What to think of Top Gear's review of C63 VS M3 Vs Rs4
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well put sir...
Fact is, people can't drive their cars like F&F Tokyo Drift style... Unless you go out to a track, you don't really need to unleash car's full potential other then braking.
I donno bout other guys but I'll like to have C63 ova M3 or RS4 plez.
Mo powah = Mo fun... Period..
Fact is, people can't drive their cars like F&F Tokyo Drift style... Unless you go out to a track, you don't really need to unleash car's full potential other then braking.
I donno bout other guys but I'll like to have C63 ova M3 or RS4 plez.
Mo powah = Mo fun... Period..
Last edited by Fifth Ring; Dec 26, 2007 at 11:18 AM.
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That's what days at the track teach you. You are only using a tiny fraction of a performance car's potential grip on exit ramps. And if you are at the limit of adhesion, you're putting a lot at risk. Exit ramps and public roads do not have run-off areas or tire barriers.
Why do I need 350HP? For me, it's just the ability to jump into the passing lane and blast past a line of slow-movers literally in a blink of an eye. I definitely use 100% of the car's HP (for fun and advantage), and in an emergency I'll certainly use 100% of the car's braking. But I do not seem many, if any, occasions when I'll use 100% of the car's handling.
Why do I need 350HP? For me, it's just the ability to jump into the passing lane and blast past a line of slow-movers literally in a blink of an eye. I definitely use 100% of the car's HP (for fun and advantage), and in an emergency I'll certainly use 100% of the car's braking. But I do not seem many, if any, occasions when I'll use 100% of the car's handling.
So if 350HP is sufficent to do all that why would you need a C63? And what would be wrong with a 414HP M3?
The point is: you don't use or need all that power either. Handling is as important as power (if not more so). Mushy cars don't inspire the confidence necessary to use the power.
M3s have been very balanced in that regard. I still think my E46 M3 was the closest I've come to the perfectly balanced vehicle.
Last edited by chiphomme; Dec 26, 2007 at 12:01 PM.
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So if 350HP is sufficent to do all that why would you need a C63?
The point is: you don't use or need all that power either. Handling is as important as power (if not more so). Mushy cars don't inspire the confidence necessary to use the power.
M3s have been very balanced in that regard. I still think my E46 M3 is the closest I've coming to the perfectly balanced vehicle.
The point is: you don't use or need all that power either. Handling is as important as power (if not more so). Mushy cars don't inspire the confidence necessary to use the power.
M3s have been very balanced in that regard. I still think my E46 M3 is the closest I've coming to the perfectly balanced vehicle.
The handling gap between a C63 (or even a C32/C55) and an M3 is not going to come into play in everyday driving. At the point where handling balance of an M3 versus any sports sedan is making a difference on public roads, you're probably being naughty and/or crazy.
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There's a lot of room between "mushy" and M3- level handling. I would not consider any AMG (nor any non-SUV Mercedes) to be mushy.
The handling gap between a C63 (or even a C32/C55) and an M3 is not going to come into play in everyday driving. At the point where handling balance of an M3 versus any sports sedan is making a difference on public roads, you're probably being naughty and/or crazy.
The handling gap between a C63 (or even a C32/C55) and an M3 is not going to come into play in everyday driving. At the point where handling balance of an M3 versus any sports sedan is making a difference on public roads, you're probably being naughty and/or crazy.
I don't know about that. I had a CLS55 and it was a powerful lumbering car.
I loved it for what it was, a great cruiser, not the best handling.
And if youre not going to "naughty or crazy" why buy an AMG or M?
A C350 or 330i will do a decent job.
I love AMG power over M power but prefer driving Bimmers (they are more fun). And frankly the straight line performance of both is stellar. So unless you're in need of bragging rights they'll both get you around 99.9% of traffic without a problem.
And the main reason I went back to Mercedes was that the CLK63 Black is an excellent handling car. I will reserve final judgement on the C63 until I drive one but these initial reviews aren't too reassuring.
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If you don't track it, then why bother buying the AMG? Red light races? Please.
PS: Top Gear obviously likes to tell an entertaining tale, and that skews the reviews. Jeremy needed the C63 to be a crazy road-monster, because that made for fun TV. I'm sure it's well controlled. I'll wait until a few car mags review these things. Keep in mind that different cars play differently on different tracks.
PS: Top Gear obviously likes to tell an entertaining tale, and that skews the reviews. Jeremy needed the C63 to be a crazy road-monster, because that made for fun TV. I'm sure it's well controlled. I'll wait until a few car mags review these things. Keep in mind that different cars play differently on different tracks.
I have read all the reviews of the C63 and some say its the best thing since sliced bread and others say its not controlled. When it comes to the actually numbers a lap time tels the entire story because a controlled car is easier to drive quickly and flows through a corner where a out of control rocket is to busy going sideways and plowing on.
