started tear down for paint
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c43 amg
Very possible I'm afraid. The more stretched the chain is, the more likely it can happen.
What can happen is that as you trun the crank backwards the chain pulls tight and compresses the tensioner before actualy turning the camshafts. What happens then is the slack chain 'pools' below the crankshaft sprocket and fails to pick up correctly when rotated the correct way.
Its not the end of the world though, just need to undo tensioner and cam sprockets and re-align
What can happen is that as you trun the crank backwards the chain pulls tight and compresses the tensioner before actualy turning the camshafts. What happens then is the slack chain 'pools' below the crankshaft sprocket and fails to pick up correctly when rotated the correct way.
Its not the end of the world though, just need to undo tensioner and cam sprockets and re-align
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eclectic assortment of cars
Dunno what's what. Brought in the 55 flywheel and the crank pulley that was on the 55 this morning. Had a look over the car too. The front end of the motor is all lined up - but not the rear. Too weird. The flywheel is like 100* off!
More answers later. The trans is coming out right now, and I'll be back at the shop at lunch to see what's up. On a positive note, the new trans mount and shifter bushing will go in too. The latter was almost toast.
More answers later. The trans is coming out right now, and I'll be back at the shop at lunch to see what's up. On a positive note, the new trans mount and shifter bushing will go in too. The latter was almost toast.
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12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG + Ultima Can-Am sold)
What do you mean by a different line up between front and rear 
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Okay, well the crank pulley is connected to the cams by the timing chain. With the Mercedes tools in place, the cams are locked into position (a certain position, the tools have slots that fit into the cams) and then the crank pulley then lines up at a certain spot indicated on the timing cover. At this time, the flywheel should also be lined up in a certain spot - there is a larger gap than anywhere else on the shutter wheel. That larger gap is supposed to line up with the hole where the crank position sensor sits.
But the larger gap is not lining up. The front end of the motor is good, but not the rear. Weird.
One explanation is that the flywheel is not mounted correctly. But that is hard to believe given that the flywheel can only sit onto the crankshaft in one way - that is because of the dowel on the crank. So something has to be really buggered up there, or the flywheels are different - but they aren't because I checked the part numbers.
It's a puzzle. Hopefully will know more in a few hours...
But the larger gap is not lining up. The front end of the motor is good, but not the rear. Weird.
One explanation is that the flywheel is not mounted correctly. But that is hard to believe given that the flywheel can only sit onto the crankshaft in one way - that is because of the dowel on the crank. So something has to be really buggered up there, or the flywheels are different - but they aren't because I checked the part numbers.
It's a puzzle. Hopefully will know more in a few hours...
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From: Dallas
'99 C43
The only logical explaination is that the tech's are looking at the wrong spot on the flywheel....or the crank is broken. Sorry for the "it's a brain tumor" humor from Kindergarden Cop.
I think it's got to be something else. But I too feel your pain and am anxiously waiting on the outcome. Thanks for sharing...
I think it's got to be something else. But I too feel your pain and am anxiously waiting on the outcome. Thanks for sharing...
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Well, the trans has been off and is now back on, with the 55 flywheel back onto the motor too. Disappointingly, the flywheel was on correctly, and the two flywheels are the same. I'm disappointed because we are still scratching our heads as to what is up. The tech was asking me if the motor had been rebuilt - as far as I know, the answer is negative, as possibly there were issues with reassembly. He's theorising that the cams somehow got swapped around from side to side. But that also makes no sense if the car was running beforehand. The 55's wiring harness was all melted from the engine fire, so the car had to have been running.
And I never mucked around with the crank or cams, the only things I did were to change the front and rear main seals, and the valve cover gaskets. So the tech is not faulting any work I did (which is pleasing to me) but the bloody thing is still not running!!! Grr.
He's going to do a compression test and see if he can find anything. Large differences would tend to show something. And I suppose he will also rotate the engine enough to see the casting numbers on the cams to see if they were indeed mixed up somehow.
And I never mucked around with the crank or cams, the only things I did were to change the front and rear main seals, and the valve cover gaskets. So the tech is not faulting any work I did (which is pleasing to me) but the bloody thing is still not running!!! Grr.
