appatula

This has been a problem that has been creeping up for some time now, I'd feel the car just loose power and get shaky. Knew it was a dead cyl so I'd just turn the ignition key off then back on while going down the road and it would return back to normal operation. Scanner also confirmed the misfire on cyl 3 (P0303). Unfortunately this has gotten much worst.

Now at any point when I put any load on the engine or push the throttle semi aggressively it goes out, now TWO cylinders are dead until I do the usual ignition off/on trick but that only lasts until I step down on the throttle again. I just put new Bosch Platinum plugs in this week along with an oil change. Bosch Supers were what came out and looked fairly good, maybe a bit hot but they looked fine. I've got three codes:

P0300- Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0303- Cylinder #3 Misfire Detected
P0305- Cylinder #5 Misfire Detected

• The coil packs all read the exact same ohm wise (checked secondary and primary coils) Not only that but cyl 3 and 5 are not in a "batch fire" so that made my heart sink as I was hoping it would be the coilpack.
  
• The plug wires all ohm out at exactly 2k ohms.
  
• I slit open the coil pack connector cable to check the wires, they obviously had been replaced with the engine harness
  
• I gutted the cat a while back
  
• Did get a faulty O2 code a while back, just cleared it and made a mental note to pick up a O2 sensor defouler down the road.
  
• I've just put three cans of B-12 Chemtool fuel injector cleaner in a quarter tank of gas, will give it a hard run later tonight in hopes that the injectors are clogged? Tried to find Toluene but no-go so I picked up some Xylene.

Either way I doubt it is the injectors as all I have to do is turn the ignition off, then back on and it is fine until put under load then the cylinders go out again. I don't know what to do, where to look, or if I should be scared that its something awful expensive to fix.

Should I post freeze frame data of the three codes? All the freeze frame data is identical for each separate code, same load, map kph, RPM, mph. So this is all happening right at the same time fro some really weird/odd/stupid reason and I don't know what to do....help me out guys what's the next step?

jumph4x

Noooo! Dude. That sucks. I was going to throw the usual 'harness connector ends' comment out, but I know your stuff is all good and replaced. Hrm.

EDIT: I got it! Listen here, this is what we can try: you have unused knock sensors for me, but I have an unused crankshaft reference sensor for you. Its in a really tight spot, but I pulled it off with my big hands, you can too. Exchange of goods when I swing by to pick up the coil compressors?

appatula

Denis you are the man, I'll go look for those knock sensors! I'm going to autozone and picking up Bosch super coppers......I dont trust these platinums I didn't want to even buy them but that was the only Bosch plug wal-mart had . I googled "cylinder 3 and 5 misfire" seems as if anything with wheels on it does not like the Platinum marketing gimmick. I think it's the plugs, so here I go out into the arctic driveway....post results soon.



BTW: The mail in rebeates for the damn plugs were expired 09/31/2008 talk about sitting on the shelf! If these were the cause, I am raising holy hell with whoever the poor person that answered there cust support number.

appatula

Okay, this is weird stuff!!!!

.....and since not to many people have responded I expect this thread to sink into the depths of our forum pages. Therefore I NEED YOU TO RATE THIS THREAD. This will help someone down the road without a doubt guys.


1) I spent this morning focusing on Cylinders 3 and 5. Swapped the two Platinum plugs with two of the best looking Bosch coppers I originally replaced, still misfired.

So I backed in the driveway and kept the thoughts racing, whilist mom arrived home and blocked me in . So thus I continued on.......

2) I proceeded to get the car in a misfiring state by creating some nice white smoke in the driveway. (didn't want to move moms civic) Once idling and misfiring I pulled each plug boot, started with cyl#1. Pulled it and NO DIFFERENCE IN IDLE. Then naturally since these are batched, I pulled the coil pack out of cyl#6, NO DIFFERENCE IN IDLE.

3) Now I am certain the coil-pack is shot, why would both cylinders be dead on the corresponding coil-pack? Then another thing occurred to me, I got zapped real good by both #1 and #6 wires so spark was there! I still replaced the coil-pack with an OEM one.....just because I can.

**(No money was spent. The prev owner threw in three working coil-packs, new MAF, new wires, grill, and some other tidbits troubleshooting what was a faulty EGR valve.....go figure so I've got tons of stuff laying around)**

4) Okay so process of elimination, the OBDII codes for cyl 3 & 5 were either wrong, or it was a fluke. Basically led me straight down the wrong path of troubleshooting glory. I popped two of the old Bosch coppers in cyl's #1 & #6.

Floored this sucker all the way to autozone ( >1 mile) not a hint of stumble or misfire. I was then met with another fork in the road. Should I go with the tried and true Bosch coppers, or give in to the Bosch Super +? Seeing as I went through all of this in hopes to actually "tune-UP" the car I went with what seemed to be the more exotic, Bosch Super +. They are perfectly gapped at .032" right out of the box. Of course I had my torque wrench in the trunk so they went in at the parking lot. I had a wonderful, powerful, smooth ride home. Happy ending to this story and I hope those who are either stuck at wal-mart and buy Platinums or any other bulls!it marketed crap will benefit from my trial and error down the road.

