Headers....bad idea?
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From: Northern Suburb of Indianapolis
CLS55
Headers....bad idea?
All, I'm on the fence about getting shorties on my C32 at some point in the future. I have the 185mm pulley, NW pulley saver kit, E55 intake system with K&Ns, CM30 pump, EC H/E, and an EC tune.
The thing I'm wondering about is that both times my car was tuned it was getting lean up top. So I wonder if adding more air flow with headers is even a good idea.
I've also noticed that every blown engine I've seen on these cars, all seemed to have headers...not that its the headers causing it, but that the combination of mods are such that the fuel system can't keep up or there is a limit in our ability to tune these cars (somewhere I was given the impression that there was issues with getting these cars to lower a/fs).
thoughts?
The thing I'm wondering about is that both times my car was tuned it was getting lean up top. So I wonder if adding more air flow with headers is even a good idea.
I've also noticed that every blown engine I've seen on these cars, all seemed to have headers...not that its the headers causing it, but that the combination of mods are such that the fuel system can't keep up or there is a limit in our ability to tune these cars (somewhere I was given the impression that there was issues with getting these cars to lower a/fs).
thoughts?
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: North NJ
2002 C32 AMG, 2013 GLK 350/4, 2015 E63S AMG Wagon
A few thoughts.
1. What are your current AFRs? Do you monitor anything on your car?
2. "every blown engine I've seen on these cars, all seemed to have headers" may just be a coincident. People that mod our cars to the extreme level will usually have headers. I also don't know how true this is. How many blown C32 owners do you know? Was it a bad tune? Timing issues? Injector issues?
I killed my cyl#6 before I installed my EC headers. Still don't know if it was a bad cam design for 2002 or what. I now have the same setup as you plus EC shorty headers and have been fine for a year. Ran 12.52 1/4 mile last November at Atco. My AFRs are at 11.7 or so under load.
1. What are your current AFRs? Do you monitor anything on your car?
2. "every blown engine I've seen on these cars, all seemed to have headers" may just be a coincident. People that mod our cars to the extreme level will usually have headers. I also don't know how true this is. How many blown C32 owners do you know? Was it a bad tune? Timing issues? Injector issues?
I killed my cyl#6 before I installed my EC headers. Still don't know if it was a bad cam design for 2002 or what. I now have the same setup as you plus EC shorty headers and have been fine for a year. Ran 12.52 1/4 mile last November at Atco. My AFRs are at 11.7 or so under load.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Houston, TX
C32/C55 AMG
A few thoughts.
1. What are your current AFRs? Do you monitor anything on your car?
2. "every blown engine I've seen on these cars, all seemed to have headers" may just be a coincident. People that mod our cars to the extreme level will usually have headers. I also don't know how true this is. How many blown C32 owners do you know? Was it a bad tune? Timing issues? Injector issues?
I killed my cyl#6 before I installed my EC headers. Still don't know if it was a bad cam design for 2002 or what. I now have the same setup as you plus EC shorty headers and have been fine for a year. Ran 12.52 1/4 mile last November at Atco. My AFRs are at 11.7 or so under load.
1. What are your current AFRs? Do you monitor anything on your car?
2. "every blown engine I've seen on these cars, all seemed to have headers" may just be a coincident. People that mod our cars to the extreme level will usually have headers. I also don't know how true this is. How many blown C32 owners do you know? Was it a bad tune? Timing issues? Injector issues?
I killed my cyl#6 before I installed my EC headers. Still don't know if it was a bad cam design for 2002 or what. I now have the same setup as you plus EC shorty headers and have been fine for a year. Ran 12.52 1/4 mile last November at Atco. My AFRs are at 11.7 or so under load.
As for the OP, just get a retune when you get headers, problem solved. If you feel you will not be able to run enough fuel, get a smaller pulley.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: North NJ
2002 C32 AMG, 2013 GLK 350/4, 2015 E63S AMG Wagon
Could you elaborate a bit more on the cam issue. I have a 2002 as well and I'm wondering if I could have a potential problem as well.
As for the OP, just get a retune when you get headers, problem solved. If you feel you will not be able to run enough fuel, get a smaller pulley.
As for the OP, just get a retune when you get headers, problem solved. If you feel you will not be able to run enough fuel, get a smaller pulley.
