Performance cats?
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01 CLK 430
no it has a small range. I forget the exact numbers. the name suggest exactly what it does, narrow band or wide band. wide band just has much wider limits to its O2 monitoring as its name suggests. I think narrow goes from like 13.7-14.7 and wide band can go from like 12-16 depending on cars and which kits you use. Either way wide band is NOT necessary for this, wideband is really only necessary if you are putting in an A/F gauge in the car and you want a real accurate measurement or you are running some sort of piggyback/standalone ECU.
I got the LC-1 because it can be wired up to mimic the factory narrowband signal. I just think that if you removed the primary cats with the LC-1 installed then it will not throw a CEL. When I get everything installed we will find out.
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sounds like airplane
the lc1 "mimics" the factory signal- what that means is that you can replace the factory sensor with it so that you can get a wideband signal AND a factory type signal. That doesn't mean it fakes it from nothing- it's still transmitting a narrow band signal from what it is reading... IF the reading with the factory sensor would throw a code it will still throw the same code.
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From: Rochester, MN
sounds like airplane
no it has a small range. I forget the exact numbers. the name suggest exactly what it does, narrow band or wide band. wide band just has much wider limits to its O2 monitoring as its name suggests. I think narrow goes from like 13.7-14.7 and wide band can go from like 12-16 depending on cars and which kits you use. Either way wide band is NOT necessary for this, wideband is really only necessary if you are putting in an A/F gauge in the car and you want a real accurate measurement or you are running some sort of piggyback/standalone ECU.
another one of those comments that makes me think twice about buying your products... why would a wideband sensor not measure below 12 afr? (i def. have my car tuned to run 11-11.8 at wot based on my ngk afx's measurements)
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From: KCMO, but Houston is my home.
01 CLK 430
the lc1 "mimics" the factory signal- what that means is that you can replace the factory sensor with it so that you can get a wideband signal AND a factory type signal. That doesn't mean it fakes it from nothing- it's still transmitting a narrow band signal from what it is reading... IF the reading with the factory sensor would throw a code it will still throw the same code.
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C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
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'98 C43 AMG. Obsidian Blk w/2 tone slvr/blk interior
ok so is it concluded to be better to have the lc1 o2 sensor replacement or better just to rearrange the pre-existing o2 sensors in the exhaust system? i dont know too much about how o2 sensors work, but wouldnt it be better to have an actual sensor there to deliver accurate realtime information pertinent to the environment in the exhaust as opposed to a "dummy" o2 sensor that keeps telling the ecu that everything is ok... and how would a simulated o2 sensor know if theres some kind of problem and throw a code if its not really a sensor at all....
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From: Rochester, MN
sounds like airplane
it is better to keep the factory sensor if it is functioning properly
the lc1 signal isn't from a dummy sensor (it's just that it turns the wideband info that it's reading into a signal useable for your ecu) it's from a real sensor that's giving it ostensibly the exact same readings that the stock sensor woudl send in the same location.
it is absolutely best to keep giving the ecu a "real" signal (from stock sensor or from lc1 or the many others that allow similar function) as it will retain the flexibility etc. that allows the car to perform and get somewhat decent gas mileage etc.- although since our cars only have stock narrow band i don't know just how much control the factory really gives the 02 sensor anyways. Regardless it's best to leave it alone.
I chose to isntall my wideband slightly more to the rear of the car and retain stock sensors in stock locations for now.
I'd love to hear more information about the relocation of the stock sensors as applicable with the headers which delete primaries- do you just move then furthr downstream?
the lc1 signal isn't from a dummy sensor (it's just that it turns the wideband info that it's reading into a signal useable for your ecu) it's from a real sensor that's giving it ostensibly the exact same readings that the stock sensor woudl send in the same location.
it is absolutely best to keep giving the ecu a "real" signal (from stock sensor or from lc1 or the many others that allow similar function) as it will retain the flexibility etc. that allows the car to perform and get somewhat decent gas mileage etc.- although since our cars only have stock narrow band i don't know just how much control the factory really gives the 02 sensor anyways. Regardless it's best to leave it alone.
