I get to beat up on Mustangs 
Is a Sprintbooster worth it?
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PLAID
Newzchspy,
I'm not disputing Dingles figures (beyond adding the additional tenth of a second to his figures that the signal actually travels based on the SB), because regardless if they are 100% right or wrong they currently prove my point of what I was saying from the start. That regardless of how small, that when all other factors are held constant, that having an SB will improve throttle response by some degree.
Now the topic of "is it worth the money" is a completely separate issue that the individual has to make for themselves. If I didn't have "any" mods and was looking for one that would improve my HP/TQ then I would be looking for a tune vs. a SB.
But if you already have a tune, and want a mod that can improve your throttle response then SB is a way of getting that done. And that by their own graph, it can provide an increase to your throttle input by .1sec.
That's all I have been saying since the first post. I stated up front that I was not doing a comparsion between a tune and SB. I have strictly been stating that a SB does provide a tangible benefit (regardless of how small) beyond the preceived benefit that everyone loves and talks about on these threads. Now how all of that has turned into this crazy series of back and forth over something that I have never implied is beyond me.
I'm not disputing Dingles figures (beyond adding the additional tenth of a second to his figures that the signal actually travels based on the SB), because regardless if they are 100% right or wrong they currently prove my point of what I was saying from the start. That regardless of how small, that when all other factors are held constant, that having an SB will improve throttle response by some degree.
Now the topic of "is it worth the money" is a completely separate issue that the individual has to make for themselves. If I didn't have "any" mods and was looking for one that would improve my HP/TQ then I would be looking for a tune vs. a SB.
But if you already have a tune, and want a mod that can improve your throttle response then SB is a way of getting that done. And that by their own graph, it can provide an increase to your throttle input by .1sec.
That's all I have been saying since the first post. I stated up front that I was not doing a comparsion between a tune and SB. I have strictly been stating that a SB does provide a tangible benefit (regardless of how small) beyond the preceived benefit that everyone loves and talks about on these threads. Now how all of that has turned into this crazy series of back and forth over something that I have never implied is beyond me.
Carry on...............
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 983
Likes: 2
From: USA
Marsaydees
Point not well taken.
There is Zero (Repeat: ZERO) effect on velocity during a launch with or without a SB. Even if God increased the force of static friction 10 fold for this stupid experiment (to negate traction variables), the SB car still would have ZERO advantage.
There is no point in arguing this with somebody that does not understand Bernoulli's principle involving venturi effect, Newton's laws for the subject of rotational inertia and torque, and the laws of circuits.
Simply put: over a delta t of about 11.5 MILLIseconds, it does not matter if one car has a 50% increase in throttle plate positioning over another car. The science is there and obvious. This guy's ability to comprehend science, unfortunately, is not.
There is Zero (Repeat: ZERO) effect on velocity during a launch with or without a SB. Even if God increased the force of static friction 10 fold for this stupid experiment (to negate traction variables), the SB car still would have ZERO advantage.
There is no point in arguing this with somebody that does not understand Bernoulli's principle involving venturi effect, Newton's laws for the subject of rotational inertia and torque, and the laws of circuits.
Simply put: over a delta t of about 11.5 MILLIseconds, it does not matter if one car has a 50% increase in throttle plate positioning over another car. The science is there and obvious. This guy's ability to comprehend science, unfortunately, is not.
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 170
Likes: 18
From: IL
2021 AMG CLA 45 (Sold 14 CLA 45 AMG, 05 C55 AMG)
Reading through this gave me a good laugh. Seriously people, trying to justify the cost of a SB by claiming some kind of performance gain however small is just insane. Maybe I can add to this, maybe not but here goes.
Does the SB allow a faster throttle response when compared to stock? Yes
Does it make the car faster? No
Why? well think of it this way. Running a 1/4 mile at the drag strip. Both cars stock and SB car (all other things being equal) will run the exact same time (ET).
The ONLY difference being that the SB car may have a very small improvement in reaction time. Being 0.010 faster on the gas does not necessarily mean the car will move off the line 0.010s faster. There is a lot more involved between the gas pedal and the rear tires.
So what we have here is a device that may cause the car to noticeably feel more "lively" but not really any faster. The best I can sum it up is that its not a performance enhancement more of a cosmetic improvement. At the end of the day each to their own, if some one wants to spend the money that's up to them its a choice not a requirement.
John
Does the SB allow a faster throttle response when compared to stock? Yes
Does it make the car faster? No
Why? well think of it this way. Running a 1/4 mile at the drag strip. Both cars stock and SB car (all other things being equal) will run the exact same time (ET).
