saespyder

First, I tried searching and couldn't find anything that specifically dealt with this. I've been lurking for a little while now and you guys seem to have a much better grasp on the capabilities on these cars than I do.

Here's the deal:

My goal is a high horsepower luxury sedan. BMW (please no), MB, Audi, or Lexus.

I've been spending some time trying to learn more about the smaller performance sedans from each to see which has the most potential to reach 450-500 rwhp. This would be a project over a few years as the budget allows, but I plan on keeping the car for a while and it would not be a daily driver.

The general concensus is that an engine with the right internals has the potential to make more power with a twin turbo setup than a blower. To reduce the initial spool time some people have run N2O for the lower rev range until the compressors really start generating good psi. Is this realistic - for MB's and the others?

Sticking with the turbo setup, I've read about staging the turbos to kick on at different RPM levels to "even out" the boost. Some have the first turbo setup that, once it hits its max psi, the blow off valve dumps back into the IC piping. Is this realistic?

The S4 doesn't seem to have much in the way of FI parts or a competent community behind it.

Lexus IS has a very active community and, because of that, very few that are unique anymore.

I like MB as the choice, but I want to start with a solid platform. Assuming a twin turbo setup is possible, would it be better to start with a C32 (remove the S/C and add the turbos, but retain the 6 cylinder) or start with the V8 from the c55? Can the 32 even reach 450 (base - s/c + turbos = ?)

Like I said, I plan on having the car for a long time and would do the project right - as in upgrading all internals necessary. I have no interest in having an engine blow up on me and would rather spend more money over a longer period just to do it right.

I just remembered - it must be a manual, so the c55 would require a tranny swap. I haven't seen anything on that; I don't have any clue if it's possible, and it's probably damn expensive.

Also, while I've been enjoying MIDO's thread, I'm not that crazy.

What do you guys think?

1. Most solid platform to use as a base (c32, s4, isxxx)?
2. Difference between forced induction possibilities?
3. Total cost per hp between a 450hp c32 and 450 c55 (excluding transmission)?

Gramma_Benz

Check this thread over in the other forum as Eurocharged just single turbo'd a Crossfire SRT6(same engine as C32) and has it putting out 428RWHP. It's still a work in progress, so it's probably capable of more.
http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/crossfire-srt6/35250-turbo-crossfire-dyno-crushes-400-hp.html

Also do a search for posts by "alumar", he has a C55 with a Kleeman Supercharger on it and he's probably putting out close to that.

Or, talk to "Hooleyboy" at MBH Motorsports as he took an E55 blower and retrofitted it to his C55 and he's putting out 450RWHP. He has the fastest C55 around, doing 11 second 1/4 miles...

Good luck!

Lenin

You are crazy.
I never heard of a manual transmission swap in a C32 or C55. Electronics alone will drive you crazy. You may be better off starting with a turbocharged Audi.

Gramma_Benz

Oh yeah, I missed the part about the Manual Transmission swap.


CTS-V

saespyder

Hah, I figured as much about the swap. I know they do great things with autos these days, but I just can't bring myself to have that kind of engine without the fun of a manual.

Something else I had been kicking around was to take the body of the c32 and swap in the v8. I'd still have the headache of fitting a new tranny to the engine, but at least the car would be ready for it.

So, what do you think. Realistically, do you think you can get the c32 up to 450? Has anyone removed the blower for a twin turbo setup, and would it produce better power to the wheels?

jturkel

check the link grammabenz posted.......that is what you are looking for

a turbo'd M112k motor without the s/c
check the link

TemjinX2

in terms of cost..your better off with a B5 audi S4. You can buy them for 9-10k and it comes in manual or auto with v6 twin turbos. You probably just need to spend another 5k and you can probably hit 500awhp pretty easily.

Or you can buy a is300 for 9k and do a 2jz-gte swap with custom mounts.

The mercedes autos can take more power then the manuals, since all the high performance mercedes are autos and the economy mercedes are manuals. Your gonna need to spend more money upgrading the manual internals if you want to do a manual swap.

cheapest way to get to 500whp with a mercedes would probably be c55 for 17k and buy a twin screw kleeman supercharger for 10k.

jturkel

i would go with one of these two options. if you want lotsa lotsa power, the bolded one is a pretty cool setup i think. i've seen one of these in person, and they are truly something.

saespyder

I actually seriously considered both. I test drove the is300 and it was a great car to drive, but I wasn't sold on the interior. I put in an offer, but didn't have too much incentive to meet him halfway.

I showed up at the dealership to test drive the s4 and they sold it that morning. Son of a b****! They had the c230 on the lot so I figured what the hell. I was really impressed after the drive and took it home the following weekend. And here we are. It's a great daily driver - sporty with good mileage and I needed a sedan.

I checked out that Crossfire and it's nice. I think that's pretty close to what I had in mind with a lot less headache than the other options.

My.IS has a ton of material on upgrading the 2J, but I think I'd be happier with the MB in the long run.

c32AMG-DTM

What's your budget?

If you're "must-haves" are 450-500 whp and manual tranny - I'm sorry to say that neither the C32 or C55 will be a good starting platform.

Agree on the B5 S4 - it really is probably your best bet. Close second (I know you said "please no") would be a BMW - maybe an E36 or E46 M3... but if it were me, I'd strongly consider an E39 M5.

I'm not as well-versed on the Japanese options... but other than the IS, most I can think of would be coupes, not sedans... and not particularly luxurious.

saespyder

Yea, that's what I was afraid of. I'm just not a huge fan of the Audi interiors, or I guess I should say I just like the MB better.

Didn't the '03 C32 come with the 6 speed manual? Meh, I still have a lot of reading to do and this project is roughly a year away anyway, so I have some time.

TemjinX2

no it didnt, but you can probably get a manual from c320 and link it up like that.

c32AMG-DTM

What about the E39 M5?
Luxo sports sedan? Check.
Manual? Check.
Huge F/I power potential? Check.

Not to mention, pre-Bangle classic styling inside and out.

I'm partial to MB interiors too, but Audi's really stepped it up in the last few years - many rate their interiors better than MB, once you get into the B6/B7 bodies.

You could attempt a huge custom MB build, but I just think you'd get better, easier results with another platform, given your preferences/constraints. Whatever you choose, good luck (and feel free to post it here - most around here appreciate all things high HP )