mikekuriger

They always get me off the line (easily!) but on the freeway I beat them. Is it a weight/gearing thing?

AMS Performance

One word: TORQUE

JonMBZ

Torque would be from a stand still ? The M3 has more of both, I would blame the driver. M3 has like 420 HP and 400 TQ

Gramma_Benz

No way man!
M3's have always been fast, but low on torque.

Try 414 HP and 295 Ft. lbs of torque at the crank.

wawy

I would think it would be close off the line due to the 376ft-lbs of torque the C55 has and then the M3 would take the lead after that..

jturkel

+1. M3s are torque-less

SoCalC55

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the new M3s can fit a substantially larger rear tire vs our pathetic 255s(discounting rolling fenders/rubbing with 265s)


that and their far superior tranny will allow the to put better power down off the line

blacksage

I could understand off the line because of the low TQ numbers, but on the highway just doesnt make sense to me. Last time I checked the M3 as geared well and had more HP...

JonMBZ

Engine
Cylinders/valves 8/4
Capacity in ccm 3,999
Stroke/bore in mm 75.2/92.0
Max. output in kW (hp) at 1/min 309 (420)/8,300
Max. torque in Nm at 1/min 400/3,900
Power-to-weight ratio (EU) in kg/hp 4.0 (4.0)

Viper98912

1 Nm = 0.738 lb-ft

jturkel

per http://www.m3forum.com/

"Supreme performance ensured by 309 kW/420 hp from 4.0 litres.
Maximum torque of 400 Newton-metres (295 lb-ft) at 3, 900 rpm, 85 per cent of maximum torque over a speed range of 6,500 rpm."

JonMBZ

oh I never read numbers beyond what they posted them as. I didn't realize they played with them like that. I thought these M3s were keeping up with C63s didn't realize they were so weak. Good to know now I need to learn the conversion in case they post them differently like that.

jturkel

+1...for at least a stock C55/32 for that matter

jturkel

they are keeping up with C63s. IIRC, ligher, DCT is apparently amazing, and gearing. C63s have more tq and hp, but more weight....they're also sexier too, but thats not the point here lol.

AMS Performance

A few people have it backwards, torque plays even more of a factor from a roll (hence why NA 55 AMGs can take down M3s at speed). Torque is king in the straights, its actually a disadvantage from a stand still due to wheel spin (unless you can get full traction off the line). M3s are also extremely aggressively geared (b/c of their high redline they can be), as a result at low speeds they get moving down the road real quick, launch control helps in that regard as well. However, once the cars are moving... that advantage no longer exists, then its just straight line torque that wins at higher speeds. On a race track different story, but in straight line AMG def has advantage from roll (I'd know) . Surprisingly even vs. DSG no speed was lost between gears against the M3. It was relatively close but AMG won once speeds started to increase.

There's no replacement for displacement...

TemjinX2

i still think the m3 should've won unless it was a manual and the guy couldn't drive. The c55 should have the m3 off the line but then the m3 should slowly walk it as it plays catch up. The more aggressive gearing and higher rev's has the m3 in its favor in higher speeds.

Keep in mind the gears multiples the tq you put to the ground. Lower tq engines generally compensate with more aggressive gears.

I really doubt a stock c55 would be able to beat a e92 m3 in a quarter or higher speed roll. Given equal drivers.

I just wanted to say that before the BMW fan boys come in here and flame the op, like in the c32 vs m5 thread.

wawy

The new M3 will walk any stock C32 or C55....

RLx02

I definitely would like to see how my C55 holds up to a e92/e90 m3 on a highway roll considering I have 410hp and 425 ft/pounds of torque at the crank. Also, take into consideration that the C55 weighs less than a e92 335i by a few pounds, so our cars are NOT heavy.

FrankW

torque gets you going....horsepower keeps you going....

e1000

Engine torque ratings mean nothing. You do realize the torque from your engine is multiplied by your gearbox and final drive ratio, then applied to the ground right? Come on guys, stock for stock a E92 M3 will walk a C32/C55. Quit dreaming.

e1000

Here, I'll make it easy for you guys:

C55 AMG
363hp/376lb-ft @ 4000rpm
3,605lbs
9.93lbs/hp
Fastest stock time on dragtimes: 13.2s @ 107.3mph


E92 M3
414hp/296lb-ft tq
3,704lbs
8.9lbs/hp
Fastest stock time on dragtimes: 12.510s @ 114.8mph

PC Valkyrie

Looking at acceleration times from a standing start, where the M3 can have the advantage of launching the car at high rpm's, is not a best judge of what can happen when one starts racing from a roll.

Although I personally have no experience with regards to "racing" a E9X M3 from a roll or from a standing start, I suspect that the rolling race is the one situation where the C55 has a CHANCE of keeping up for a short distance (or possibly have a slight edge if the race is short enough, especially if the M3 driver is not in the optimal gear). Don't get me wrong, eventually, the E9X M3 will pull away easily without a doubt given the higher HP as the race goes on, but that initial start from a roll is where the C55 could possibly shine.

We all know the C55 gets killed by a properly driven and launched E9X M3 from a standing start (0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile, etc, etc). However, what happens when there is no launch at high rpm for the E9X M3?

Car and Driver is the only North America magazine which formally times rolling starts:

C55/E92 M3 with M-DCT

5-60mph: 4.9/4.8
30-50mph: 2.5/2.4
50-70mph: 3.2/3.2

The C55 can possibly keep up initially (likely because of that superior torque), although the M3 will almost certainly pull away as the race goes on. If the M3 driver is not in his optimal gear, it is possible for the C55 to pull ahead early on in a rolling race.

This is in keeping with what I have seen when tracking and powering out of corners when following E92 M3's (which is the closest thing to a "rolling race" I have ever experienced).

e1000

You guys crack me up. Lets say a 10th of a second is a car length, give or take. Even your numbers show that the M3 will pull a car by 60mph, will pull a car from 30-50mph. Honestly 30-50mph and 50-70mph is such a small range of speed for these cars, plus, there may be a shift in one of these mph ranges that the other car dosen't go through. Honestly guys, stock for stock it's not close, from a dig or from a roll. Yes you MIGHT be able to catch one off guard in the wrong gear, but that's not really a fair comparison now is it?

Quicktwinturbo

Proper driven M3 runs even or very close (DCT) with C63s.. (stock V stock)

C55 can't hang with C63 (stock V stock)....


Case closed.

RLx02

Stock for stock yes. But I'm almost a full 100 pounds lighter than an m3 and have about 80 or more ft/pounds of torque than an m3. Most e92 m3's are making 330-340hp and ~250ft/pounds of torque at the wheel stock.

so 337/345 at the wheels with 3600 pounds vs 340/250 with 3700 pounds?

I'm pretty sure a well modded C32 or a ecu/header C55 could keep up, if not beat a m3 on a roll. I never said smoke or easily walk one, but beat it.