C43 engine on a C450
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Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 49
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2016 Mercedes C450
C43 engine on a C450
Hello,
I was curious to know whether a 2017-18 (PFL) C43 engine would mount to a C450 due to the different transmissions and programming?
For those who are curious like me, below is a bit more detail to add context.
I know for sure one of my cylinders is gone and rather than rebuilding it right now, I am looking for a used replacement motor in the meantime. I know one from a C400 or C450 would be okay due to the transmission being the same, but I am not sure if a C43 motor would cause any issues when installing and hooking up all electricals/sensors.
I still do not know in detail the cause of the failure. The car was initially idling rough, I took it to a shop for them to check and there were no CEL codes (not Mercedes as car has a few modifications - downpipes / intercooler / cai / Eurocharged custom stage 2 tune). They checked the motor mount and MAF sensor with no issue. I then drove the car out of the shop and while merging on the highway there was catastrophic failure, the car was driving in a way I never experienced before, I was not pushing hard at this moment as the fear was still lingering.
When the shop received the car back there were three codes:
- P219-E7 cylinder #3
- P1CE5-77 Fuel Injector lean mixture one cylinder
- P1CEF-85 Fuel Injector balance limit reached
I know another member blew up his motor a few weeks ago on his C450 as well, his was due to injector stuck (can't recall if it was stuck open or closed).
While I am curious to the culprit, my main focus at the time is finding a replacement motor, so, does the C43 motor fit to a C450? Or should I limit my search to C400's and C450's only?
Thanks in advance
I was curious to know whether a 2017-18 (PFL) C43 engine would mount to a C450 due to the different transmissions and programming?
For those who are curious like me, below is a bit more detail to add context.
I know for sure one of my cylinders is gone and rather than rebuilding it right now, I am looking for a used replacement motor in the meantime. I know one from a C400 or C450 would be okay due to the transmission being the same, but I am not sure if a C43 motor would cause any issues when installing and hooking up all electricals/sensors.
I still do not know in detail the cause of the failure. The car was initially idling rough, I took it to a shop for them to check and there were no CEL codes (not Mercedes as car has a few modifications - downpipes / intercooler / cai / Eurocharged custom stage 2 tune). They checked the motor mount and MAF sensor with no issue. I then drove the car out of the shop and while merging on the highway there was catastrophic failure, the car was driving in a way I never experienced before, I was not pushing hard at this moment as the fear was still lingering.
When the shop received the car back there were three codes:
- P219-E7 cylinder #3
- P1CE5-77 Fuel Injector lean mixture one cylinder
- P1CEF-85 Fuel Injector balance limit reached
I know another member blew up his motor a few weeks ago on his C450 as well, his was due to injector stuck (can't recall if it was stuck open or closed).
While I am curious to the culprit, my main focus at the time is finding a replacement motor, so, does the C43 motor fit to a C450? Or should I limit my search to C400's and C450's only?
Thanks in advance
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 323
Likes: 103
From: Central Florida
'15 C400 and '15 ML350
C43 motor would work. the motor from a GLC43 should also work, but you may need to swap accessories.
M276 DELA 30 should all be pretty much the same baring some debate over turbo internals changing across years. Maybe be the first to take a newer FL C43 motor and see if it indeed has more power from the turbos given the C450 tune will still be on the car.
From what ive read, the 9G trans is built in the same transfer case as the 7G.
Also we dont have a MAF sensor, did you mean MAP sensor?
M276 DELA 30 should all be pretty much the same baring some debate over turbo internals changing across years. Maybe be the first to take a newer FL C43 motor and see if it indeed has more power from the turbos given the C450 tune will still be on the car.
From what ive read, the 9G trans is built in the same transfer case as the 7G.
Also we dont have a MAF sensor, did you mean MAP sensor?
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 49
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2016 Mercedes C450
@MatthewJ Thanks for the response brother.
Yes I'm familiar with the debate, personally due to the economics of it I am off the opinion they just increased boost.
While I would like to have a newer engine on there I have to say with all the issues the tuners had with the FL models makes me cautious (CPC module) and I will probably not be pursuing that route.
Do you by any chance remember where you came across the information about the transfer cases being the same? Would be very curious to read this and get more understanding.
