TVT_DESIGN

Nothing was directed at you. So I think you misread that.

As for purchasing the pulleys we order through LET for our customers. So yes we have sold several to M112 customers.

PJmak

oh now its "only" seconds?

when someone brought up the fact that c36 s less then a second slower, you guys were saying that one seocnd is allot of time in this case

silence

how about Omey sends me a free crank pulley for C43 and i install it with properly done dyno pulls directly before and after on DBPerformance's Dyno Dynamics unit?

I might even do before and after 1/4 mile runs- but he doesnt' exactly make claims there.

Heck- if i get the % gain he claims i'll even pay for the pulley.

Honestly though until some outside source actually tests it (all the more credible if it's someone who is skeptical) it's all a bunch of crap.

More importantly to me- whether the product is crap or not i'm tired of seeing it advertised in annoying, stupid, scheming manners such as this thread. I still don't believe for a second that some random person joined the forums, bought the pulley and spontaneously wrote the first post.


I don't know how far over 5k he will have to go to make a '96 C36 as fast as my car- but i know it's very unlikely to happen even with someone who can do all the work themselves and with used turbos. And as you said- even if he does he would have about a thousand miles before tranny failure (which btw- the "dr" has repeatedly touted as a "better" transmission in other posts on this forum).

silence

I don't think i understand what you're saying here? clarify?

ohlord

left out the 6.4 in the header of my message.If he takes a stock 6.4 second C36 and thinks he can throw in a 3500 buck turbo kit and drop it into the sub 5 second 0-60 zone he is smoking something shipped in from the hills of Jamaica
First, the head is not going to hold up to an extra 145h.p. without coming off and being worked on.Second, the transmission will need serious beefing up.Third, the driveshaft will need work.Fourth,Without major suspension mods he couldn't
get enough rubber into the stock wheel wells to hook it up and run sub 5's.
This guy thinks he can pick up an easy grand in a match race against a modded C43?Heck my lightly modified99 wagon out runs a stock C36
It's going to take him a whole lot more than 3.5 grand to shave off 1.5 seconds 0-60.Maybe $3500 plus lessons in engine building plus you spot him 15 car lengths and then he'll have a chance
I wonder what his other project is that he might attempt to spend 3500 bucks to win a grand?If the other deal does not work out.

PJmak

http://www.fantasycars.com/sedans/sedans.html

according to this site, c36 takes 5.9 seconds from 0 to 60

c43 takes 5.8

also according to this site, c43 is lighter and I heard that the v8 in the c43 is lighter then the straight 6 in the c36

if you wanna talk modded vs modded then get two hevilly moded cars and actually race them, how many of you guys have witnessed a c36 vs c43 race?

I bet it would be dead even

and with the engine that big ud think they would be able to get more then 300 hp, I mean its only got 20-30 more hp then a c36


no wonder the c43 was only a few grand more expensive

race this c36 below

http://www.silcom.com/~neilv/C36turbo/

against a moded c43, if you find one with over 400hp, the only mods ive seen in a c43 is a supercharger or a 5.5l swap, none of those give you more then 50hp so whats the point, obviously c36 is easier to mod


conclusion: your v8 is pretty much useless coz your c43 is not allot faster then a c36, so why get a car that costs more to maintain when you can get a c36 which is cheaper and easier to mod

PJmak

and what car is that for?

your wagon?

ohlord

not the Wagon,an E55 that has already ran in the mid tens in testing.

C43 is 100 lbs. lighter
engine is 100 lbs lighter
10% more torque at 1000 rpm less and flatter across the whole power band equals the C36 comes out on the short end of the stick,light weight pulley and all.

.8 liters is about 50 cubic inches so neither engine is a big engine.
One member is calling out another member with his modded C43 to prove that short of spending the same 5 grand for mods the C36 will get dogged.And it will.
If the guy knew how to install a $3500 turbo he would also know you just don't throw on a big power maker and not have to modify other parts of the car,in other words he bets with his mouth for his brains can't cash the check

I note the site fantasy cars,no one in real world testing of a bone stock c36 even when brand new in any testing ran a sub 6 second in an anemic m104 putting down under 280 h.p. at the flywheel.That's why the site is called fantasy

The wagon is quick,care to bet?
Yes, I have seen stock c36 go up against stock c43 the C43 walked him from line to line.
Last, have you ever seen 550 h.p. from a modded 4.3 with a supercharger,it is done all the time,so obviously you don't know jack about building Mercedes motors either. I think I just found another purchaser for a LW pulley

ohlord
If a guy can state that he gets a big improvement from a crank pulley and you believe it,and you then think that a supercharger is only worth 50h.p. on an m113 you are sadly mistaken and have never been to an MB track day and put your wallet at risk.

silence

it is only .7 litres larger- my 2.0 litre wrx that was totalled last winter would absolutely rape my C43 as it currently stands until the speeds got over 100 mph. what does engine size really have to do with it?

the reasons the C36 is a crappy platform have been stated- bad tranny (not 97s), little or no aftermarket (unless you count the pulley!), heavier (although just by a bit), and also it doesn't share parts with many other Mercedes' cars as the m113 does so finding stuff that isn't for it, but will work for it is much more challenging.

you say- let's find two heavily modded cars and race them... that was my challenge a little while ago. I really will drive somewhere and race someone if they can do it on a budget somewhat along my lines... If they win or are even close i will be impressed and it will be worth the $1,000 just to show the rest of you guys what it took in C36 mods to go that fast!