I chose to isntall my wideband slightly more to the rear of the car and retain stock sensors in stock locations for now.
I'd love to hear more information about the relocation of the stock sensors as applicable with the headers which delete primaries- do you just move then furthr downstream?
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From: SCV SoCal
2002 CLK430
ok so is it concluded to be better to have the lc1 o2 sensor replacement or better just to rearrange the pre-existing o2 sensors in the exhaust system? i dont know too much about how o2 sensors work, but wouldnt it be better to have an actual sensor there to deliver accurate realtime information pertinent to the environment in the exhaust as opposed to a "dummy" o2 sensor that keeps telling the ecu that everything is ok... and how would a simulated o2 sensor know if theres some kind of problem and throw a code if its not really a sensor at all....
Hopefully this helps you understand what O2 sensors do, and what the ECU does with that reading.
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From: KCMO, but Houston is my home.
01 CLK 430
That's not a bad idea... Can someone post a picture of their stock C43 exhaust?
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
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C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Yes,As long as u have the primary O2's b4 the secondary cats and the secondary O2's just behind the secondary cat's u r good to go. The Kleemann headers actually come with bungs for placement of the primary O2's. You need to place bungs just behind the secondary cats for the placement of the secondary O2's.
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From: Portsmouth, NH
none
You should have O2's before and aft your primary cats in a stock configuration. He was referring to the configuration that he currently has which has deleted the primary cats and retained the secondaries. In which case you would cut and paste the O2 locations that read from the primary cats down to the secondaries once the primaries are removed.
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none
Not pointing any fingers here but isn't this kinda beating a dead horse? This stuff has been posted all over this site for several years......
OT.... silence I apologize for never getting back to you with the AMG ML55 cover part #. As I'm sure you can relate I'm very busy and don't always have time or the memory to dig this stuff up. Gonna go see the car this weekend and I'll make a point to grab it if you still need. IMO I would hold off on any 430 covers and look for the AMG cover as it holds true to the nature of the beast.
OT.... silence I apologize for never getting back to you with the AMG ML55 cover part #. As I'm sure you can relate I'm very busy and don't always have time or the memory to dig this stuff up. Gonna go see the car this weekend and I'll make a point to grab it if you still need. IMO I would hold off on any 430 covers and look for the AMG cover as it holds true to the nature of the beast.
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You should have O2's before and aft your primary cats in a stock configuration. He was referring to the configuration that he currently has which has deleted the primary cats and retained the secondaries. In which case you would cut and paste the O2 locations that read from the primary cats down to the secondaries once the primaries are removed.
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c43
I would NOT eliminate the primaries, Just weld in a set of 200 cell race cats for primaries. Whether you want to do secondaries is optional, they won't effect O2 sensors since they are after the O2s. Keep primaries but upgrade them to something better, you won't be disappointed. The power gains between 200 cell and straight pipes is almost nothing, but the gains over stock 400-600 cell can be drastic, theres no reason to eliminate cats all together
I think thats a good price but I think I will pass because I think the cats you suggest might just make the car to loud. The sound right now is so perfect. I am however going to convert the SINGLE exaust setup with a duel. They said they can do it but I will have to modify the rear to be able to fit a small muffler. It wont be "TRUE" duel exaust, it will split somewhere near the middle (should sound SWEAT). I like the way cars look with TWO chrome tips coming out the back. I know it will take some thinking in order to make this work but its really not that hard, I've done much harder stuff. Can't wait to do this before the summer ends.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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1999 C43 AMG
Dr. C36, I deleted the secondaries and left the primaries alone. The sound is fantastic! At first I gave the cars some gas and it sort of stalled on a certain spot. But a few blocks down the road it all went back to normal. I also had asked the guys that work on my cars how much they would charge to remove the primaries and add new ones. They looked at the front cats and gave me a price of $90.00 for the complete job. These guys are cheap but do real good work.
