BenzBoy12

Hey guys, just thought I'd let you see the "opposition", lol. It looks pretty nasty, thats for sure. What do you guys think? Should be a great battle between this, the M3, the C63, and the RS4. All of these cars are simply amazing. This is the IS-F mini-site, go to the gallery for vids:http://www.lexus.com/isf/index.html?=technology

C43AMG

It stands NO chance against the C63.Please don't mention it in the same - sentence,paragraph with the C63 again.

BenzBoy12

Think so? I mean I like the 63 the best out of all of them, but really, the F has the same/similar power, might weigh less, and Lexus claims they designed it with the track in mind. Not tearing down the 63, just trying to see what people think

evanswan

It's Ugly compared to Mercedes, BMW, Audi Styling. Don't get me wrong they are nice cars. I think they are behind a bit on the curve with this one, but only time will tell when all the new race sedans are out.

BenzBoy12

def. true. I think they could have done more with the rear end, personally.

markmam1

yes i dunno bout you guys but those exhaust stacked up like that look ugly

c32used

Lexus has been stealing customers at will when they go after a certain market target so I think beware. Maybe the first version won't due but the second will beat or match there competition.

jtc55

time will tell which compact sport sedan will be on top (my money is on the C63 )

regarding the video, thumbs down on engine and exhaust notes. all i heard on hard acceleration was an annoying buzzzzz

LETO

does the F stand for fugly?

c32used

Its all ones personal opinion but I saw and sat and heard one in person and it is HOT!! I might consider one if the value lowers in a year or two. In my opinion I only like the C63 and the IS-F for personal wants compared to the RS4 or new M3. I bet they will find easy affordable upgrades such as SC and stuff that will make it keep-up or surpass its rivals! Keep in mind this is my personal opinion I am not attacking anyones opinion here at all. Besides Lexus won't build anything unless it intends to compete or try to be the leader in that market.

JDM_SXE-10

I think the C63 styling is the nicest out of the four sedans previously mentioned. From sitting in the cars, I think that the Cs seem to have more rear seat legroom than the ISs also. However, I wouldn't discount the IS-Fs performance at all. It appears to have sufficient power. I have also had much better experiences with Lexus' customer service and reliability than any European manufacturer I've ever dealt with.

The only thing that I find backwards is usually I find the race-tuned version of any car to be nicer looking than it's base models (AMG over regular C, M over regular line, S or RS over regular Audis), but in the IS-F's case, I actually like the body lines of the regular IS350s and IS250s more. I think that the way that the body is flared seems a bit radical. It doesn't flow well. It almost looks like an aftermarket body kit, similar to those cheap ones that people put on their Hondas.

AMGaudioman

Makes sense that lexus would do something similar. After all, this IS a Toyota!

Seriously though, I like it and think it will look great in person. It should also be substantially cheaper than the benz, audi, bimmer, etc.

sanf

its gonna be 55k or so... and with that, i prefer paying 5-7k more for M3 or C63

C63OrNotToC63

I can't imagine this doing well. I really don't know where Lexus expects to fit themselves in the performance market.

Pure Performance - BMW M
Performance w/style - Audi S/RS
Raw power with class and status - AMG
Power with crappy styling? - Lexus F?

I think the IS was a poor choice for Lexus's first try. The market might be larger but there are just too many good competitors out there. I think they'd have been better off starting with a GS-F and combatting the M5 and S6 for their first try. Finally, performance is the last question on Lexus buyers' mind. It's just not something the brand is known for, which will be a tough thing to try and sell all of a sudden. It'll take years of underwhelming F sales before Lexus will be a ligitimate consideration in this market.

egtgrant

Don't forget:

RS6
E55/E63
M5

Same competitors whether Lexus goes compact or mid-size.

Going after the compact market makes sense - larger volume market makes it easier to cover initial R&D costs. Besides, if they can convert younger buyers now, they can create a customer for life, fueling future car sales.

I think this is true of many car makers out there. Changing how their cars are perceived every decade or so attracts new buyers. As long as the changes are viewed as generally positive, loyal owners are unlikely to abandon the brand. 20 years ago, who would have considered Toyota to be a luxury brand at all? Just 5 years ago, who would have thought that Mercedes could build a car that could handle?