He's going to do a compression test and see if he can find anything. Large differences would tend to show something. And I suppose he will also rotate the engine enough to see the casting numbers on the cams to see if they were indeed mixed up somehow.
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From: A.D., U.A.E
2000 (W202 C200) & 2000 (W202 C55)
Well, the trans has been off and is now back on, with the 55 flywheel back onto the motor too. Disappointingly, the flywheel was on correctly, and the two flywheels are the same. I'm disappointed because we are still scratching our heads as to what is up. The tech was asking me if the motor had been rebuilt - as far as I know, the answer is negative, as possibly there were issues with reassembly. He's theorising that the cams somehow got swapped around from side to side. But that also makes no sense if the car was running beforehand. The 55's wiring harness was all melted from the engine fire, so the car had to have been running.
And I never mucked around with the crank or cams, the only things I did were to change the front and rear main seals, and the valve cover gaskets. So the tech is not faulting any work I did (which is pleasing to me) but the bloody thing is still not running!!! Grr.
He's going to do a compression test and see if he can find anything. Large differences would tend to show something. And I suppose he will also rotate the engine enough to see the casting numbers on the cams to see if they were indeed mixed up somehow.
And I never mucked around with the crank or cams, the only things I did were to change the front and rear main seals, and the valve cover gaskets. So the tech is not faulting any work I did (which is pleasing to me) but the bloody thing is still not running!!! Grr.
He's going to do a compression test and see if he can find anything. Large differences would tend to show something. And I suppose he will also rotate the engine enough to see the casting numbers on the cams to see if they were indeed mixed up somehow.
Do you know surely, if this Engine was only firing or waterfall.......??
ZAYED,,
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eclectic assortment of cars
Zayed, you got me there, I'm not sure I understand what you mean?
I had pulled a Carfax report on the car before I bought the motor, and it showed it was written off due to an engine fire. This was confirmed when the engine arrived, with the wiring harness mostly melted. Later inspection found that the fitting on the fuel rail to the fuel line was bent out of shape.
I had pulled a Carfax report on the car before I bought the motor, and it showed it was written off due to an engine fire. This was confirmed when the engine arrived, with the wiring harness mostly melted. Later inspection found that the fitting on the fuel rail to the fuel line was bent out of shape.
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From: A.D., U.A.E
2000 (W202 C200) & 2000 (W202 C55)
As i remember 4 years ago, when my friend brought his "M112 SLK 320" Engine from ebay, the shop said this Engine is working,
before moved it from the car but little ticky sound comes from the lift Head,,, but after arrived, we discovered some salty
hiding under the Head gasket, open the Engine, woowoow, like swiming pool in Heltonia beach...!!
ZAYED,,
before moved it from the car but little ticky sound comes from the lift Head,,, but after arrived, we discovered some salty
hiding under the Head gasket, open the Engine, woowoow, like swiming pool in Heltonia beach...!!
ZAYED,,
Last edited by cm60k; Oct 12, 2011 at 07:53 PM.
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From: SCV SoCal
2002 CLK430
You had the oil pan off to swap them. It would be hard to miss a busted crank. On top of that, it ran and if the rear was 100 degrees off from the front, it would be really loud. So let’s assume the crank is OK. Hard to believe BOTH flex plates are wrong, so lets scratch that. Is it possible the mechanic has the wrong spec for the flex plate timing mark? I've never seen it, is it possible the flex plate is flipped? The wrong side is facing the crank? That may throw the rear timing mark off.
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100% certain the flexplate is mounted correctly. There is no other way it would fit, and also the torque converter wouldn't fit either. I had a look at the WIS and it doesn't include any indication that the flexplate must be in a certain position when the cams are lined up - that's what the mark on the crank pulley is for.
But that still doesn't make sense - if the timing is fine, there is no reason the motor shouldn't run. I am at a loss....
But that still doesn't make sense - if the timing is fine, there is no reason the motor shouldn't run. I am at a loss....