I think thats a good price but I think I will pass because I think the cats you suggest might just make the car to loud. The sound right now is so perfect. I am however going to convert the SINGLE exaust setup with a duel. They said they can do it but I will have to modify the rear to be able to fit a small muffler. It wont be "TRUE" duel exaust, it will split somewhere near the middle (should sound SWEAT). I like the way cars look with TWO chrome tips coming out the back. I know it will take some thinking in order to make this work but its really not that hard, I've done much harder stuff. Can't wait to do this before the summer ends.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I think thats a good price but I think I will pass because I think the cats you suggest might just make the car to loud. The sound right now is so perfect. I am however going to convert the SINGLE exaust setup with a duel. They said they can do it but I will have to modify the rear to be able to fit a small muffler. It wont be "TRUE" duel exaust, it will split somewhere near the middle (should sound SWEAT). I like the way cars look with TWO chrome tips coming out the back. I know it will take some thinking in order to make this work but its really not that hard, I've done much harder stuff. Can't wait to do this before the summer ends.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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e55
Dr. C36, I deleted the secondaries and left the primaries alone. The sound is fantastic! At first I gave the cars some gas and it sort of stalled on a certain spot. But a few blocks down the road it all went back to normal. I also had asked the guys that work on my cars how much they would charge to remove the primaries and add new ones. They looked at the front cats and gave me a price of $90.00 for the complete job. These guys are cheap but do real good work.
I think thats a good price but I think I will pass because I think the cats you suggest might just make the car to loud. The sound right now is so perfect. I am however going to convert the SINGLE exaust setup with a duel. They said they can do it but I will have to modify the rear to be able to fit a small muffler. It wont be "TRUE" duel exaust, it will split somewhere near the middle (should sound SWEAT). I like the way cars look with TWO chrome tips coming out the back. I know it will take some thinking in order to make this work but its really not that hard, I've done much harder stuff. Can't wait to do this before the summer ends.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I think thats a good price but I think I will pass because I think the cats you suggest might just make the car to loud. The sound right now is so perfect. I am however going to convert the SINGLE exaust setup with a duel. They said they can do it but I will have to modify the rear to be able to fit a small muffler. It wont be "TRUE" duel exaust, it will split somewhere near the middle (should sound SWEAT). I like the way cars look with TWO chrome tips coming out the back. I know it will take some thinking in order to make this work but its really not that hard, I've done much harder stuff. Can't wait to do this before the summer ends.
Thanks for the suggestions.
single pipe exhaust systems are lighter in weight, that is one big advantage and they also give great torque response b/c of the Y-pipe. All good ideas. Sounds like you are on the right track. I'd love to hear/see video as well.
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c43
I will make one as soon as I can start on this. The setup? I have everything stock except I removed that muffler looking thingy which silence the sounds. And I removed the rear cats and ran 2 straight pipes the same size as stock.
Runs and sounds like a different car.
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c43
Not surprisingly, it usually takes 3 days for ECU to fully adapt to new changes so thats why it stumbled at first. If you can do Primaires for $90 a pop DO IT. Get some high flow Vibrant, magnaflow, or Metal Cat 200 cell metallic core race cats and run those. If you want ECU to adapt faster you can do the ECU pedal reset trick and that usually speeds up the process.
. All good ideas. Sounds like you are on the right track. I'd love to hear/see video as well.
. All good ideas. Sounds like you are on the right track. I'd love to hear/see video as well.
Yes, the ecu was thrown off but back to normal. As far as the price, its $90.00 to remove BOTH cats AND replace with newer ones. I'm just not sure how the car will sound with better flowing cats. The better they flow I'm thinking the more noisier they are? If my front cats ever go bad I will than replace the cats and putt back the sound damper muffler thingy to keep the noise down some.
In regards to your comment "single pipe exhaust systems are lighter in weight, that is one big advantage and they also give great torque response b/c of the Y-pipe" do think splitting the exhaust to TWO pipes will cut down the power? I dont think it will since most NEWER amgs and other HP cars have the duel exhaust?
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1999 C43 AMG
are you talking about the resonator? its located almost underneath the front seats
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'98 C43 AMG. Obsidian Blk w/2 tone slvr/blk interior
is it bad to leave the resonator in? wont taking it out and putting metal cats all through the exhaust system going to make the exhaust drone at highway speeds?