The C63 "missed the apex" on several corners because the car would not turn. So many say go ahead and slow down and then power out. Fine.... but I have done that at almost every corner with every amg and I tell you that car on your bumper is ready to push you out of the way the minute u lag into a braking zone.
I pray the car is a M3 equal for once but I simply fear it is not. And this was the insanely priced performance package car. Lets see the regular car. The regular car should be an M3 and the PP car should be better than an M3. No AMG asks for 8k to get a car that actually is semi controlled. That is very annoying.
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I have to disagree. Every test has shown the C63 to be markedly slower than an M3 on any track. The video footage showed that the car was all over the place and there is no getting away from that fact.
I have read all the reviews of the C63 and some say its the best thing since sliced bread and others say its not controlled. When it comes to the actually numbers a lap time tels the entire story because a controlled car is easier to drive quickly and flows through a corner where a out of control rocket is to busy going sideways and plowing on.
The C63 "missed the apex" on several corners because the car would not turn. So many say go ahead and slow down and then power out. Fine.... but I have done that at almost every corner with every amg and I tell you that car on your bumper is ready to push you out of the way the minute u lag into a braking zone.
I pray the car is a M3 equal for once but I simply fear it is not. And this was the insanely priced performance package car. Lets see the regular car. The regular car should be an M3 and the PP car should be better than an M3. No AMG asks for 8k to get a car that actually is semi controlled. That is very annoying.
I have read all the reviews of the C63 and some say its the best thing since sliced bread and others say its not controlled. When it comes to the actually numbers a lap time tels the entire story because a controlled car is easier to drive quickly and flows through a corner where a out of control rocket is to busy going sideways and plowing on.
The C63 "missed the apex" on several corners because the car would not turn. So many say go ahead and slow down and then power out. Fine.... but I have done that at almost every corner with every amg and I tell you that car on your bumper is ready to push you out of the way the minute u lag into a braking zone.
I pray the car is a M3 equal for once but I simply fear it is not. And this was the insanely priced performance package car. Lets see the regular car. The regular car should be an M3 and the PP car should be better than an M3. No AMG asks for 8k to get a car that actually is semi controlled. That is very annoying.
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I feel like I've been proofed at a bar by a 14 year old bouncer!
If so few people want to take their car to a real track, then why do people fret about tests done on these tracks?
For legal street use, there is NOTHING you can do in a C63 that you cannot also do in a C350.
If so few people want to take their car to a real track, then why do people fret about tests done on these tracks?
For legal street use, there is NOTHING you can do in a C63 that you cannot also do in a C350.
So I go to the track. At the track it is a totally different ball of wax. A track car is not a street car and the inverse as well. So we all say get a track car! Good idea but some people dont want an extra car, dont have space for it, dont want to spend the money on one etc. So they are left with having one car for both situations. I will be the first to admit a track car is a terrible street car and a great street car is a terrible track car. Anyhting short of a GT3RS should be a street car capable of going quickly.
I just wish MB could make a car that equaled BMW for once. The M3 rides better than the MB in stock form (the P30 car will ride even worse than a stock car) yet it still handles pretty poorly.
I see two camps forming here. Some people will always not care about handling because its not their cup of tea. Some will. You cant get an agreement from the two camps really because you have different core ideas of what a car should be.
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reading through the replies, it's amusing that so many MB "wh0res" want the C63 for "stoplight drag races" against rice civics or mustangs. LOL. what a waste. 
Track time record was an OBJECTIVE test. What the journalists say, those are subjective and each person will think of the car in different ways. But to conviniently 'dismiss' the track time and claim the C63 is superior to the M3 b/c owners "never track these cars anyway", is just f#cked up.
Yes the C63 was faster in their acceleration test, but guess what, C63 has 50-60 more HP!! 6.2L vs 4.0L!! Which makes the 5 seconds slower lap time just outright asinine, with that much extra power.
I really hoped the C63 would annihilate the M3 in every performance category, for once.. but MB failed miserably. Just wait til the new M3 CSL comes out.. game over
Track time record was an OBJECTIVE test. What the journalists say, those are subjective and each person will think of the car in different ways. But to conviniently 'dismiss' the track time and claim the C63 is superior to the M3 b/c owners "never track these cars anyway", is just f#cked up.
Yes the C63 was faster in their acceleration test, but guess what, C63 has 50-60 more HP!! 6.2L vs 4.0L!! Which makes the 5 seconds slower lap time just outright asinine, with that much extra power.
I really hoped the C63 would annihilate the M3 in every performance category, for once.. but MB failed miserably. Just wait til the new M3 CSL comes out.. game over
Last edited by ProV1; Dec 26, 2007 at 01:52 PM.
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That's what days at the track teach you. You are only using a tiny fraction of a performance car's potential grip on exit ramps. And if you are at the limit of adhesion, you're putting a lot at risk. Exit ramps and public roads do not have run-off areas or tire barriers.