I don't know how much horsepower you think my car has and i'm not about to throw up a dyno chart at this point in this discussion. I do have modifications (included in my 4k) that are neither 'just a supercharger' or a '5.4' swap and certainly have gained more than 50 hp There are some things that work on any engine if you know how they work and how to install them.

RBYCC

Add to your list the fact that the C36 produces max torque at 4000 rpm versus the C43 at 3250 rpm.

Torque coming in at a lower rpm with a broader and flatter curve is why the C43 is faster out of the hole.

I'll post my dyno chart on my twin turbo M103....a meager 195HP after turbo install as read on a Mustang load dyno.

Yet I run 5.3-5.5 0-60 and the only track time in extremely cold weather with no traction was 14.39 @ 99 MPH.

So my 195RWP would have about six to seven cars through the traps on the OP's 218 RWP per the Mickey Mouse dyno....

Also it is quicker then my stock 1999 C43...

DarthCY

We understand you like your C36. It is a nice car, but you need to seriously chill out. You obviously don't know much about cars or racing and are really only looking like a newbie who doesn't understand the limitations of your car. Both Silence and Ohlord bring up lots of good points backed up by lots of experience. You should probably listen to them a bit and learn.

Also, you were right about one thing. A 5.5L engine swap will only net around 50 hp because that engine only makes about 45 more hp than the 4.3L engine. However it makes about 90 more ft/lbs of torque which is the more significant number. Thats a lot of twist in a small car. Unfortunately stating that a blower will only net you 50 hp on a V8 makes you look very silly. If you put a blower on a 4.3L V8 and only get 50 hp then you suck at tuning or got ripped off.

I've had a lot of modde cars: Eclipse GSX, Volvo T5, Porsche 951, ect. While all of those probably made more peak power than my stock C43 it has the most unbelievable torque range i've ever seen. It has power off the line and is still scary at redline. That is hard to do. So you can put down the M113 all you want, but it will only make you look foolish. IMHO it is one of the best daily drivers in its niche. This includes E36 M3, Volvo T5, Audi S4, ect. It may not be the flat out best, but its engine dynamics make it suited for the best combination of torque and hp. Something none of the others can claim. M3 is very light on torque and blows in auto trim. T5 has turbo lag and a rough engine. S4 has turbo lag and sucks in auto trim.

If you wanted an all out race car none of these W202s are really for you unless you were looking to spend lots of $$$$. Just go get a B4 S4 or a 1st Gen DSM. Me, im going to enjoy my Mercedes Muscle car and leave the drag racing for my Modded Prosche. Though its not set up for that it just happens to be really fast in a straight line too.

RBYCC

And you own a what....

Oh a C280....

Your knowledge comes from " Google U " which is far from the real world.
No experience in owning either a C36 or c43....?

Live with them and you'll get a good idea which is faster

silence

good point about the tq-

additionally, of course, my my modifications add much more tq than it does hp and does so starting from very low rpms (ie- about as soon as i have started moving/hopefully have gained a bit of traction)


another good point was that these cars really aren't that fast either way and i do include mine in the conversation there.

I also do strongly agree that the C43 as a stock vehicle is more of a pleasure to own than a B5 S4 or E36 M3 (having owned or driven each extensively) and it owes much of that to it's very linear power delivery.

SeeKlasse

haha wow.... ive been out for a day and look at this pile of ****.

pj, sickness.... you guys are young and dream big. the facts are out there in need of thorough review on your behalf.

let me refresh your memory c43 > c36. sorry

hahaHAAAA what are you talking about 50hp gains on a f/i V8!!

Please let me note: enough with this stupid modded car talk. one simple rule with modded cars. the car with the bigger motor will eventually win. i wonder why they dont use racing modified i6 motors and rather v8's in majority of racing events. dtm, nascar etc....

when my 1st c43 was wrecked i didnt even consider buying a c36... you people are crazy, most c36's are really slow with those old 4spd tranny's. i recall hating my crappy 4spd in my old c280... the 97 c280 was much peppier mainly in part to the 5spd auto, and i can imagine the same difference could be noticed between the 96 and 97 c36, not to mention the 97 got a few extra ponies and tq.

sadly, even the 97 c36 isnt much of a competitor to the c43 and more importantly, as per the topic of discussion, installing a 4 lb lighter CP is not going to close the gap...

im with silence..... BANT, i love the concept, its so satisfying

also how bout a lil thread closing action.....