I'm not saying that the Lexus is going to smoke any of the competitors in a pure performance test... I agree that stat for stat, one of the other cars will probably have superior numbers. On the other hand, there's no concensus dominant vehicle in the group for every performance and luxury category. Each vehicle has different aspects in which it excels. As for pure all around performance, my feeling is that the driver behind the wheel has more to do with it than which of these four cars that driver chooses.

90%+ of the buyers out there will never see the performance limits of these cars until they try to avoid an accident, anyways.

In N. San Diego County, the Merc, BMW, and Audi dealers have a crappy reputation (I have countless stories of rip-offs and three-day oil changes with my Audi, my friends and family can support that claim for the other makes). My wife drives a Lexus. There is absolutely no comparison between the dealers - Lexus is awesome.

If I was Merc, Audi, BMW... I'd be very worried about my luxury-performance market 5 years from now.

All that said, my money (literally - deposit) is on the C63. In my mind, that engine note alone is worth dealer hassles, lesser build quality (than Lexus) and lesser interiors (than Audi). Plus, I'm realistic about my performance needs. I need a car I can haul around people in, but I still want to blast down the freeways. Track days - probably 1 or 2 over the life of the car. As such, high power is more important to me than supreme handling. Stop light races, passing lanes, and freeway on-ramps are where I want my car to shine.

BenzBoy12

Actually, I heard that they are working on a GS-F, with a detuned V10 from their upcoming supercar (based off F1 engine, like BMW), and should have 500+ hp. Might have more torque than M but not sure. Lexus def. will not settle for 2nd. Toyota is trying to own the world market. Already do kinda.

ProjectC55

I own an MB AMG and have owned Toyotas and I have to say that Toyota-Lexus have always put out excellent products. Especially the luxury division(Lexus).

I think the IS-F will be a very good look and will have excellent performance #'s vs the the other marques. Will also have a nice tuning market I bet as well.

bensitto

I agree the ISF looks like a great car for Lexus especially cause they haven't really had anything to compete with the AMG. But I think if they introduced this when the C32 or C55's came out it would be something to consider. BUT can't compare it to the C63. HP and Torque crush all the opponents! bye bye BMW & Audi.

user 76208202

Sorry but C class has no "status".....there will be a crap load of c350s that have the same body kit. most people will think the c63 is just another C class. Performance for the BMW? the thing is a fat girl! It's slowww....no low end power, it's a Honda with a BMW badge. I will admit that the C class will beat the M3, RS4, IS-F in a straight line race....but thats not all that matters. I am debating if i'm going to get the C or the M, at this point the crappy cheap interior of the C makes me wana puke. I don't understand how anyone can pay 70k+ for a crappy interior....I would take the IS-F if i was on a budget. If you put a good 4-5k into the IS it will burn a stock C63.

iku

yes.. and if u put 4-5k into the c, it'll probably dust the is f too.. pointless to compare mod vs stock

TopGun32

let's be honest..

Lexus does not have that much aftermarket support.. the IS350 is not a highly tuned car and even IS350 owners are really jumping to the 335i.

I would say the IS300 was far more tuned, due to its I-6.

I know the IS350 has as supercharger kit, but you very seldom will run accross one and TRD has not developed one.. (well not to my knowledge)

The IS -F will be the same way. Most lexus owners only add an intake or exhaust, change tires or remove weight. Everytime I search youtube for IS350 1/4 passes, I don't see nothing out of the ordinary.

M and AMG crowd are the opposite. You probably won't find one stock to factory specs. The C63 is ripe for modding and it won't cost that much. (ECU tune about $1k and probably some intake or exhaust mod =$1k).. and you have atleast 500hp

I agree on the crappy interior, but the M3 is not too far behind on that front as well.

The best interior is the Audi (as usual).

