RCTMan

I have seen several posts that state the 030 package includes LSD, modified suspension, and body kit, but the MBUSA web site only lists front brakes, steering wheel, and rims. Is there a more detailed description of the package on the MB site that I am missing? Is there a difference between the European 030 and the American 030?

MB Fanatic

Lets put it this way, MBUSA has a poorly detailed site. Best bet, call MBUSA directly and tell them to give you all the specs on the 030 Performance Package.

From my knowledge, here is what the 030 has:

Alcantra Steering Wheel
Heavily modified suspension
Wider rear fenders, just slightly though
2 piece rotors
Ceramic brake pads
19" AMG 2 piece wheels
Limited Slip Differential

Schiznick

How about www.mercedes-amg.com

Look under the showroom tab. They list Performance Packages.....

A few pictures and what is included in the package.

RCTMan

Thanks for the replies. I'm leaning towards a CLS63 with 030 over the M5. Seems like the 030 will take care of the performance differential.

AMG-1

Agree with you. That 's what I have on order (for 12 months now) CLS63 030 package...the unknown is when that will come in ...... my guess 3 quarter 2006 at best...don't want the 55 because I already had a 2004 E55. The 63 should be a better engine...why would AMG go backwards in performance?...especially given the race with BMW M.

ClayJ

The package contents differ among the different vehicles....

RCTMan

I've always been a BMW enthusiast, but the recent designs have really turned me off. Additonally, the SMG seems to make the car unuseable as a daily driver, unless you simply are willing to put up with it. It seems that the consensus is that the M is a better performing car at 100% (ie track use), but how many people use their vehicles like that (I'd get a 911 for that)? I have a '03 E500 and have not been very happy with steering, brakes, and overall feel of the car. I can't wait to get rid of it. I am hoping that the 030 pack will make the Merc feel more like a BMW, with the styling of the CLS. The AMG site has much better info than the MBUSA site, but it still does not list the suspension mods. I know calling MB might yield more info, but I want to see it in writing.

ClayJ

The 5.5 S/C engine is an absolutely world-class, fantastic motor. The new 6.3 will be great but will NOT develop the torque of the 5.5 S/C. Mated to the 7 speed transmission the 6.3 may make up some ground in acceleration - but nobody thinks that it will be able to favorably compare to the 5.5 S/C.
If you had a 500, there is no doubt that the handling would dissapoint you vs. an AMG version MBZ.... No large front engine MBZ (if any MBZ) is going to compare favorably to a BMW in the handling department, however, as BMW goes to great lengths to get the balance and keep the front end weight down to achieve that handling (like 'smaller' V8 motors, a mostly aluminum front end, etc.). The AMG versions do get different shocks and springs, and may even include different control-arm geometries/materials, etc. The airmatic suspension is really quite impressive in and of itself. I have a feeling that the 'Nurburgring' suspension in the 030 package is just a slight stiffening-up of the AMG suspension (haven't driven it so don't know myself, but that is what I seem to be hearing and that would be my guess in any event without direct experience).
BMW's and MBZ's really are very different cars, from the design up through the build, and each offers different 'plusses' -- I think that you should drive a few of the new offerings of each and make your decision from there.... Just my $ 02.

RCTMan

ClayJ, thanks for the reply. I've never driven a 55 and I know the 63 has less torque, but can you use all the torque of the 55 without the traction control intervening? I have a friend who builds drag racing type cars that he also drives on the street and his take is that without drag slicks at low pressure and a drag type suspension setup (I guess it squats more and gives you more bite) all that torque is not utilized. He ends up just smoking the wheels when he is running street tires. I am not into drag racing at all, especially on the street, but it seems that the trade off with the new motor is more HP, more than enough useable torque, and a 50 pound decrease in weight. We won't know until we see the car, but with the new tranny, I'm guessing the acceleration will match or beat the 55 and it will handle better(less weight up front). Well at least that is what I am hoping for. I can't imagine Mercedes building a new car that takes a step back in performance.