MORAL OF THE SPARK PLUG STORY:
Stick with OEM, Bosch Copper, or now Bosch Super +

STAY AWAY FROM: Platinums, iridium, magic lightning plugs, and people trying to sell you trees that grow money.

jayrasheed

wow ben!!!!! u just solved my rare coil pack fault!!!!!!!!!!!
very rarely i start the car and it starts with a miss fire
just like u mentioned above. i restart the car and its fine
now i know y cause im using platin +4 plugs, mmmmmm too bad i loved those
and now they will be out sooon then,
thnx

MarcusF

Another "no love for the 'magic' plugs" story. It makes perfect sense. The AMG guys with a PhD who designed the car DID pick the right plug after all. Good to hear that you've got it figured out. I was thinking fried harness.

jumph4x

I almost want to start a charity service on resoldering those freaking harnesses...

appatula

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarcusF

The AMG guys with a PhD who designed the car DID pick the right plug after all.

Marcus, this is absolute truth. Time and time again I hear of horror stories from people who fall for these marketing gimmicks. I, in all honesty did not want to buy the Platinums but Wal-mart only had those and Champions. I've always been a Bosch stickler, though I was telling myself that "It's a gimmick Benny boy" but had no choice. Ironically I bet the Champions would have done just fine. Thank god no wiring harness issues, bought the car specifically because it had the harness done and non 5-spd, I don't need failing tranny issues down the road . I Just completed the whole transmission harness as well so she should be solid from electrical gremlins.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jayrasheed

wow ben!!!!! u just solved my rare coil pack fault!!!!!!!!!!!

Jay, I really hope this will solve your issue bro, just take those friggen plug out and buy the cheap Bosch coppers or super +'s. I noticed you mentioned the misfire on morning startups, did the ASR light activate when this happened? In the mornings my car use to always illuminate the ASR light on a first start and we both know how awful it is to have to drive with it like that. Anyhow after the cold morning start I'd rev it two-three times shut it down and restart, problem solved! I rewired the electronic throttle actuator and everything is minted out on it so there has to be another reason it did this. I wonder if these plugs will solve this issue! Stay posted my brotha!


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Quote:

Originally Posted by jumph4x

I almost want to start a charity service on resoldering those freaking harnesses...

Lets do it. I can legit make molds of the original connector/plug casings. We both learned about the existance "friciton tape" I'd even go as far as heat-shrinking every cable length just to proivide an extreme quality product. Could most likely cut the dealership price in half and still make bank. Hard part would be finding a source for the pins or machining a jig to punch then out of band steel then bend them up.


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Motorsport3

Nice!! That's good to hear the problem is fixed!!
and damn... I just got the denso iridium and magnecor wires...
I'm gonna google iridium horror stories before I put them on.

ohlord

with an m104 should know you use copper plugs.
Anybody with a m113 should know you use single electrode platinum plugs.
The only hype on bosch or others is thinking more electrodes the better.
M104 and M119 always copper
m112 m113 always platinum
as for overpriced magnecor wires they cause almost as many misfire related issues as the wrong plugs.OEM wires on the m112 and m113 perform and last forever if not abused and removed with the 17mm boot tool.

Motorsport3

Thank you my lord!!
I just googled on magnecor and iridium plugs and I didn't find horror stories about iridium plugs.. but magnecor wires had really opposite reviews on several forums..
I'll give them a shot and if they go down south they will be off the car imediately.

appatula

I'd be the very last person to make any blanket statements as I don't think they are wise, though I don't disagree .01% . The only blanket statement I will make is that you need non-resistor based plugs for the M103's which you can ONLY get from NGK Europe. Bosch discontinued them, NGK USA doesn't have them either.

Back to the point,
I've been through the ringer here and have actually installed, driven, and inspected each of the Bosch Platinum, Bosch Copper, and Bosch Super +'s. All had been gapped at .032" (excluding the platinums) and all were torqued at 21-22ft lbs.

Platinums, again are no go. I have heard people running Iridiums and some other fancy plugs and all they did was rave about them so I won't go off saying they won't work. The point is that they won't work any better than the $2-$3 Bosch Copper/Super+'s. Some claim that their 20 dollar plugs last 100k miles. My Copper's lasted at LEAST 20k so ultimately you end up spending $10-$15 per cylinder if you replace them every 20k miles over a 100k period. Comes down to $60 every 100k. Conclusion? If you are paying over $10 a plug for something that is guaranteed to last 100k you are at the very best breaking even because there full of it to begin with . I don't want the same plugs in my engine for more than 25-30k anyhow, hell if I get the urge I buy them just because I feel like wrenchin' sometimes.

Bosch Copper, yes. Bosch Super +, ABSOLUTLEY as far as I am concerned. The only thing here is which of the two will last longer. My Coppers were installed around 145k and I started getting random misfires around 160-165k. I don't actually know when the Coppers were installed as they came with the car at 145 when I bought her last Dec. But when the Super +'s start misfiring I'll hopefully remember this thread and update everyone. Glad this has SPARKED interest!

Time to !!