Lexus will be reliable and will have *****, but it will take serious $$ to tune to beat the M or AMG.

user 76208202

I agree on all your points but one. I really do think the aftermarket JDM companies will jump on the IS-F. The IS has not been a hit becuase it's kina inbetween a luxury car and a sports car. The IS-F has set it's mark as a Sports Sedan and i bet companies like GReddy, H.K.S..etc will jump on this thing. I do agree that the C63 will be alot easier to tune becuase the car comes locked up from factory.....but the M? ehhhh. It's so heavy. I mean spec vs spec the IS-F looks better. Don't get me wrong the M will be a BEAST with a supercharger but not many people will be doing that. All in all C63 will own all 3, RS-4/IS-F will have the best interior and the M to me is juse a . I still like the e46 more.



BTW i will paypal $20 to the first C63 owner who flaires out the rear fenders of the C.

http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Images/...7c2033_085.jpg

egtgrant

I couldn't agree more about the status of the tuner market for Lexus (today).

Personally, I think this is a simple function of supply and demand. Today, there is little demand. Most Lexus owners aren't car tuning/driving enthusiasts. The ones that are enthusiasts probably have another non-Lexus car that they use for tuning/racing with.

Having spent some time (at least trolling) on the forums for Lexus, Audi, and Merc, there simply isn't the same enthusiast base for the Japanese mark. I think a lot of this has to do with the models available - Lexus has never really had a 'high-performance' model before. I think it is the high-performance models that stir more emotion and enthusiasm in the buyers. By their nature, buyers of high performance cars are going to be receptive to upgrades – “Higher performance at a small incremental cost… Sign me up!!” After all, they’ve already proven willing to shell out substantially more money for performance in buying the car in the first place.

I think that if you were to look at the ratio of stock vs modded non-AMG-Mercs or non-M-Bimmers, the ratio would be much higher (more stock cars) than for the AMG/M versions (more modded cars). Taking this further, I would guess that this ratio would be even higher on those models that don't have an AMG/M variant. I think these high performance cars help to establish the aftermarket for the entire brands and specifically the platforms on which the high-performance models are based. These cars are necessary for the tuners to be interested in the brands, same as the enthusiasts.

These high performance versions of the cars also cause potential buyers to look at the lesser models differently. Instead of viewing the lesser models as mere ‘luxury compact sedans’, they are now look at them as the ‘kid brother’ to the high performance version. At that point, they begin to wonder how to close the gap with the help of the aftermarket tuners.

Wah La… Aftermarket!

I think we’ll begin to see more aftermarket tuners developing products for Lexus after the release of the IS-F, GS-F, and whatever other high performance variants come down the line. The IS-F, regardless of its current capability to de-throne, or even run with, its German rivals, will inspire its owners to begin to tweak it and probably serve as a catalyst for the fledgling Lexus aftermarket.

vraa

The IS car for American LeMans got pulled. A few months later IS-F pretty much got 'confirmed'

Lexus is only making 4500 IS-F's. I'm pretty sure they are pretty serious about this.

Rumor has it they are also coming out with a V10 LF-A to compete directly with the Ferrari F430.

c32used

Like I stated before II am a huge Lexus fan and owned 3 Lexus prior to jumping ship. I bought the C32 cause it was the most sensible route but it grew on me. I really do like the IS-F but feels after owning my C32 for so long I if money was no object would pick either the C63 or the RS4. The Lexus is HOT but not enough to make me rebuy it. I do love the quality but as any perfermance minded car once you start messing with what the factory has spent countless hours,days or months and years testing to bring out a good for the public product it changes the quality of the best made cars. The RS4, C63 AND NEW M3 are purpose built and not only power in mind but performance also. This is basically Lexus doing as they do best trying to take market shares of the major performance sedans like thet are doing with the ES,GS and LS. Just like politics its all a game to all the manufacturers with the ultimate goal !!MONEY!!. Its all personal preference at the end....but the real car entutiast will pay high if they have to to get the right combination that has worked for them all these years. The IS-F will do very well but it will not out sell the C63 or M3 or RS4 in their market. Oh God let me stop talking...Guys at the end its personal preference and no matter what car enters the market it won't change much. Even the Bugatti Veyron doesn't worry the true exotic Ferrari or Porsche manufacturers it helps it by getting them to increase power and performance.