don't have to justify my buy, I can afford it. Heck I even splurged on the foot operated rear trunk opener (like the ford escape LOL). Unlike you apparently, I bought the car because I like how it drives, looks and because it was relatively "affordable". This is my fist "gamble" on an "unreliable" German car because it drives so well. Otherwise, I would have kept on buying much cheaper and reliable Japanese cars.
So why did you buy the even less capable C400?
Clearly you feel robbed by throwing so much hate towards C450 buyers.
The C450 smokes the C400 in all the ways the original poster listed. PERIOD.
M
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
2013 BMW 328xi
The 2016 w205 guide lists Premium 2 for $2100, which includes Burmester, base LED lights, and heated seats. The C450 guide only lists the Burmester. And while pictures show the $800 LED light package on the car in the C450 guide nowhere in the description of standard features in the guide are heated seats or LED headlights mentioned. I am guessing the C450 will be the same as the other w205s. LED + heated seats + Burmester souud for your $2100
Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 171
Likes: 1
Ferrari, Lexus, Toyota
Faster shifting with the same 7G plus transmission, you must be smoking??!!
The C450 is simply a new name for basicly the same car with a slightly higher rated same engine with a different suspension and torque split. . I just think its ridiculous to pay over 50K for faux leather and not have a rear view camera plus have a mediocre stereo. The autocruise and auto braking are top of the industry so why not spend the bucks to have the same stuff as a Subaru. That way your secretary cant boast of having a better equipped car than you! By the way MB TEX may look OK but the leather seats make them look feel and fit cheap. Nothing feels as nice as air coming through the seat on a hot summer day. Keeps you from having a sweaty butt.
I don't have to justify my buy, I can afford it. Heck I even splurged on the foot operated rear trunk opener (like the ford escape LOL). Unlike you apparently, I bought the car because I like how it drives, looks and because it was relatively "affordable". This is my fist "gamble" on an "unreliable" German car because it drives so well. Otherwise, I would have kept on buying much cheaper and reliable Japanese cars.
The C450 is simply a new name for basicly the same car with a slightly higher rated same engine with a different suspension and torque split. . I just think its ridiculous to pay over 50K for faux leather and not have a rear view camera plus have a mediocre stereo. The autocruise and auto braking are top of the industry so why not spend the bucks to have the same stuff as a Subaru. That way your secretary cant boast of having a better equipped car than you! By the way MB TEX may look OK but the leather seats make them look feel and fit cheap. Nothing feels as nice as air coming through the seat on a hot summer day. Keeps you from having a sweaty butt.
I don't have to justify my buy, I can afford it. Heck I even splurged on the foot operated rear trunk opener (like the ford escape LOL). Unlike you apparently, I bought the car because I like how it drives, looks and because it was relatively "affordable". This is my fist "gamble" on an "unreliable" German car because it drives so well. Otherwise, I would have kept on buying much cheaper and reliable Japanese cars.
C4004matic returns from being suspended, with more posts of how his C400 is great, and everyone else must be 'smoking' as he puts it.
There's not much about C450 that's the same. Just because you own the ill fated C400 doesn't change this. Not many liked the handling of the C400, very few sold and they were heavily discounted. Just because you own one, doesn't change this.
The C450 has entirely different suspension, different balance front/rear for AWD to account for nose heaviness, AMG components and tuning, the list goes on. It's fine if you like your car, and think it's replacement isn't affordable or right for you. But it's not the same car, and is honestly priced pretty aggressively well by Mercedes.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,351
Likes: 22
From: Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Porcelain Bus
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
2013 BMW 328xi
Local dealer has confirmed that "fixed" LED headlights are standard.
I also notice an option for rear-side airbags... these aren't standard now? I'm pretty sure that every other sedan in this class includes full curtain airbags for both front and rear passengers.
I also notice an option for rear-side airbags... these aren't standard now? I'm pretty sure that every other sedan in this class includes full curtain airbags for both front and rear passengers.