Yes I do mean MAP sensor. I had my intercooler hose/clamp assembly to the throttle body come loose a couple of times. I was able to get it back in place each time but it kept getting loose, happened three times. So I bought a new hose/clamp assembly, replaced it (pain in the a** with the large intercooler in place) and then it stopped coming loose. This is the reason I asked the shop to check the MAP sensor to see if it was functioning properly and they said it was, I have my doubts they did this now. If the MAP sensor is actually damaged and not sending the right signals to the ECU then Injectors, it is a matter of time until something bad happens. The car is at a different shop now and I will ask them to double check this. The trouble is there were no CEL, and after more research, MAP sensors when damaged, because they are still sending a voltage, just not the right one, to the ECU, can sometimes not trigger a CEL... Look at me speculating away...
Yes I'm familiar with the debate, personally due to the economics of it I am off the opinion they just increased boost.
While I would like to have a newer engine on there I have to say with all the issues the tuners had with the FL models makes me cautious (CPC module) and I will probably not be pursuing that route.
Do you by any chance remember where you came across the information about the transfer cases being the same? Would be very curious to read this and get more understanding.
Yes I do mean MAP sensor. I had my intercooler hose/clamp assembly to the throttle body come loose a couple of times. I was able to get it back in place each time but it kept getting loose, happened three times. So I bought a new hose/clamp assembly, replaced it (pain in the a** with the large intercooler in place) and then it stopped coming loose. This is the reason I asked the shop to check the MAP sensor to see if it was functioning properly and they said it was, I have my doubts they did this now. If the MAP sensor is actually damaged and not sending the right signals to the ECU then Injectors, it is a matter of time until something bad happens. The car is at a different shop now and I will ask them to double check this. The trouble is there were no CEL, and after more research, MAP sensors when damaged, because they are still sending a voltage, just not the right one, to the ECU, can sometimes not trigger a CEL... Look at me speculating away...
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 323
Likes: 103
From: Central Florida
'15 C400 and '15 ML350
Dont have the link where i read the 9G was build off of the same case as the 7G. With a quick google search i came across this which aludes to the same information:
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaS...ml?oid=9904505
"With the change in generation from the 7G-TRONIC to the 9G-TRONIC, the development engineers placed further emphasis on the area of "compact lightweight design". Despite two additional gears and a maximum transferable torque of up to 1000 newton metres, the new automatic transmission requires just as little installation space as its predecessor, the 7G-TRONIC PLUS, and is also one kilogram lighter.
The two-piece housing design has been retained: the torque converter housing is made of lightweight aluminium alloy. The transmission housing with a weight-optimised plastic oil pan is made of an even lighter magnesium alloy."
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaS...ml?oid=9904505
"With the change in generation from the 7G-TRONIC to the 9G-TRONIC, the development engineers placed further emphasis on the area of "compact lightweight design". Despite two additional gears and a maximum transferable torque of up to 1000 newton metres, the new automatic transmission requires just as little installation space as its predecessor, the 7G-TRONIC PLUS, and is also one kilogram lighter.
The two-piece housing design has been retained: the torque converter housing is made of lightweight aluminium alloy. The transmission housing with a weight-optimised plastic oil pan is made of an even lighter magnesium alloy."
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 49
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2016 Mercedes C450
It had 55,000 miles when it broke. The other member had 53,000... Mercedes is not saying anything but a tuning company has also seen this happen to other C450's and their injectors failing.
The other member didn't even have any warning, it was from one moment to another. Mine I at least had time to try and fix it, but the shop misdiagnosed it and then the car blew up. The car gave no codes prior to something going wrong, only afterwards.
I'm not sure exactly what type of power I was making but my best 1/4 mile was 11.5 @ 120MPH on 93 pump gas.
Therefore if you have a rough idle and you have been able to eliminate most of the root causes of the problem, not a bad thing to spend the money to check your injectors, I wish I had been more forceful about this with the shop.
The other member didn't even have any warning, it was from one moment to another. Mine I at least had time to try and fix it, but the shop misdiagnosed it and then the car blew up. The car gave no codes prior to something going wrong, only afterwards.
I'm not sure exactly what type of power I was making but my best 1/4 mile was 11.5 @ 120MPH on 93 pump gas.
Therefore if you have a rough idle and you have been able to eliminate most of the root causes of the problem, not a bad thing to spend the money to check your injectors, I wish I had been more forceful about this with the shop.
