Galodourado

Hi all,

bad news here.

Yesterday when cruising around 70mph in highway for about 200miles, I lost alternator and steering; inmediatly stopped and realize that belt was out.

Got car to MB service in a platform to do inspection/job and... iddler pulley + water pump were broken. Around U$1.100,oo for parts and labor + several days without car for parts not being MB

This happened with less than 3.000miles after installing EC 181 pulley + tune with new iddler. Iddler bearing is completly "non-spinning" and with signs of having got too hot due to colour it got.

Is this normal with a less than 3.000miles iddler? It makes me think about going back to stock again, but I'm not sure if ECU can be restored to 100% stock after being tuned... possible?

I'll post photos later.

TemjinX2

it shouldn't go after 3k, I would invest in the pulley saver kit. it replaces that really small idler pulley with a larger slower spinning pulley. I would PM Eurocharged for your Idler pulley issue.

Galodourado

I'll pm EC for sure.

Photos to ilustrate:

Lenin

Who did the install?

Galodourado

Independant office who usually takes care of my cars. I'm very confident on his job as all he did worked as it should until now

Biscuit

I had this happen on my car before I did any modifications to it. I was lucky enough to be sitting in a parking lot on a conference call when I started hearing my belt squeak. Had it flat-bedded over to my local repair shop and they took care of it. Since the water pump had to be replaced it seems like it ran me about $750 (US Dollars) to get fixed? Been quite a while ago, I can't remember.

Best of luck though I know it sucks.

Galodourado

Tks!

...and it suks even more because I've replaced all pulleys+tensioner+belt when I installed this mods to give me peace of mind.
I thought this way I will be fine to drive a lot of kilometers without being worried!

c32AMG-DTM

Back in the day, my idler went after about 8,000 miles. Your photos look very similar to my old ones. My repair was closer to $2k, but because I had the misfortune of the idler pulley cracking into the AMG-specific oil cooler (part of the oil-filter housing) once it came free, which added several hundred bucks to the bill.

If you google search "LET pulley failure" you can read several stories. (LET became what is now Eurocharged).

Good luck with your repairs.

loungn14

Its a new pulley kit so it would have had the new bearing, most likely it was a overtighting of the bolt.

We see it quite often, the proper procedure is to tighten this bolt to a maximum of 15 ft.lb (180 in.lb). Thats actually not that much, and easy to exceed.

Lenin

That's what I was thinking. These are mechanical parts and anything can happen during the manufacturing process as far as defects are concerned. I have been running my setup for close to 50K miles without any issues. I did however add the Needswings PSK about 15K miles ago (just to be on the safe side). Here is some old but still good info on this subject https://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c...ml#post3172011

TemjinX2

my let 185 small idler pulley started making noise after about 8k. You didn't hear the noise when the car was on but if you spun the pulley by itself it made noise, I replaced it with the pulley saver kit. Seems to be holding up well after 5k no noise.

Newzchspy

Here you go!!! To quote: " Torque value for tightening the idler pulley bolt: 14-15 ft.lb. I got this value straight from the techs at my MBZ dealership.
This torque value is extremely important because stress is placed on the bearing if you over torque this bolt. Increased stress ultimately means decreased life of the bearing. Since this torque value is relatively low, I used Locktite on the bolts for extra peace of mind."


and to quote another great forum member: "First class wite up my friend.

How much does ANYONE want to bet that NO one torque that bolt to only 15 ft/lbs?

c32AMG-DTM

I'd bet you're wrong.

Dunno about the OP's mechanic, but the factory specification for the idler pulley bolt torque is 20 Nm. Anyone with a shop manual (or online subscription service, or a casual search through car forums) would find this rather easily.

Since the aftermarket idlers don't require a different specification be used, one would expect a reputable mechanic to follow factory procedures for removal and replacement when alternative instructions are not present. If one didn't perform the install himself, he doesn't know what torque was applied, but the OP seems confident in his mechanic's prowess. He should certainly have a chat with his mechanic, though... to confirm one way or another.