The ONLY difference being that the SB car may have a very small improvement in reaction time. Being 0.010 faster on the gas does not necessarily mean the car will move off the line 0.010s faster. There is a lot more involved between the gas pedal and the rear tires.
So what we have here is a device that may cause the car to noticeably feel more "lively" but not really any faster. The best I can sum it up is that its not a performance enhancement more of a cosmetic improvement. At the end of the day each to their own, if some one wants to spend the money that's up to them its a choice not a requirement.
John
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,073
Likes: 27
From: North NJ
2002 C32 AMG, 2013 GLK 350/4, 2015 E63S AMG Wagon
Reading through this gave me a good laugh. Seriously people, trying to justify the cost of a SB by claiming some kind of performance gain however small is just insane. Maybe I can add to this, maybe not but here goes.
Does the SB allow a faster throttle response when compared to stock? Yes
Does it make the car faster? No
Why? well think of it this way. Running a 1/4 mile at the drag strip. Both cars stock and SB car (all other things being equal) will run the exact same time (ET).
The ONLY difference being that the SB car may have a very small improvement in reaction time. Being 0.010 faster on the gas does not necessarily mean the car will move off the line 0.010s faster. There is a lot more involved between the gas pedal and the rear tires.
So what we have here is a device that may cause the car to noticeably feel more "lively" but not really any faster. The best I can sum it up is that its not a performance enhancement more of a cosmetic improvement. At the end of the day each to their own, if some one wants to spend the money that's up to them its a choice not a requirement.
John
Does the SB allow a faster throttle response when compared to stock? Yes
Does it make the car faster? No
Why? well think of it this way. Running a 1/4 mile at the drag strip. Both cars stock and SB car (all other things being equal) will run the exact same time (ET).
The ONLY difference being that the SB car may have a very small improvement in reaction time. Being 0.010 faster on the gas does not necessarily mean the car will move off the line 0.010s faster. There is a lot more involved between the gas pedal and the rear tires.
So what we have here is a device that may cause the car to noticeably feel more "lively" but not really any faster. The best I can sum it up is that its not a performance enhancement more of a cosmetic improvement. At the end of the day each to their own, if some one wants to spend the money that's up to them its a choice not a requirement.
John
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 170
Likes: 18
From: IL
2021 AMG CLA 45 (Sold 14 CLA 45 AMG, 05 C55 AMG)
At the track, before the tree turns green, I'm already on the gas keeping the car at anywhere from 1500 - 2000 RPM. So, the pedal travel time in real racing conditions is even less than BHeart thinks. Negates any advantage since my throttle position is already exactly where I want it to be. On the street, SB just makes it more convinient to drive like a mad man. BTW, I do have the first generaton SB.
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Joined: Mar 2008
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PLAID
Also at the track both drivers anticipate the light so in reality the SB would not help here. If you have a driver in a stock car cut a perfect light then the SB car can only match him not beat him. So no advantage in having a SB. As I said its a cosmetic mod and I'm not knocking anyone who pays the money for one just as long as they are not claiming it makes their car faster
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
From: Ontario, Canada
2002 C32 AMG
I have a eurocharged remap. One of the things it does is increase the throttle response like the sprint booster does. For anyone who doesn't understand, this mod changes your driving style, that's it. Think about it this way. It's like changing your steering wheel to a smaller one allowing you to use less effort to turn the wheels a greater distance. It makes it more "sensitive" but less "accurate". It's the same thing with the sprint booster. I'm still comtemplating whether or not I like the increased throttle response from the remap. It's great for driving on the streets, as it does tend to make you drive more agressive. However, it's a little too finger tippy IMO for a proper track/lapping day. I'm talking about circut racing, not drag racing.
IMO, for the price, save up and get a eurocharged tune. The only disadvantage is that you can't switch back and fourth between the settings so easily as the sprint booster.
Bry
IMO, for the price, save up and get a eurocharged tune. The only disadvantage is that you can't switch back and fourth between the settings so easily as the sprint booster.
Bry
Last edited by Autotechnica; May 5, 2011 at 01:34 PM.
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Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
From: Little silver, nj
CL65 AMG, RS6
I disagree, I have used Jerry on my heavily modified RS6(luv his tune) and just had Jerry flash my CL65, i really didnt notice an increase in throttle response, faster car yes....i added SB last night, thread in CL65 section and I know it DOES NOT increase power, but I luv the rapid response of my throttle now, instant....just my .02
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
From: Ontario, Canada
2002 C32 AMG
I disagree, I have used Jerry on my heavily modified RS6(luv his tune) and just had Jerry flash my CL65, i really didnt notice an increase in throttle response, faster car yes....i added SB last night, thread in CL65 section and I know it DOES NOT increase power, but I luv the rapid response of my throttle now, instant....just my .02
If both of your cars have drive-by wire (probably do), you should have talked to Jerry about having the throttle response changed. If it is possible, I'm sure he would have done it.
