C450 Acceleration Testing
11-17-2015, 05:13 PM
#76
Member
Thanks!
It barely had 3000kms (2000miles) on it!
And it's such a no brainer to launch! Especially compared to my old rear drive AMGs or even my old C5 Vette (which ran the same #'s with a modified V8 and lighter body!)
It barely had 3000kms (2000miles) on it!
And it's such a no brainer to launch! Especially compared to my old rear drive AMGs or even my old C5 Vette (which ran the same #'s with a modified V8 and lighter body!)
11-19-2015, 12:27 PM
#77
Member
I just looked at cajun's times on his C450 with the VividRacing piggyback! Take that thing off and go try it out again... You should be running a 13.0 stock... If it runs the same numbers, get a refund bud!
11-19-2015, 12:54 PM
#78
Cajun was a noob when it came to track testing though, he said it himself it was his first time.
That being said, I am hesitant on getting a piggyback for these cars. I'd rather see an actual ECU flash and the numbers behind that than a simple plug and play.
A gentleman in a C400 has the AMR tune on his ECU and ran 108, so I am thinking a flash on the C450 might be able to get to 110ish...
As mentioned in my earlier posts the C450 is about 300whp stock, and 320twq...at a weight of about 4000lbs it should trap around 108 mph stock...I'm thinking a proper flash could gain around 40 whp but I am not sure what to expect as this is all speculative.
What we need is an experienced driver on the forum to take his/her C450 to the track stock, get a good 60ft and see where we are stock. I'd volunteer although all my racing experience unfortunately has been at stoplights or on highways (closed courses of course : ) )
That being said, I am hesitant on getting a piggyback for these cars. I'd rather see an actual ECU flash and the numbers behind that than a simple plug and play.
A gentleman in a C400 has the AMR tune on his ECU and ran 108, so I am thinking a flash on the C450 might be able to get to 110ish...
As mentioned in my earlier posts the C450 is about 300whp stock, and 320twq...at a weight of about 4000lbs it should trap around 108 mph stock...I'm thinking a proper flash could gain around 40 whp but I am not sure what to expect as this is all speculative.
What we need is an experienced driver on the forum to take his/her C450 to the track stock, get a good 60ft and see where we are stock. I'd volunteer although all my racing experience unfortunately has been at stoplights or on highways (closed courses of course : ) )
11-19-2015, 02:23 PM
#79
Member
Thread Starter
Cajun's 60' time is over 2 sec,but his speed was 109.The 109 shows enough power to be under 13 sec.I don't know if he had ESP off,was in S+,and brake torqued.I asked him the question but did not get a response.I know from personal experience that you get a bog at the start if you don't do the 3 things I suggested.His speed should be worth a 12.8 ET
11-19-2015, 02:29 PM
#80
Member
Thread Starter
Cajun was a noob when it came to track testing though, he said it himself it was his first time.
That being said, I am hesitant on getting a piggyback for these cars. I'd rather see an actual ECU flash and the numbers behind that than a simple plug and play.
A gentleman in a C400 has the AMR tune on his ECU and ran 108, so I am thinking a flash on the C450 might be able to get to 110ish...
As mentioned in my earlier posts the C450 is about 300whp stock, and 320twq...at a weight of about 4000lbs it should trap around 108 mph stock...I'm thinking a proper flash could gain around 40 whp but I am not sure what to expect as this is all speculative.
What we need is an experienced driver on the forum to take his/her C450 to the track stock, get a good 60ft and see where we are stock. I'd volunteer although all my racing experience unfortunately has been at stoplights or on highways (closed courses of course : ) )
That being said, I am hesitant on getting a piggyback for these cars. I'd rather see an actual ECU flash and the numbers behind that than a simple plug and play.
A gentleman in a C400 has the AMR tune on his ECU and ran 108, so I am thinking a flash on the C450 might be able to get to 110ish...
As mentioned in my earlier posts the C450 is about 300whp stock, and 320twq...at a weight of about 4000lbs it should trap around 108 mph stock...I'm thinking a proper flash could gain around 40 whp but I am not sure what to expect as this is all speculative.
What we need is an experienced driver on the forum to take his/her C450 to the track stock, get a good 60ft and see where we are stock. I'd volunteer although all my racing experience unfortunately has been at stoplights or on highways (closed courses of course : ) )
I have plenty of drag race experience,but strips up here are closed until Spring.I will continue to test with my GT2 and report results.I want to wait until I have 5000 miles to do further testing to see if the engine loosens up.
11-20-2015, 11:51 AM
#81
Super Member
Cajun's 60' time is over 2 sec,but his speed was 109.The 109 shows enough power to be under 13 sec.I don't know if he had ESP off,was in S+,and brake torqued.I asked him the question but did not get a response.I know from personal experience that you get a bog at the start if you don't do the 3 things I suggested.His speed should be worth a 12.8 ET
11-20-2015, 12:08 PM
#82
Super Member
sorry for the delayed response its been a crazy week. I was in sports + with esp turned off but not in dyno mode so technically esp wasnt fully off.im not sure what brake torqued is so im sure i didnt do that. I will be going back to the track with a friend in a week or so and running it again with the tune off and on with a more experienced driver.