ClayJ

I'm not sure that the 6.3 will weigh less than the 5.5 with supercharger -- haven't heard anything definative on that yet. The 7-speed tranny works very well, even better than the 5-speed, and with the closer ratios should really work for smooth acceleration...but I'm not sure that the difference in torque can be offset.
I've got the E55 wagon specifically because it has better weight balance and more weight on the drive wheels than the sedan I can mash it straight through and whether or not the ESP kicks in doesn't matter -- smooth as silk straight through. I don't drag though.
Guys who drag the sedan go with slicks and/or LSD's (which are available from ? and the wait-time on an AMG Manufaktur one is like 6 mos).
Back to the E55 though - with good tires the handling isn't bad at all, and the 5.5 S/C motor is one of the sweetest motors of all time.... We'll see about the 6.3 -- if it does indeed cut the front weight down enough (by my calcs it would have to be about 150 lbs to make a difference) it would be great if it does for the handling what the extra weight on the rear of the wagon does.

RCTMan

This is copied and pasted from Edmunds.com and I saw one other publication(can't remember which one) that listed the actual weights of each,

'Plus, it emits less carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon than the blown 5.5-liter, and it weighs 55 pounds less, mainly due to the elimination of the heavy supercharger. "The weight loss was one of the points of going to normally aspirated," says Jan Stotz, who is the head of project management at AMG. When we asked him what his title means, he said, "This engine is my baby."'

Automobile mag lists the 63 weight as 439 lbs.

AMG-1

Ok...I had a E55 2004. The torque was fun.....BUT...the new 63 engine has 465 ft-pound.@ 5200rpm ..that is not too far from the 520 of the 55 engine....More importantly...the new M5 has only 383 ft-pound @ 6100rpm......that is quite a bit less....And yet: I drove the new M5 3 weeks ago...and let me tell you....you could have told me the engine had a supercharger and I would have beleived it.... Therefore...the 63 with 465 Ft-pound coming sooner (5200rpm) should only be even better.....I think the difference will be made up vs. the 55 engine... I realize that people have bought CLS 55 and are super happy with it...I agree....but really...why would AMG not improve on every parameter...Test drives are key.....as I said...the M5 felt impressive ...nothing to be desired v.s. my E55...This is why I am excited about the new 63 (designed and built from the grounds up by AMG).....

RCTMan

I agree with you 100% AMG-1. I think the torque of the new motor is going to be more than adequate, especially since it is available very early in the RPM band. Here's another quote from the Automobile Mag article on the 63 engine, "At 2000 rpm, 369 lb-ft of torque is available, with 413 lb-ft at 3000 rpm. This engine almost redefines the term "flat torque curve....465 lb-ft at 5200 revs".
The only thing that I am concerned about is the 030 performance package. The total price for composite brakes, suspension, body mods, rims, LSD, and steering wheel is less than $10,000 yet Porsche charges about $8000 for the composite brakes alone. Is Porsche just over priced? or is Merc leaving something out. It's probably a bit of both.
I still love the car due to its combination of performance and luxury. And as TraumaDoc stated in another post, "I am not going to race the car". I want a car that performs like a BMW and looks like a Mercedes. Why oh why did BMW make their cars so ugly?!?!?

ClayJ

I re-read the Automobile Mag write-up and the AMG PR on the 6.3. Yes it appears to be a weight savings (enough of one?); it appears that it is a screamer (testers didn't miss the 5.5 with S/C in a track day in a CLK DTM with the new 6.3 plunked into it); and certainly it is possible that further improvements will show up on that engine -- so I'm liking it more and more....
Still will have to drive it to see what I really think of it (which will probably be in an ML63 this Spring in my case).
Oh, and Porsche (and Ferrari) on their options pricing? They ask W2F much -- worth it, but W2F much $. and MBZ gets their compensation in the original AMG-package mark-up, I think.

RCTMan

ClayJ, I agree. We will have to wait and see. The whole package sounds too good to be true, but I am hoping it is true. I don't want to get too excited and then be disappointed when I see the final product.

