That will do nothing! I have O2 CEL's and my car still runs like a beast. Stop grasping at straws.

 

Oooh, Thankss man..!!, i hope your car still always runs like a beast, thats a good thing, but I think this Ques. goes to "Saaboteur", and

every body have right to tell there ideas behind any Ques., even if you don’t like it(:->>>!??!

ZAYED,,

 

Ai yah, still no luck. I spoke with the tech again, he feels it is a timing issue related to the ECU, ie. the cam specs on that motor aren't compatible with the 43's ECU. He said there are a few different changes with the cams across the NA 55 range - but I thought the part numbers were all the same? I'm not sure though...there is an update part number, but it applies to the older 55s too.

The car fires, but then shows symptoms of late ignition. As that's all computer controlled, and not by a distributor, it's not exactly tunable.

He had the intake manifold off already and found nothing amiss either.

Before I swap the 43 engine back in, I don't suppose anyone has an older set of 55 cams I could try out?

 

Sorry if this a stupid question, but at my age.....
Any way of swapping to the 55 ECU or is it totally incompatible with the wiring. An way of finding a spare 43 ECU you could borrow? I understood and have heard by those who have done this swap that the 43 ECU is totally compatible with the 55 engine. I have a feeling that you tech could be taking you on a wild goose chase and if you are paying the hours he takes to find a solution, you could be ending up in a money pit

 

daem man, this will be costly for you.
how much is the stealership goin' to rob ya for checking out the above mentioned stuff??

feel sorry for you not having any luck with your special project.

 

Your 43 cams are very similar to 55 cams. Many people have swapped cams in the 113 engne with not issues. I doubt this is the problem but give it a try.

 

What knock sensors did you use? Did you swap over all the C43 cam crank etc sensors?

 

The 43 ECU and 55 ECUs (up to a certain point, probably 2000 or 2001?) are exactly the same. But my motor is from an '02, so different engine management, but the internals should be the same.

I used the 43's crank sensor, cam sensor and throttle body, along with coil packs. I left the 55's EGR switchover valve, pressure sensor and knock sensors.

Confirmed that there are no stored events in the ECU, no faults whatsoever.

Will the 43 cams fit into the 55? I mean, I'm certain they will physically fit, but will they cause piston/valve interference?

 

Al the parts you switched should be fine. The engine management should not cause and issue either. MB just went from the ME2.0 - ME2.8 You would have to use the 43 engine harness to use the 2.0 ECU. As far as the lift of the Cam goes, use some precision calipers and measure the width and height of an intake lobe and an exhaust lobe. The difference between width and height will be the lobe lift and this can be compared to cams that are known to be fine in the 55.

If your shop has the MB cam alignment tools. the cams can be checked. I believe they hold the cams at 30 degrees before locking them into the sprockets.

 

Good advice,, All 43s & 55s M113 are almost the same, 43s got a different cams part #s than the 55s, also the cylinder Heads has a different
#s,, not sure why..?!, i put 99 C43 cams into an E55 01 & the Harness are the same except the TB connctor only, no issue, same results,,

ECU should read all things perfectly......!!?

ZAYED,,

 

Dude no offense but your mechanic appears to not know what he's doing I swear. I will pm you my number and let you speak to my guy who has done this swap numerous times. There are only two or three people here who I see have given you helpful info and that is Lantana and very few others.

 

I have to agree about the mechanic. He just isn't following a common sense approach to diagnosing this engine. It would be a shame for you to put the 43 back in because of a mechanic that is either not too bright or charging by the hour.

 

Well, the shop I've been dealing with is the only indy Benz shop, and I don't think I'll take it to one of the two dealers, they won't know what's what. To their benefit, the shop hasn't charged me an arm and a leg. I actually just paid the bill this morning, they billed me 6 hours of labour but I know they've got a lot more time into it than that. They've buttoned up the car and it's now waiting for me to arrange a tow to get it home. They've stopped working on it, just can't figure it out.

I don't get it, it sounds like the cams should be fine. I appreciate ProjectC55 offering to lend a hand and hope to connect with him tonight.

 

Oh pls. i hope its not true.., if you always checking the car with this mechanic, you definetly got a sence if he knows exactly what he up

to......!!