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12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG + Ultima Can-Am sold)
Hmmm, this could end up being the start of a new thread: "The mystery of a swapped 55 engine". I'm sure something will crop up and a solution found. Keeping my fingers crossed though and not an expensive solution
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C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
And are you 100% sure the cam timing is correct? A tooth off or two or three and then you'll have the crazee miss fire issues guaranteed.
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I was there when they had the valve covers off and the cam locking tools in place - it all looked fine to me. I suppose the crank pulley keystock may have sheared off, but I find that unlikely too - and if it had, the crank pulley wouldn't be lining up where it should be with the cams in their proper place too.
I'm out of ideas. I hope they figures something out. The tech is convinced it's not the MAF, but I've asked him to indulge me and to try out one of the three I've left over there.
I'm out of ideas. I hope they figures something out. The tech is convinced it's not the MAF, but I've asked him to indulge me and to try out one of the three I've left over there.
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From: Lantana TX
2004 Chrysler Crossfire
I am assuming you also swapped the wiring harness since the old one was burned up and you need a harness to hook up to the ME2.0 ECU? Anything possible wrong with the wiring?
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Harness swapped right over from the 43. The car was running when I drove it into the garage. The tech couldn't find anything up with the wiring either, and he had the fuse/relay cover off to have a look, he also checked the throttle body connector to be sure no pins were bent. I was quite careful not to damage any of the connectors. Nothing! It's driving me nuts! Maybe I'll just put the 43 motor back in and sell the car and buy something else. If I can scrounge up enough cash, there's a nice '06 S4 Avant, '05 C55 (a real C55!) or maybe an '04 C32 in the local classifieds. Frankly, the Audi's AWD is better suited to my winter climate. But I am cheap and don't want to make the spend, as the next car I wanted to really buy is my dentist's Performance Pack C63 (once it depreciates enough and he's bored with it!!).
Boo.
Boo.
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From: A.D., U.A.E
2000 (W202 C200) & 2000 (W202 C55)
Harness swapped right over from the 43. The car was running when I drove it into the garage. The tech couldn't find anything up with the wiring either, and he had the fuse/relay cover off to have a look, he also checked the throttle body connector to be sure no pins were bent. I was quite careful not to damage any of the connectors. Nothing! It's driving me nuts! Maybe I'll just put the 43 motor back in and sell the car and buy something else. If I can scrounge up enough cash, there's a nice '06 S4 Avant, '05 C55 (a real C55!) or maybe an '04 C32 in the local classifieds. Frankly, the Audi's AWD is better suited to my winter climate. But I am cheap and don't want to make the spend, as the next car I wanted to really buy is my dentist's Performance Pack C63 (once it depreciates enough and he's bored with it!!).
Boo.
Boo.
I know that damn feeling (average down to loosing challenge), every cent you spend & every second from your mind thought
DESERVE to have a fantastic Ride.......
ZAYED,,
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From: Lantana TX
2004 Chrysler Crossfire
If it makes you feel any better, this has been a few days for you. When I did my swap, it took a month and half before I ever heard the engine fire, due to trying to figure out how to hack the MB computer and code it to a Crossfire. There were many times I thought to myself, "why did I ruin a perfectly good car" It was very depressing and I have felt your pain first hand. Stay patient and keep at it. You will find the issue.
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Ai yah....still no luck. Just chatted with the tech. He's found NOTHING wrong with the motor. Compression is all even, about 175-180 all around - but the motor's cold if those numbers seem low. But the fact that they are even is good news for the health of the motor. The cam timing has been triple checked, no chance of skipped teeth. The tech remarked at how clean everything underneath the valve covers are, and also did not notice any signs of the cams ever having been out. I checked the old Carfax report I ran and it never showed major surgery like that, just typical maintenance stuff like plugs, oil, MAF, etc.
His discussions with another experienced tech (his old shop foreman from his dealership days) was that the motor is firing late, hence the excessive unburnt fuel into the cats. The pipes (and not just the cats) got hot enough that some of the fabric heat shielding/sound deadening underneath got singed, just from ambient heat.