11-20-2015, 05:12 PM
#84
Member
Thread Starter
Brake torquing involves having your foot on the brake while pressing on the gas to build up the RPMs (usually like 3k) then letting go of the brake are you jam on the accelerator. I wouldn't recommend doing this all the time as it can put a lot of stress on the torque converter.
11-20-2015, 11:31 PM
#85
C450 Tune--My Mistake
Hi guys, I wanted to set the record straight on a comment I made in a seperate thread, but is surely applicable here in regards to ECU flashes for our cars.
I mistakenly thought the GL450 that OE tuning tuned, was a different engine/powertrain than our Mercedes. I believe I was wrong and want to apologize.
A member named Cajun started a c450 website and on it, a vendor broadcasts an ECU flash available for the C450 that shows substantial gains and also claims it is the same tune for a GLE450 and GL450.
I dug deeper, and in fact the 2015 GL450 has the same m276 dela 30 engine that the C450 has. This then means, the ~100 whp, 120 wtq based on an ECU flash (gains for 91 octane on get this, a mainline dyno--notorious heart breakers) should be applicable to the C450.
In summary then, this tune would make the car an absolute animal given these gains on a mainline dyno roughly equate to about 140 whp 170 wtq on a "dynojet."
Again this is all speculative but one can imagine what an extra 100whp can do to a car that I believe traps 108 ish stock : )
Sorry OE tuning, and keep up the good work
I mistakenly thought the GL450 that OE tuning tuned, was a different engine/powertrain than our Mercedes. I believe I was wrong and want to apologize.
A member named Cajun started a c450 website and on it, a vendor broadcasts an ECU flash available for the C450 that shows substantial gains and also claims it is the same tune for a GLE450 and GL450.
I dug deeper, and in fact the 2015 GL450 has the same m276 dela 30 engine that the C450 has. This then means, the ~100 whp, 120 wtq based on an ECU flash (gains for 91 octane on get this, a mainline dyno--notorious heart breakers) should be applicable to the C450.
In summary then, this tune would make the car an absolute animal given these gains on a mainline dyno roughly equate to about 140 whp 170 wtq on a "dynojet."
Again this is all speculative but one can imagine what an extra 100whp can do to a car that I believe traps 108 ish stock : )
Sorry OE tuning, and keep up the good work
11-21-2015, 11:27 AM
#86
I'd be careful with how small the intercooler is and with those power gains. I'm sure boost is pretty high that air has to be getting real hot and the stock intercooler isn't going to do the job which can result in detonation due to cylinders getting to hot especially in the summer. Not to mention once that air heats up ur making less power.
11-21-2015, 11:56 AM
#87
Good call on the intercooler ^ and I have no idea what the long term implications are of running such power. The site says 16 psi boost, which I assume is the spike, and given that this is a Mercedes Benz I am sure the stock internals and driveterrain are super stout.
Furthermore, I spoke to a gentleman at OE who sent me the AFRs for the above flash and the tune is in a very conservative range which is nice and he assured me these Merecedes motors/trannies can handle far more abuse.
We will see, I am on the fence at the moment about flashing the ECU sooner than later. I will for sure do it, it's just a matter of when. I think we all just need to be a bit more patient and give these tuners a bit more time.
Furthermore, I spoke to a gentleman at OE who sent me the AFRs for the above flash and the tune is in a very conservative range which is nice and he assured me these Merecedes motors/trannies can handle far more abuse.
We will see, I am on the fence at the moment about flashing the ECU sooner than later. I will for sure do it, it's just a matter of when. I think we all just need to be a bit more patient and give these tuners a bit more time.
Last edited by sliqdaddy91; 11-21-2015 at 11:58 AM.
11-21-2015, 04:08 PM
#88
Member
Thread Starter
Good call on the intercooler ^ and I have no idea what the long term implications are of running such power. The site says 16 psi boost, which I assume is the spike, and given that this is a Mercedes Benz I am sure the stock internals and driveterrain are super stout.
Furthermore, I spoke to a gentleman at OE who sent me the AFRs for the above flash and the tune is in a very conservative range which is nice and he assured me these Merecedes motors/trannies can handle far more abuse.
We will see, I am on the fence at the moment about flashing the ECU sooner than later. I will for sure do it, it's just a matter of when. I think we all just need to be a bit more patient and give these tuners a bit more time.
Furthermore, I spoke to a gentleman at OE who sent me the AFRs for the above flash and the tune is in a very conservative range which is nice and he assured me these Merecedes motors/trannies can handle far more abuse.
We will see, I am on the fence at the moment about flashing the ECU sooner than later. I will for sure do it, it's just a matter of when. I think we all just need to be a bit more patient and give these tuners a bit more time.
11-23-2015, 10:05 PM
#90
Super Moderator
Brake torquing involves having your foot on the brake while pressing on the gas to build up the RPMs (usually like 3k) then letting go of the brake are you jam on the accelerator. I wouldn't recommend doing this all the time as it can put a lot of stress on the torque converter.