I am also slightly interested in the ML63 because of my three little ones. I would probably be in the new 911 if not for the kids, but we do a lot of activities together on the weekends so I need the space. I assume the ML will be less expensive than the CLS and still run 0-60 in 5 seconds. I wonder if they will offer the 030 for the ML. I doubt it, but that would be sweet.

MB Fanatic

The porsche has Ceramic Rotors, that where the cost comes in. The 030 on the AMG has 2 piece floating rotors with Ceramic Brake pads. Hence, the 8K cost on the porsche.

ClayJ

What I heard was that MBZ deicided that they had to compete with all of the aftermarket tuners (and their products) out there...and that somehow, AMG Manufaktur wasn't enough.....
So expect more of this type of thing (offering the 030 pkg) in the future (if people take em up on it and they sell a bunch of the pkgs?).....
I've done alot of MBZ modding at both AMG Manufaktur and at aftermarket tuners like Brabus, Renntech, Kleeman, Carlsson, MKB -- MBZ product-pricepoint on this pkg is one hell of a deal IMO....

RCTMan

MBFanatic, the Mercedes-AMG.com web site lists this, " Internally ventilated composite brake discs measuring 380 x 36mm on the front axle". I copied and pasted that from the site. I have heard what you posted about the pads before. I guess this is part of my oringinal post when I started this thread. I can't seem to get a solid list of what is actually in the 030 package. It sounds like only the front rotors are composite, which would account for some of the price differential. As ClayJ posted, this is a bargain price for the package. Additionally, MB does not list any suspension mods on the MBUSA.com site or the Mercedes-AMG.com site.

VelocitE55

One of the many great features of the M156 6.3 motor when compared to the the new BMW V10 is that from 2500rpm up, the M156 will be making more torque than the BMW V10 at it's torque peak! The M156 is going to be every bit as good or better then the MK113K in terms of performance numbers, its really going to come down to personal preference of how those numbers are delivered. The power delivery of the 6.3 will be very different but very good. BMW should be more than a little concerned.

MB Fanatic

Never believe what the MB sites say. They are never updated nor are they detailed.

The parts I originally listed above are what comes in the 030 package. I have the performance package on my CLS, too bad I can't enjoy it as I am in India.

Schiznick

Your list is not totally correct.

"Heavily Modified" My understanding is that this is different programming of the system. No hardware has been changed.

The 030 CLS does not have slightly wider fenders. The inside fender lip looks like it was rolled a bit more but I think that is now standard on all AMG CLS's.

The cost of building a slightly wider fender would be about the same as a really wider fender.

The 2 piece rotors are very similar to what is on the SL65's and the SLK55's just a different diameter. Not sure where the ceramic pad discussion came from. I thought you only had ceramic pads with ceramic rotors?????

I think a part of the problem is terminology: Composite Brakes seems to mean two types of metal in the hub and rotors vs. Ceramic.

traumadoc

Are you saying that the rear fenders of the AMG cars look slightly different than the non-AMG cars and the 030 rear fenders are the same as the non 030 AMG cars?

I just got my AMG without the 030 and thought the rear fenders look a bit different than the non AMG. I just have not seen the 2 cars side by side.

Schiznick

I was speaking of the AMG model with and without the 030 package.

I have not had a chance to compare the 55 with a 500. I would be surprised if there was a difference between the exterior of the fender between the AMG and non. I would expect that the inner fender would be different.

RCTMan

Shiznick, very good points, especially regarding the brakes. I did not catch the apparent discrepancy with the wording. Porsche calls their brakes "CERAMIC COMPOSITE" and Mercedes calls their brakes "COMPOSITE". If they are indeed just a blend of different metals (aka an ALLOY in my book), then Mercedes is playing some serious deceptive games. I don't want to believe that they would do something like that, but I would not put it past them. The implication is that the brakes are ceramic, especially since they only say the front brakes are composite. I hope they are because this would mean a further weight reduction (in additon to the motor), less unsprung weight, and a sharper, more responsive front end.

ClayJ

I am pretty sure that they are ceramic composite. They certainly weigh less than the originals, the rotors are larger in diameter, and I believe that the hats are fully free-floating -- each a worthy upgrade in performance in and of itself.
And that's apart from the rest of the package.