ZAYED,,

 

Oh, and they checked the cam timing - with the factory tools that lock the cams into place. All checks out!

 

Waaw vince, what kind of damn devil set in the Engine bay..!!, my head stuck more than yours....

ZAYED,,

 

I'm sorry things haven't worked out as planned Vince but I'll offer you the same encouraging words you offered me during my caliper fiasco:

"Obstacles and difficulties such as these only make you stronger" - Vince T.

 

LOL. Thanks for the support!

 

This swap has been done a few times, so it has to be something unique to your circumstance.

When your mechanic had the car, did they check the "ignition timing"? Not cam, but ignition, because thats where the problem is. You're firing late, early, or at some wrong point and the fuel is washing out the exhaust, right? Basically, did the wrench crank the engine and/or start it as best they could with a timing light attached to the number one so they could see and record the marks on the pulley? Please tell me your pulley has marks, timing tape, or something. If it's not stock, the question of whether the marks are right exists (like you don't have enough things to consider). Anyway, did they compare that number (xx BTDC) to any other 430? If so, were the numbers close? Maybe you can convince one of the other posters to check the timing mark on their 55 powered 202 at idle and tell you what they see. Maybe one of the 430 powered 202 owners can tell you what they see at idle. If a C43 ECU is used, the ignition timing for a 55 and a 430 should be the same AND yours should be close. If not, your ignition is off, and it'll probably be off with the old 430 back in it. Now, why would the ignition be "off"?

On a related note.

Did you clean the flex plate? The reason I ask is, in the past I remember reading about repeated CPS failures, someone dragging their car to a dealer and after special $100 paste was applied to the flex plate ring gear, the problem went away. My thinking is "if" the flex plate has this $100 paste on it, AND said paste was washed off, AND that paste helps the CPS pick up the signal . . . . . . maybe the CPS is intermittently picking up the timing mark. No, I don't remember which forum I read about the CPS and the paste on, but I do have the part number. It's 0009897651 and it is $100. Of course, I may have this all wrong and the paste may be for something else. If so, that "something" could only be the starter, because nothing else cares about the ring gear. Unless I've overlooked something (which happens quite often) and it's truly something else. In that case, someone will post and I'll have an "oh yeah, that's right" moment.

Of course, the intake manifold could be leaking, but that would not impact ignition timing.

OK, off to bed.

 

Oh yeah, one last thing; SpeedyBenz has ignition specs.

 

Googled the # and found this on the "other" forum: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r129...e-start-3.html Special grease for starter pinion. Talks not to put too much on otherwise you may have problems with the CPS reading correctly.

 

Have you set the 43 to TDC and compared flywheel position with the 55 at TDC? If the air gap is in a different place then that's the problem but I've yet to see that you've done this. If it is in the same place then its definately an wiring or sensor fault somewhere. I am a frm believer in cause and effect. If it was running before...

Another thought...
Maybe the 55 knock sensors got damaged in the fire and are sending out a bad signal to the ecu which is going crazy with the timing

 

Yeah I think the paste is for starter gear not engaging properly, not sure if it's ignition timing related. That paste goes on the ring gear, not on the shutter wheel.

By checking ignition Marcus, you mean old school? Timing light and all? Haven't done that.

 

Spoke with Jeffrey, Carl (ProjectC55)'s mechanic, who did the swap on his car, and a few other C43s. Jeffrey knows his stuff, he's involved in a C/SLK32 engine swap into a CLK320 (if I'm not mistaken) and a CL600 twin turbo V12 into a W211 E55.

Anyway, Jeffrey believes there is something up with the motor. Everything else should work just fine. He was theorising hydro lock from the engine fire, ie. too much fuel pumped into the cylinders without combustion, then leading to something up with the internals. Not fun!

Apparently, even bent con rods could show even compression, if the engine is cranked sufficiently. So the initial distance the needle travels is perhaps more indicative.

He also advised to try to start the motor with the MAF and O2 sensors disconnected entirely, and also to check the cam lobes themselves, by removing the valve covers.

So....unfortunately, no new answers, just more questions. I hope nothing is up the motor!!!

 

LoL, I like this mechanic, thats why i asked previously to disconnect the O2 sensor, Thankss...!!

keep going Vince, after all that suffering, it must be solved, GOOD LUCK.....

ZAYED,,