Last edited by Autotechnica; May 5, 2011 at 04:00 PM.
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 116
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From: Little silver, nj
CL65 AMG, RS6
I am not arguing, the diff of maps, and btw I am huge supporter of Eurocharged, and a good customer. I did not notice the diff in throttle response on my cl65 after my EC flash...and yes it is a diff car then yours. My stage 1 tune from jerry @ Eurocharged for my MB has made a big diff in mid/upper power, from my understanding AMG pedals lagg quite a bit and I will admit, I am newer to MB, not to modding, yes I have an RS6 heavily modded, and apples to oranges, its diff, matter fact very little throttle lag, small snails stock spool quick. Opions are like @ssh*les, everyone has one, as do I...SB made my Eurocharged CL65 AMG more throttle responsive..it is what it is
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,165
Likes: 4
PLAID
I am not arguing, the diff of maps, and btw I am huge supporter of Eurocharged, and a good customer. I did not notice the diff in throttle response on my cl65 after my EC flash...and yes it is a diff car then yours. My stage 1 tune from jerry @ Eurocharged for my MB has made a big diff in mid/upper power, from my understanding AMG pedals lagg quite a bit and I will admit, I am newer to MB, not to modding, yes I have an RS6 heavily modded, and apples to oranges, its diff, matter fact very little throttle lag, small snails stock spool quick. Opions are like @ssh*les, everyone has one, as do I...SB made my Eurocharged CL65 AMG more throttle responsive..it is what it is
More responsive yes!!, BUT not any quicker or faster!!
Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 133
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C55 AMG
Point not well taken.
There is Zero (Repeat: ZERO) effect on velocity during a launch with or without a SB. Even if God increased the force of static friction 10 fold for this stupid experiment (to negate traction variables), the SB car still would have ZERO advantage.
There is no point in arguing this with somebody that does not understand Bernoulli's principle involving venturi effect, Newton's laws for the subject of rotational inertia and torque, and the laws of circuits.
Simply put: over a delta t of about 11.5 MILLIseconds, it does not matter if one car has a 50% increase in throttle plate positioning over another car. The science is there and obvious. This guy's ability to comprehend science, unfortunately, is not.
There is Zero (Repeat: ZERO) effect on velocity during a launch with or without a SB. Even if God increased the force of static friction 10 fold for this stupid experiment (to negate traction variables), the SB car still would have ZERO advantage.
There is no point in arguing this with somebody that does not understand Bernoulli's principle involving venturi effect, Newton's laws for the subject of rotational inertia and torque, and the laws of circuits.
Simply put: over a delta t of about 11.5 MILLIseconds, it does not matter if one car has a 50% increase in throttle plate positioning over another car. The science is there and obvious. This guy's ability to comprehend science, unfortunately, is not.
I never once stated that having a SB would make the difference between winning or losing (which with all of the science, physics, etc you have been working to prove). I merely and only stated that numerically (which you have taken the time to calculate) that the numbers show a difference....that's all I was ever stating...nothing more. I never said the difference would result in increase performance by any means, only increased throttle response.
That's where this whole conversation has taken a strong detour, you have been trying to prove a point that I never argued (performance), and then tried to ignore the one point that I was making (throttle response).
As for my comprehension of science, that was never in question. But your ability to address the topic "as state" is another story all together.
Have a great night.
Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
C55 AMG
Reading through this gave me a good laugh. Seriously people, trying to justify the cost of a SB by claiming some kind of performance gain however small is just insane. Maybe I can add to this, maybe not but here goes.
Does the SB allow a faster throttle response when compared to stock? Yes
Does it make the car faster? No
Why? well think of it this way. Running a 1/4 mile at the drag strip. Both cars stock and SB car (all other things being equal) will run the exact same time (ET).
The ONLY difference being that the SB car may have a very small improvement in reaction time. Being 0.010 faster on the gas does not necessarily mean the car will move off the line 0.010s faster. There is a lot more involved between the gas pedal and the rear tires.
So what we have here is a device that may cause the car to noticeably feel more "lively" but not really any faster. The best I can sum it up is that its not a performance enhancement more of a cosmetic improvement. At the end of the day each to their own, if some one wants to spend the money that's up to them its a choice not a requirement.
John
Does the SB allow a faster throttle response when compared to stock? Yes
Does it make the car faster? No
Why? well think of it this way. Running a 1/4 mile at the drag strip. Both cars stock and SB car (all other things being equal) will run the exact same time (ET).