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 323
Likes: 103
From: Central Florida
'15 C400 and '15 ML350
It had 55,000 miles when it broke. The other member had 53,000... Mercedes is not saying anything but a tuning company has also seen this happen to other C450's and their injectors failing.
The other member didn't even have any warning, it was from one moment to another. Mine I at least had time to try and fix it, but the shop misdiagnosed it and then the car blew up. The car gave no codes prior to something going wrong, only afterwards.
I'm not sure exactly what type of power I was making but my best 1/4 mile was 11.5 @ 120MPH on 93 pump gas.
Therefore if you have a rough idle and you have been able to eliminate most of the root causes of the problem, not a bad thing to spend the money to check your injectors, I wish I had been more forceful about this with the shop.
The other member didn't even have any warning, it was from one moment to another. Mine I at least had time to try and fix it, but the shop misdiagnosed it and then the car blew up. The car gave no codes prior to something going wrong, only afterwards.
I'm not sure exactly what type of power I was making but my best 1/4 mile was 11.5 @ 120MPH on 93 pump gas.
Therefore if you have a rough idle and you have been able to eliminate most of the root causes of the problem, not a bad thing to spend the money to check your injectors, I wish I had been more forceful about this with the shop.
Odd its only a C450 thing, we all share the same injector (256-070-56-00-80) Which looks to be across about 322 different models from CLA250 to AMG GT63S.
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2019
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nothing
It had 55,000 miles when it broke. The other member had 53,000... Mercedes is not saying anything but a tuning company has also seen this happen to other C450's and their injectors failing.
The other member didn't even have any warning, it was from one moment to another. Mine I at least had time to try and fix it, but the shop misdiagnosed it and then the car blew up. The car gave no codes prior to something going wrong, only afterwards.
I'm not sure exactly what type of power I was making but my best 1/4 mile was 11.5 @ 120MPH on 93 pump gas.
Therefore if you have a rough idle and you have been able to eliminate most of the root causes of the problem, not a bad thing to spend the money to check your injectors, I wish I had been more forceful about this with the shop.
The other member didn't even have any warning, it was from one moment to another. Mine I at least had time to try and fix it, but the shop misdiagnosed it and then the car blew up. The car gave no codes prior to something going wrong, only afterwards.
I'm not sure exactly what type of power I was making but my best 1/4 mile was 11.5 @ 120MPH on 93 pump gas.
Therefore if you have a rough idle and you have been able to eliminate most of the root causes of the problem, not a bad thing to spend the money to check your injectors, I wish I had been more forceful about this with the shop.
Member
Joined: Mar 2020
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Acura TL-SH, among others
Not really mechanically savvy but how can an injector "get stuck" and destroy the engine? Fuel injector is a non moving part. I have heard a lot of components that cause non-fixable engine failure like rod bearings, timing chain, serpentine belt getting sucked into engine ... but relative to the engine they all move.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 49
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2016 Mercedes C450
Injectors in general depending on the application can be actuated in many different ways i.e. electrically, pneumatically, hydraulically, magnetically and combinations of.
The injectors react in combination with the throttle body to regulate air vs fuel in your engine for combustion. Therefore an uneven, out of proportion balance between them, can cause your car to either run lean (not enough fuel) or rich (too much fuel) ultimately causing engine failure.
The injectors react in combination with the throttle body to regulate air vs fuel in your engine for combustion. Therefore an uneven, out of proportion balance between them, can cause your car to either run lean (not enough fuel) or rich (too much fuel) ultimately causing engine failure.
Thread Starter
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2016 Mercedes C450
Member
Joined: Dec 2018
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From: Arizona
2016 C450 AMG
Not really mechanically savvy but how can an injector "get stuck" and destroy the engine? Fuel injector is a non moving part. I have heard a lot of components that cause non-fixable engine failure like rod bearings, timing chain, serpentine belt getting sucked into engine ... but relative to the engine they all move.
stuck open = dumping fuel into cylinder and basically hydrolocks it
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2016 c450 amg
Haven't been on the forum in a while but this thread popped up on google. Had the same failure in my c450 with same mileage (~50k). Did you guys have luck fitting a 43 motor? Looking to buy one for the car soon since it's just been sitting at the shop for 2 years now.
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Haven't been on the forum in a while but this thread popped up on google. Had the same failure in my c450 with same mileage (~50k). Did you guys have luck fitting a 43 motor? Looking to buy one for the car soon since it's just been sitting at the shop for 2 years now.