Lenin

20 Nm is much less than 15 ft/lb. More than 3 times.

TemjinX2

you sure about that? the calculator i used saids 20 nm is 14.75 ft lbs

http://www.convertunits.com/from/new...to/foot+pounds

Lenin

You are right. I should't post this late at night.

Galodourado

That's correct.

20Nm is the torque my mechanic informed that was applied, so as I see things are not so easy as "put another one and your are set".

Has anyone tried (or know if it's possible) some of the following:
1. Has anyone identified another 6303 bearing capable of 20.000rpm ?
2. Is it possible to mount stock idler pulley with 181mm pulley?
2.1 Does if fit?
2.2 What other parts/pulleys will be affected doing this?
2.3 Can be found a belt for new size?

Otherwise, as found in links below, it's a sure "soon will happen again"

http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/304825-post16.html

http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p68...duct_info.html

c32AMG-DTM

Your questions are the right ones - but they've all been covered before. These idlers seem to be a crapshoot... many (most?) of them seem to run for tens of thousands of miles without issue. Some, even when installed correctly, have failed with fewer than 10,000 miles on them... causing $1-2k in necessary repairs. Jake (loungn14) of Eurocharged mentioned above that you already had the high-speed bearing in your kit.

To cut to the chase, many here (and at crossfireforum) feel that the Needswings Pulley Saver Kit (PSK) is the best solution available at present, to prevent overworked and overdriven idler pulleys from running amok and ruining your day. I am unaware of a single PSK kit that has had a pulley fail (although it may've happened, IDK). I don't run one myself, but plan to in the future if I keep the car long-term.

testknight

Mine did the same thing after only a few thousand miles. I was 50+ miles from anyone I knew and had to pay a tow to get it back home. I did the job myself, got the waterpump for about $200 (reman unit), $30 bucks in coolant and made a deal on the Needswings pulley save kit for about +/-$150 (don't remember now). SO about $350-$400

I did the water pump install myself, its really not too bad if you've done some work on cars before. I had never done that job and had it done in about 8 hours...it took longer becasue I am very careful to label each bolt, bolt hole and really spend time researching tourque specs every time. I also clean any mating surfaces well.

I did a write up on it:

https://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c...all-notes.html

SO far so good, have had about 5k miles on it since.

TemjinX2

Then new EC idler pulley is a 19000rpm bearing. The point is how long can it last at 19000rpm.

Honestly, your questions have been answered before. Its just easier to get the nsk pulley saver kit because all those issues were addressed with the kit. It comes with larger slower spinning pulleys and a larger belt.

THere's no real need to reinvent the wheel. The kit is relatively cheap and rob at needswings provides excellent customer service.

Here's my pulley saver kit review.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c...it-review.html

TemjinX2

all good, we've all had those moments...

Galodourado

I'm not so sure at that point.

SKF 6303ZZ bearing has a speed limit of 17.000rpm, so I don't see why EC would be different... Jerry itself told me to buy another 6303ZZ "any brand" when I informed him what happened

I agree that going NW route would be the most sense way to go, but I think this should be adviced/offered by EC to be a "yes-or-yes" option to install together with pulleys

TemjinX2

No clue, thats something only Eurocharged can answer.

Galodourado

I've been contacting some of my providers these last days trying to find a 6303 shielded bearing that can handle 19-20K rpm -even ceramic- and no sucess, so I've decided to go back to stock again even wasting more money than just installing NW kit.

I use this car as daily driver and usually do long trips with it, so I don't want to be worried anymore thinking that something will fault and that I will not have the spares at the dealer to replace inmediatly.

Can anyone know with confidence if I can reinstall stock pulleys back and drive the car with EC tune for some days until I can got online with EC to reinstall stock one? Is it safe to do this?

Tks!

c32AMG-DTM

It depends on the tune... you might be okay, you might not. The only thing to say unequivocally is that you'd be running a tune designed for a hardware configuration that you're no longer using.

As you mention, EC can most likely put you back to a stock tune. So can your dealership, though - I had that done once, and IIRC it cost me zero in parts and about 1 hr's worth of labor. Plus, that way, you know you have the latest programming/updates from MB/AMG.