EDIT: Fluid overheating is a separate issue. If the car starts holding gears to higher RPM you know you have overheated the fluid & it is diverting more fluid via the cooler at higher pump speed which = transmission input shaft speed. That said the TC is the largest single source of fluid heating.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 11-23-2015 at 10:12 PM.
11-23-2015, 11:22 PM
#91
Member
I too am looking at OE Tuning and sent them an email and followed up with a phone call last Friday...
Spoke with Pat who's a really nice guy... It was like speaking with an old friend!
I have also heard great things about Jeremy the owner of OE Tuning. If he put those numbers on his website, it means he's done all of his due diligence & homework!
And yes, with those numbers, the C400 & C450 would be absolute beasts, especially with the 4matic! Look at those torque numbers! I wouldn't be surprised if this tune would outright beat the C63s!
Spoke with Pat who's a really nice guy... It was like speaking with an old friend!
I have also heard great things about Jeremy the owner of OE Tuning. If he put those numbers on his website, it means he's done all of his due diligence & homework!
And yes, with those numbers, the C400 & C450 would be absolute beasts, especially with the 4matic! Look at those torque numbers! I wouldn't be surprised if this tune would outright beat the C63s!
11-24-2015, 03:29 AM
#92
Member
Thread Starter
Good advice. Running the TC into stall can be extremely damaging to the TC itself. The transmission can now take the torque on high torque version.
EDIT: Fluid overheating is a separate issue. If the car starts holding gears to higher RPM you know you have overheated the fluid & it is diverting more fluid via the cooler at higher pump speed which = transmission input shaft speed. That said the TC is the largest single source of fluid heating.
EDIT: Fluid overheating is a separate issue. If the car starts holding gears to higher RPM you know you have overheated the fluid & it is diverting more fluid via the cooler at higher pump speed which = transmission input shaft speed. That said the TC is the largest single source of fluid heating.
Last edited by oldman&theC; 11-24-2015 at 04:54 AM.
11-25-2015, 11:45 AM
#94
Super Member
Good call on the intercooler ^ and I have no idea what the long term implications are of running such power. The site says 16 psi boost, which I assume is the spike, and given that this is a Mercedes Benz I am sure the stock internals and driveterrain are super stout.
Furthermore, I spoke to a gentleman at OE who sent me the AFRs for the above flash and the tune is in a very conservative range which is nice and he assured me these Merecedes motors/trannies can handle far more abuse.
We will see, I am on the fence at the moment about flashing the ECU sooner than later. I will for sure do it, it's just a matter of when. I think we all just need to be a bit more patient and give these tuners a bit more time.
Furthermore, I spoke to a gentleman at OE who sent me the AFRs for the above flash and the tune is in a very conservative range which is nice and he assured me these Merecedes motors/trannies can handle far more abuse.
We will see, I am on the fence at the moment about flashing the ECU sooner than later. I will for sure do it, it's just a matter of when. I think we all just need to be a bit more patient and give these tuners a bit more time.
I can vouch for OE as I have their tune on my c350. I still would like to see a dyno from actual members with the 450 engine. A lot of these tuners advertise PEAK HP + TQ numbers which are not useable to 90% of the buyers. I would like to see the low-end and midrange HP + TQ increase, not peak HP + TQ in a specific gear near 6000+ RPM.
I was advertised a +25hp & 25tq increase for my tune however, I rarely see that as the useable HP + TQ increase. What I actually gained useable was about 8HP-14TQ increase. This was on AWD dyno.
cajun1689 should definitely be in the 12's if he can get the 60s down. If he can get 1.7-1.9 he should be at least 12.8-12.9.
11-25-2015, 12:18 PM
#95
Member
Hey guys - sorry if this is a dumb question, but I can't figure out the stream of numbers on page 1 and this whole discussion is way over my head.
Have you guys been able to do a 0-100km or 0-60mph test and, if so, what were the numbers and how do they compare to the manufacturer reported numbers?
Have you guys been able to do a 0-100km or 0-60mph test and, if so, what were the numbers and how do they compare to the manufacturer reported numbers?
11-27-2015, 08:59 AM
#96
Member
Thread Starter
Performance Meter Accuracy
If anyone doubts the accuracy of performance meters I suggest you search under"do inexpensive performance meters work".Car & Driver tested a bunch of these meters several years ago.They proved to be extremely accurate.When installed & set up properly they were within hundreths of a sec of the drag strip timer.My GT2 was within .05 of the drag strip timer,and the speed was slightly lower than the drag strip.This is exactly what Car & Driver found.
12-04-2015, 10:01 PM
#99
Member
12-05-2015, 02:21 AM
#100
Member
Thread Starter
Anxiously waiting for your results.Remember "shallow stage" barely turn the second light on,torque brake to about 2000 rpm,Sport+,let the trans shift automaticaly,traction control off.You should be solidly in the 12 sec range.I predict 12.7 at 111 mph.
Last edited by oldman&theC; 12-05-2015 at 06:58 AM.