Z06EATER

PJ it's going to take more than 5k to make a C36 faster...nt to bash you bro.
i have just a few things to say, the c36 is a lovely car. so is the c43, in my opinion, i would take C36, for it's body, and inline6, C43 is awesome, but hey, it's an 8 more gas, lower rpms on highway of course, and u spend more cash to maintain, not bashing anyone, i'm not saying the c36 is better, i take back what i said, if the 43 is quicker guess it is but A LOT if that's wat your claiming ohlord. i'm on 20 i can't go against knowledge of someone who's been around longer than me. but all in all, both are excelent cars

ohlord

think we can all agree they are all great cars,you are dead on accurate with that.
so let's chalk up the topic as an educational venture.Light weight pulley,I am sure it is a quality item,members need to decide on dollar per power and come up with their own conclusion.
Members that think an m113 in whatever variation will only gain 50 hp with the addition of a supercharger have never added boost to anything they have owned and need to go back to school.
Saving yourself a grand by not getting your c36 modded only to get it kicked to the curb by a 43,Priceless

Z06EATER you are missed in the W210 section,drop in every now and then

Z06EATER

those C43's are nice tho, i guess when i'm rich like some of the guys on here i'll buy one hahaha and ohlord i will take that into consideration! come to think if it, i miss my e class and that W210 forum!

C36ickness

To everyone that has replied to my post I want to apologize for starting this conflict I don't want it to end in a dispute like this. To everyone that likes the C43 hey nothing against you guys I'm trying to get on myself saving up. But you have to admit for a 6 cylinder car that has a 100lb heavier engine to keep up the way it does in it's stock form is pretty impressive.

For people that may have misunderstood I'm not trying to sell this product or anything, all I am saying is the great benefits it has givin my car.
But yeah we can agree that they are both equally great cars.
So sorry that it sounds close to or the same as other people's posts.

SeeKlasse

its not really even a dispute. i think someone made note that the cp would make the c36 faster than a c43 (or something to that effect) and some people felt obliged to correct the claim. then other people started coming in with different points and tangent claims.

this sort of thing happens around here on a monthly basis... and for some reason the dr usually gets caught up in it. it probably wouldnt have happened but sickness was new here and didnt know how to avoid the inevitable (c43 owners arguing with c36 owners over which car is better lol) it probably happens in other sections like the w203 c32/c55... i bet those guys go at it every now and then. ill tell you one thing... i hate the HUGE speedometers in those pre-facelift w203's lol....

Z06EATER

*slaps forehead* DUDE TELL ME ABOUT IT! ....i feel like ripping my hair out wheni see that. so annoying

Dr. C36

Ok guys,

can we please NOT turn every single thread in this forum into a C36 vs. C43 thread. One of those was already started if you want to talk about it, take the conversation in there b/c it doesn't belong in this thread. Both are great cars and very close to each other. The C36 is NOT sub 5 thats for sure, that I will admit to lol. high 5s is where it is realistically as is C43. You would need a good 50 more HP and drop a good 200 pounds to get it into high 4s which is unrealistic although not impossible (budget is the real limitation more than anything else). Low 5s is definitely possible and relatively easy.

I dont' know where in the world everyone is getting this $5k number from to make a C36 faster, it won't take nearly that much. For $2000-2500 the car can become drastically quicker (for its era/age). It will never be as quick as a modded W210 E55 or W208 CLk55 obviously, but for what it is, it will be very quick and fun car to drive.

The pulleys have been dyno proven over and over again on the forums by the C55/SLk55 guys so really I don't need any dyno testers, and NO I won't send you a pulley for free, nice try though

with that said can we get back on topic here. thanks

Z06EATER

doc, i'm thinkin about one of those pullies, is that a DIY thing?

SeeKlasse

ah yes, the topic remains... i think the pulley is OK but i wont touch it until i get my car chipped, drop it with stiffer spring, get adjustable camber arms, freshen up the brakes, and freshen up the steering assembly... and then ill probly get a CP... i wouldve included the plugs/wires but i already did 'em.

Dr. C36

Well, technically it can be depending on your mechanical ability. It really only one massive bolt but you need a 6foot breaker bar to get it loose. Honestly though its much easier to just take it to a shop and pay a few hours of labor to swap it out, much easier & simpler.

book on it is roughly 2 hours for just the pulley, or 3 hours for pulley, belt & crank seal. I highly recommending upgrading the crank seal b/c MB recently updated the design and the new one is much more robust & thicker than the old one (which was prone to leaking). sometimes shops won't charge you extra for the belt & seal, just depends how "close" you are to your service rep / shop foreman. I highly recommend doin all maintenance while you are in there b/c it will almost always end up costing you more in the long run if you try and save a few bucks now. Hope that helps.

SeeKlasse

apparently you have to have a severe breaker bar to get it off and consequently back on.