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From: Houston, TX
C32/C55 AMG
In the 2002 C32 the cams where a multi-part pressed design. When you look up part numbers in EPC sometimes it would says that the part has been replaced with a newer part number. In the case of the 2002 cams the EPC says not to install the old part number any more and only use the new part number. In my case the lobe has shifted and caused a misfire. I don't know if the exhaust valve caused it or the cam shifted and damaged the exhaust valve but that's what happened. I believe I was in 4th gear at the time.
Maybe this will be the excuse for buying new cams, but I'm still worried about what can go wrong.
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
i blew my engine when i didnt have headers and it was because of a bad tune. I have headers now and a good tune, and i still have two bad injectors but i'm still getting afrs at 12-12.5.
If you have a good tune, it should be ok. I would recommend a dyno tune though.
If you have a good tune, it should be ok. I would recommend a dyno tune though.
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From: North NJ
2002 C32 AMG, 2013 GLK 350/4, 2015 E63S AMG Wagon
As far as the Schrick/Kleemann cams, I heard from multiple reliable sources that they are no longer available.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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2002 C32 AMG, 2013 GLK 350/4, 2015 E63S AMG Wagon
Are you happy with 12-12.5 AFRs? What gear/RPM range is that for?
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From: Houston, TX
C32/C55 AMG
MB EPC lists the original cam part # as A1120505391 and A1120504201. There is also a note next to both part numbers "Replaced by: A1120505301 and A1120505301. OLD PART MUST NO LONGER BE INSTALLED.
As far as the Schrick/Kleemann cams, I heard from multiple reliable sources that they are no longer available.
As far as the Schrick/Kleemann cams, I heard from multiple reliable sources that they are no longer available.
Is there a differnce for left and right cams, these are the part numbers you gave me for the cams A1120505301 and A1120505301, and it comes up as 600 for the left, but does not mention right.
If I was going to spend $1200 for cams, couldn't I get some thing more agressive and does any one beside schrick produce them?
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: North NJ
2002 C32 AMG, 2013 GLK 350/4, 2015 E63S AMG Wagon
I heard that they need to be special order from Schrick, but I thought that you could still get them. I know that they are no longer manufactured as in stock part, but you should be able to still get them.
Is there a differnce for left and right cams, these are the part numbers you gave me for the cams A1120505301 and A1120505301, and it comes up as 600 for the left, but does not mention right.
If I was going to spend $1200 for cams, couldn't I get some thing more agressive and does any one beside schrick produce them?
Is there a differnce for left and right cams, these are the part numbers you gave me for the cams A1120505301 and A1120505301, and it comes up as 600 for the left, but does not mention right.
If I was going to spend $1200 for cams, couldn't I get some thing more agressive and does any one beside schrick produce them?
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
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2018 E63S AMG, 2003 SLK 230 Sport, 2004 SL 600, 2006 SLK 55 AMG, 1998 E320 Wagon
I'm running headers with a Powerchip tune, and they've been fine so far. Not throwing any codes or anything. But I have an '03, so chances are my cams are probably fixed compared to the '02.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
Besides (185/75) x (6k) = 15k vs (185/70) x (6k) = 15.85k
so the difference is only 850 rpm at 6000 revs.
Pshek has my 70mm sc pullley with the let 185ec and it didnt add hp...all it did was add more tq in the low and mid rpm, it didnt add hp. I really doubt it would be enough to blow a motor.
Since there srt6 guys running 178/65 x 6k = 16.43k without blowing a motor.
I ran my car with the same mods with the powerchip tune going up wards of 135mph without any problems for 6months. I blow my motor after 2wks of having the ec tune with the same mods going less then 60mph.
The fuel pump could've been the culprit or not. My new motor had bad injectors, the majority of the leaness was fixed when i swapped my old injectors into the new motor rather then the fuel pump.
There isn't enough direct evidence to conclude it was the ec tune but there is enough to infer it.
Even with this, I never say not to get a ec tune to other members. I merely tell them to get a dyno tune because of this experience. I personally believe mail in tunes are junk.
EC makes great hardware products, but I cannot recommend them for tunes.
Gintani and OEtuning finally got my car running how it should be and I am happy with there level of service.
If anyone asks me personally which tune they should go with, I will say OEtuning over EC.
But i try not to be the fanboy type, I rather just present the evidence and let people decide for themselves.