Now the only things left to try to pursue are: a) the MAF - he's going to try the aftermarket one, but he's also pessimistic that's not the issue; and b) trying to find differences between the various 113.980 motors. I have heard anecdotally that the later motors had a half point bump in compression, can anyone confirm? Also can anyone confirm that there may be different cam profiles after a certain year or engine serial number? My 55 is out of an '02 E55, so it should be one of the last of the NA E55s, but I wouldn't have thought there would be major differences in the engines between the various model years?
His discussions with another experienced tech (his old shop foreman from his dealership days) was that the motor is firing late, hence the excessive unburnt fuel into the cats. The pipes (and not just the cats) got hot enough that some of the fabric heat shielding/sound deadening underneath got singed, just from ambient heat.
Now the only things left to try to pursue are: a) the MAF - he's going to try the aftermarket one, but he's also pessimistic that's not the issue; and b) trying to find differences between the various 113.980 motors. I have heard anecdotally that the later motors had a half point bump in compression, can anyone confirm? Also can anyone confirm that there may be different cam profiles after a certain year or engine serial number? My 55 is out of an '02 E55, so it should be one of the last of the NA E55s, but I wouldn't have thought there would be major differences in the engines between the various model years?
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From: A.D., U.A.E
2000 (W202 C200) & 2000 (W202 C55)
Ai yah....still no luck. Just chatted with the tech. He's found NOTHING wrong with the motor. Compression is all even, about 175-180 all around - but the motor's cold if those numbers seem low. But the fact that they are even is good news for the health of the motor. The cam timing has been triple checked, no chance of skipped teeth. The tech remarked at how clean everything underneath the valve covers are, and also did not notice any signs of the cams ever having been out. I checked the old Carfax report I ran and it never showed major surgery like that, just typical maintenance stuff like plugs, oil, MAF, etc.
His discussions with another experienced tech (his old shop foreman from his dealership days) was that the motor is firing late, hence the excessive unburnt fuel into the cats. The pipes (and not just the cats) got hot enough that some of the fabric heat shielding/sound deadening underneath got singed, just from ambient heat.
Now the only things left to try to pursue are: a) the MAF - he's going to try the aftermarket one, but he's also pessimistic that's not the issue; and b) trying to find differences between the various 113.980 motors. I have heard anecdotally that the later motors had a half point bump in compression, can anyone confirm? Also can anyone confirm that there may be different cam profiles after a certain year or engine serial number? My 55 is out of an '02 E55, so it should be one of the last of the NA E55s, but I wouldn't have thought there would be major differences in the engines between the various model years?
His discussions with another experienced tech (his old shop foreman from his dealership days) was that the motor is firing late, hence the excessive unburnt fuel into the cats. The pipes (and not just the cats) got hot enough that some of the fabric heat shielding/sound deadening underneath got singed, just from ambient heat.
Now the only things left to try to pursue are: a) the MAF - he's going to try the aftermarket one, but he's also pessimistic that's not the issue; and b) trying to find differences between the various 113.980 motors. I have heard anecdotally that the later motors had a half point bump in compression, can anyone confirm? Also can anyone confirm that there may be different cam profiles after a certain year or engine serial number? My 55 is out of an '02 E55, so it should be one of the last of the NA E55s, but I wouldn't have thought there would be major differences in the engines between the various model years?
All "M113.980-81-82-84-86" 55s sharing a same Cams & timing things, but not so sure about compression......
ZAYED,,
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I just spent some time on the EPC and it looks to me like all cams and rotating assemblies are the same whatever 113.980. The only difference is a change in ring gear from engine serial number 60 046180 onwards, but my 55's serial number is 60 028414, ie. within that range.
It's making less and less sense now!!!!
It's making less and less sense now!!!!
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From: Lantana TX
2004 Chrysler Crossfire
The latter 55's had 11:1 compression and the earlier ones had 10.5:1 there are no differences that would account for this. Is it throwing any codes at all? It would seem like it would have to. Your computer should run this engine just fine. What I would do which I already mentioned is to hook up SDS and go into the ECU actual values and start it up. You can see everything that is happeining by cylinder. Plug wires good and pished all the way on? Back coil pack? Doubt it is MAF.
