topsider

Look for another change in the C43 lineup in a year or two, unbelievable!

http://blog.caranddriver.com/new-mercedes-inline-six-will-have-mild-hybrid-as-standard/

inhartwetrust

Isn't this exactly what everyone was already expecting?

Quickburn7

Will everyone who cancelled their C450 order for the C43 now cancel that and wait for the new engine?

topsider

I was expecting this, but not to replace every V6 so soon.

alexasa

iTrader: (1)

Electric power is the new replacement for forced induction.

fine with me.

DapperStyle

I think I read that the plan is to have batteries power the turbos too, instant turbo with none of the lag.

tmoneyC450amg

Looks like I will be trading in my C450 in 3years

inhartwetrust

Yup...maybe I should just lease the C43 instead of buying it and looking to trade it in after 3 or so years? I guess that will depend on the MF and residuals MBFS puts out, and the interest rate I am able to secure on a loan.

InTheBenz0

C43 is going to lease like crap.

1) AMG car will have standard money factor

2) residuals on AMG cars are always worse due to the fact of a higher depreciation

3) C450 right now has a free $1800 cash from MB. For ease of math that free $1800 on a 36 month lease is $50/month.

I only will lease new luxury brands, not worth to buy and lose your you know what.

I did a rough conversion on a $60K C43 and C450 - the 2 will have a drastic lease price difference.

You will be looking at almost $200 more a month for a c43 vs the current c450.

DapperStyle

If true the bean counters at MB should expect a nice raise, by rebadging the C450 they've increased their profits tremendously without doing much development wise.

InTheBenz0

100%. Being that I lease, I am not paying close to $200 a month more for virtually the same car. I pick my car up before the end of the month. I was tempted to wait, for $40-50 maybe 60 bux more, I would have waited, but its going to be very significant price increase when choosing to lease.

topsider

now I just wish they'd bump the 300 up to around 280hp to fill the gap a little. The 328i which has *1* fewer horsepower and much less torque hits 60 in the low 5 second range, while we are above 6. The new 330i replacing that will be even quicker with it's new engine and more torque.

DapperStyle

I'll be frank I really don't know why MB decided to make a standard car and 2 AMG models instead of the Standard, Amg Sport then full blown AMG. Those options are better than the current set up which now forces anyone who doesn't want a turbo 4 cylinder into an AMG car, with AMG pricing/maintenance/insurance etc. I think they should bring back the C400 now that the 450 is turning into C43.

topsider

Agreed, and now I think they want the C350e to bridge that gap from 300 to 43, but a problem with that for example is that you can't even get that car with the sport body styling because of the plug cover in the rear bumper. shame

DapperStyle

The same 350e that there is barely any information on, that dealers aren't selling, that will be facelifted next year along with the rest of the line up. MB is clueless and their lack of clear direction (C400/C450 now C43) is worrisome. Look at the new E, there is an E400 but it likely won't be produced as they are following the same E300, E43/E63 line up.

Here's an E400 I spotted in April testing in NYC:



Just make the stupid C400 again!

autopal

Not necessarily correct in this case. This new straight 6 engine will still have two traditional turbos, with the turbine driven by the exhaust, as usual. The electric motor will do most of its work at startup, idle and low speed, essentially elliminating lag, lower emmissions, and most likely some small improvements in fuel economy. At high RPMs, and under load, the turbos will work just as they do now. I'm fascinated to hear how this electric motor will change the sound of the car, but knowing the mad men at AMG, I am not at all worried

inhartwetrust

Didn't C450s already follow the AMG depreciation and MF? I thought they did, but I could be incorrect.

autopal

Any means that is used to pump air in the engine is really forced induction. I can't see turbos going away, as the cheap energy from the exhaust gasses is what makes turbo attractive. What I do see happening, is that more manufactures will use small electric motor to spin the turbos from idle, with the exhaust gasses taking over the job as RPMs climb. The net effect of this will be to eliminate turbo lag, and the throttle response will essentially feel like a large displacement naturally aspirated engine. Any posters with knowledge of this subject care to express an opinion?

Germancar1

The mild hybrid description is wrong. The car won't have any ability to move on electric power alone. These I6s will also be turbocharged, not sure why some think that is going away. Yes, the model designations are going to change again. It is an unfortunate consequence of the new engines not being ready for the 2015 launch so they've been scrambling to stay competitive with old V6 engines and thus having to change up the badges so much. The C400 to C450 to C43 change I've never seen anything like it before. Borderline schizophrenic.

There is a chart on other site that shows where the new I6 will come in 367hp, 435hp and 490hp variants for the E400, E500 and E55 variants. Yes E55. Not sure which variants will go into the C-Class, way too much speculation.

M

DapperStyle

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in their meetings. Knowing that timelines are done years in advance I'm wondering if there was some internal strife or hiring/firing which made them change directions so quickly. I mean they killed AMG Sport branding before they could even promote it, it's very strange.

autopal

Yup, spot on. It's very possible that this C43 will also be a one year wonder, with the 2018 model being called something else and sporting a 400hp straight six. If I was looking to buy a C43 though, I would not let that stop me, every year there's improvements

InTheBenz0

The C450's MF is actually lower than the C300 for June. The standard money factor for benz I believe is .00225. The base MF for C450 is .00119

topsider

Yes, the article says that they won't be able to move on electric power alone I guess they just got their definitions mixed up

Germancar1

You have to understand that MB and BMW are just like Ford and Chevy, they're locked in an eternal pissing contest. MB's AMG Sport was dropped so they could claim more "AMG" only sales. Now their "AMG" sales are going through the roof because the C450, GLE450 and the like are all counted right along with the true AMGs like the E63, C63, S65, SL63 etc. It was all done to beat the snot out of BMW's M division sales. BMW started this with the their M235, M550d models, M Sport models left and right. They have the M235 and the M2 also so MB had to counter call everything an "AMG" or Mercedes-AMG if you will. Its all about branding and sales numbers. It's a shame really because IMO AMG Sport fit perfectly. It still separated the hand built, true AMGs from the base cars. Oh well lol.


Mercedes goofed IMO because Audi has S and leaves RS for their more serious models. BMW still has M Sport and M, so there was nothing wrong with AMG and AMG Sport.

M

inhartwetrust

Ah, damn I didn't realize the standard MF's were so high. When I ordered my C450 for lease in March the MF was 0.00129, I assumed that was around standard...I guess I hadn't considered the fact that they were just then starting to give the C450's away to get them off the lots (although mine was custom order, I barely made the cut off).

Plugging that .00225 into the spreadsheet and looking at the monthly payment, even with max MSD's, I'm pretty much an idiot if I don't just finance it with the 1.99% rates that are out there now. The 10% off MSRP I got, plus my fleet discount, will help to offset some of the depreciation hit I'll take when I look to sell it in 3 or 4 years.