The ONLY difference being that the SB car may have a very small improvement in reaction time. Being 0.010 faster on the gas does not necessarily mean the car will move off the line 0.010s faster. There is a lot more involved between the gas pedal and the rear tires.
So what we have here is a device that may cause the car to noticeably feel more "lively" but not really any faster. The best I can sum it up is that its not a performance enhancement more of a cosmetic improvement. At the end of the day each to their own, if some one wants to spend the money that's up to them its a choice not a requirement.
John
The bold highlight is the only point I have been stating this whole time. The claims of "performance mods" have been the "noise" of other to cloud my one and only point in this topic.
Like I've said before, if I was looking for faster/performance, I would look for HP/TQ improvement (neither of which will come from a SB). But if I want a more responsive throttle an SB can help in that area. That's all I'm saying.
And for the record, the 11.5 milliseconds that Dingle is speaking to only reflects the difference in the foot's flexion, it does not take into account the amplifying of the actual throttle signal created by the SB versus stock. Now at the of the day does that win you a race...NO, but does is show a difference that can't be mimicked by simply flooring the accelarator faster...YES.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
From: Ontario, Canada
2002 C32 AMG
I am not arguing, the diff of maps, and btw I am huge supporter of Eurocharged, and a good customer. I did not notice the diff in throttle response on my cl65 after my EC flash...and yes it is a diff car then yours. My stage 1 tune from jerry @ Eurocharged for my MB has made a big diff in mid/upper power, from my understanding AMG pedals lagg quite a bit and I will admit, I am newer to MB, not to modding, yes I have an RS6 heavily modded, and apples to oranges, its diff, matter fact very little throttle lag, small snails stock spool quick. Opions are like @ssh*les, everyone has one, as do I...SB made my Eurocharged CL65 AMG more throttle responsive..it is what it is
I think your post was the longest sentance I've ever read in my life.
peace..
Bry
Last edited by Autotechnica; May 5, 2011 at 11:12 PM.
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
From: Little silver, nj
CL65 AMG, RS6
Damn now you are correcting my sentence structure...I was responding to the original title of the thread, merits or not with sprint booster, genius when u think it cost $15 bucks to make, maybe 5 more...at least many a member on audizine have figured. $300. I paid, and not to be a d!ck but not a lot of $ for quicker reaction times. I have not discussed throttle response with Jerry( I normally talk with Jerry, not mike.) actually we are working on a custom tune for my RS6 set up. I wanted to drive jerry's tune for a month or so, I am very use to extremely quick power in my RS6, so for me being impatient I bought the SB, couldn't ne happier.
War,
Kiddin
Stephen
War,
Kiddin
Stephen
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 983
Likes: 2
From: USA
Marsaydees
Newbie
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
SLR
As does your arrogance it appears.
The SB does more than just advance the accelerator position, it sends a position change signal faster that stock (reduced ramping time). Hence increased throttle response. Which can definately improve lap times. Which would be a valid use of the word 'faster'.
Every owner understands the difference it makes whether they can explain it or not (same goes for some dealers) and they are correct in saying that you cannot replicate the SB response with any amount of foot stomping. Even if the cars learning algorithms can adapt throttle response you would need to keep up the throttle mashing and the gain would always be less anyway.
You can puff yourself up with fancy physics if you feel the need, you just happen to be wrong about the difference a SB will make.
The SB does more than just advance the accelerator position, it sends a position change signal faster that stock (reduced ramping time). Hence increased throttle response. Which can definately improve lap times. Which would be a valid use of the word 'faster'.
Every owner understands the difference it makes whether they can explain it or not (same goes for some dealers) and they are correct in saying that you cannot replicate the SB response with any amount of foot stomping. Even if the cars learning algorithms can adapt throttle response you would need to keep up the throttle mashing and the gain would always be less anyway.
You can puff yourself up with fancy physics if you feel the need, you just happen to be wrong about the difference a SB will make.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 754
Likes: 10
From: Houston, TX
a car.
As does your arrogance it appears.
The SB does more than just advance the accelerator position, it sends a position change signal faster that stock (reduced ramping time). Hence increased throttle response. Which can definately improve lap times. Which would be a valid use of the word 'faster'.
Every owner understands the difference it makes whether they can explain it or not (same goes for some dealers) and they are correct in saying that you cannot replicate the SB response with any amount of foot stomping. Even if the cars learning algorithms can adapt throttle response you would need to keep up the throttle mashing and the gain would always be less anyway.
You can puff yourself up with fancy physics if you feel the need, you just happen to be wrong about the difference a SB will make.
The SB does more than just advance the accelerator position, it sends a position change signal faster that stock (reduced ramping time). Hence increased throttle response. Which can definately improve lap times. Which would be a valid use of the word 'faster'.
Every owner understands the difference it makes whether they can explain it or not (same goes for some dealers) and they are correct in saying that you cannot replicate the SB response with any amount of foot stomping. Even if the cars learning algorithms can adapt throttle response you would need to keep up the throttle mashing and the gain would always be less anyway.
You can puff yourself up with fancy physics if you feel the need, you just happen to be wrong about the difference a SB will make.
GTFO.
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 983
Likes: 2
From: USA
Marsaydees
As does your arrogance it appears.
The SB does more than just advance the accelerator position, it sends a position change signal faster that stock (reduced ramping time). Hence increased throttle response. Which can definately improve lap times. Which would be a valid use of the word 'faster'.
Every owner understands the difference it makes whether they can explain it or not (same goes for some dealers) and they are correct in saying that you cannot replicate the SB response with any amount of foot stomping. Even if the cars learning algorithms can adapt throttle response you would need to keep up the throttle mashing and the gain would always be less anyway.
You can puff yourself up with fancy physics if you feel the need, you just happen to be wrong about the difference a SB will make.
The SB does more than just advance the accelerator position, it sends a position change signal faster that stock (reduced ramping time). Hence increased throttle response. Which can definately improve lap times. Which would be a valid use of the word 'faster'.
Every owner understands the difference it makes whether they can explain it or not (same goes for some dealers) and they are correct in saying that you cannot replicate the SB response with any amount of foot stomping. Even if the cars learning algorithms can adapt throttle response you would need to keep up the throttle mashing and the gain would always be less anyway.
You can puff yourself up with fancy physics if you feel the need, you just happen to be wrong about the difference a SB will make.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,856
Likes: 4
02 C32 AMG
As does your arrogance it appears.
The SB does more than just advance the accelerator position, it sends a position change signal faster that stock (reduced ramping time). Hence increased throttle response. Which can definately improve lap times. Which would be a valid use of the word 'faster'.
Every owner understands the difference it makes whether they can explain it or not (same goes for some dealers) and they are correct in saying that you cannot replicate the SB response with any amount of foot stomping. Even if the cars learning algorithms can adapt throttle response you would need to keep up the throttle mashing and the gain would always be less anyway.
You can puff yourself up with fancy physics if you feel the need, you just happen to be wrong about the difference a SB will make.
The SB does more than just advance the accelerator position, it sends a position change signal faster that stock (reduced ramping time). Hence increased throttle response. Which can definately improve lap times. Which would be a valid use of the word 'faster'.
Every owner understands the difference it makes whether they can explain it or not (same goes for some dealers) and they are correct in saying that you cannot replicate the SB response with any amount of foot stomping. Even if the cars learning algorithms can adapt throttle response you would need to keep up the throttle mashing and the gain would always be less anyway.
You can puff yourself up with fancy physics if you feel the need, you just happen to be wrong about the difference a SB will make.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
Likes: 1
I'm embarrassed to get into this discussion, but the fact is that 98% of SB owners are happy with their purchase. In fact, most feel it's the best upgrade they made to their vehicle. It absolutely changes the way the car feels.
The thing that's very important to remember is that the majority of people purchased their SB's when ECU tunes were either unavailable for their cars, or priced incredibly high.
It's incredibly funny to me when people that argue that it's a gimmick, and doesn't do anything that you couldn't accomplish by pressing the accelerator further, have never owned one!
The thing that's very important to remember is that the majority of people purchased their SB's when ECU tunes were either unavailable for their cars, or priced incredibly high.
It's incredibly funny to me when people that argue that it's a gimmick, and doesn't do anything that you couldn't accomplish by pressing the accelerator further, have never owned one!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,856
Likes: 4
02 C32 AMG
I'm embarrassed to get into this discussion, but the fact is that 98% of SB owners are happy with their purchase. In fact, most feel it's the best upgrade they made to their vehicle. It absolutely changes the way the car feels.
The thing that's very important to remember is that the majority of people purchased their SB's when ECU tunes were either unavailable for their cars, or priced incredibly high.
It's incredibly funny to me when people that argue that it's a gimmick, and doesn't do anything that you couldn't accomplish by pressing the accelerator further, have never owned one!
The thing that's very important to remember is that the majority of people purchased their SB's when ECU tunes were either unavailable for their cars, or priced incredibly high.
It's incredibly funny to me when people that argue that it's a gimmick, and doesn't do anything that you couldn't accomplish by pressing the accelerator further, have never owned one!