Why do I need 350HP? For me, it's just the ability to jump into the passing lane and blast past a line of slow-movers literally in a blink of an eye. I definitely use 100% of the car's HP (for fun and advantage), and in an emergency I'll certainly use 100% of the car's braking. But I do not seem many, if any, occasions when I'll use 100% of the car's handling.
Why do I need 350HP? For me, it's just the ability to jump into the passing lane and blast past a line of slow-movers literally in a blink of an eye. I definitely use 100% of the car's HP (for fun and advantage), and in an emergency I'll certainly use 100% of the car's braking. But I do not seem many, if any, occasions when I'll use 100% of the car's handling.
The most freakish driving on the streets still is 1/3rd lower than a track event. You will destroy parts far quicker at the track than on the worst canyon run. You just dont have the ability to push a car that last 2/10ths on the street.
Tires at the track are GONE in a day with a street car IF you drive the car to the max. I know everyone says no no thats not true. It all comes down to how hard you push. If street tires are not chunking and falling apart you are not working the car hard enough. A good street tire should hold together for a day but it wont be the same after that. It will be pretty worn down after 2 hrs of track use.
But the best test for a cars stability is to push it to the limit and see how it does. I just think the M3 is that much more stable. The fact that its tires lated better shows it was not trying to over work the rear tires by being tail happy. Yes Jeremy drifted the heck out of the car and that caused the tire to fail BUT he drifts every car he gets and you have never seen that happen before.
I have destroyed so many tires on AMG cars at the track but I have NEVER seen a cord on a rear tire. That was shocking. Fronts fall apart really quickly normally.
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reading through the replies, it's amusing that so many MB "wh0res" want the C63 for "stoplight drag races" against rice civics or mustangs. LOL. what a waste.
Track time record was an OBJECTIVE test. What the journalists say, those are subjective and each person will think of the car in different ways. But to conviniently 'dismiss' the track time and claim the C63 is superior to the M3 b/c owners "never track these cars anyway", is just f#cked up.
Yes the C63 was faster in their acceleration test, but guess what, C63 has 50-60 more HP!! 6.2L vs 4.0L!! Which makes the 5 seconds slower lap time just outright asinine, with that much extra power.
I really hoped the C63 would annihilate the M3 in every performance category, for once.. but MB failed miserably. Just wait til the new M3 CSL comes out.. game over
Track time record was an OBJECTIVE test. What the journalists say, those are subjective and each person will think of the car in different ways. But to conviniently 'dismiss' the track time and claim the C63 is superior to the M3 b/c owners "never track these cars anyway", is just f#cked up.
Yes the C63 was faster in their acceleration test, but guess what, C63 has 50-60 more HP!! 6.2L vs 4.0L!! Which makes the 5 seconds slower lap time just outright asinine, with that much extra power.
I really hoped the C63 would annihilate the M3 in every performance category, for once.. but MB failed miserably. Just wait til the new M3 CSL comes out.. game over
I to dont care if my car launches well or has a bucket of torque at 1800 rpm. I think thats all boring. I dont want to drag race people and I laugh at people who want to race me. Had GTO try to taunt me yesterday in my SL55 as I went to pick up some more food at Ralphs. I just shook my head and tucked in behind him to make a left turn. Go find something real to do on Christmas day buddy.
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what you boys forget to take into consideration is that the c63 does not have the same ride as the c55. the c55 was a better daily driver with superior ride quality. however, in an attempt to catch up to m3, they have sacrificed the ride quality to make a better handling car. in this respect they have not only failed to make it a better handling car, but also the essence of the AMG, while the m3 has narrowed the gap due to the adjustable suspension. Due to the fact that you can adjust the hardness it makes both a great daily driver because you can have it on soft and a great track car since you can stiffen it up. i'm sure many of you will be surprised with the difference it makes. so now the m3 has come closer to what the C55 used to offer, but at the same time has increased it current competitive advantage, that is being a better ALL around Performance Sedan.
however, i think that these car are going to be so close to each other that it will really come down to preference. All three are superb saloons.
however, i think that these car are going to be so close to each other that it will really come down to preference. All three are superb saloons.
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I think it comes down to two opposing camps.
-Mercedes people think the handling is close enough that the power should be the deciding factor.
-And the BMW people think the power is close enough that the handling should be the decider.
-Mercedes people think the handling is close enough that the power should be the deciding factor.
-And the BMW people think the power is close enough that the handling should be the decider.
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reading through the replies, it's amusing that so many MB "wh0res" want the C63 for "stoplight drag races" against rice civics or mustangs. LOL. what a waste.
Track time record was an OBJECTIVE test. What the journalists say, those are subjective and each person will think of the car in different ways. But to conviniently 'dismiss' the track time and claim the C63 is superior to the M3 b/c owners "never track these cars anyway", is just f#cked up.
Track time record was an OBJECTIVE test. What the journalists say, those are subjective and each person will think of the car in different ways. But to conviniently 'dismiss' the track time and claim the C63 is superior to the M3 b/c owners "never track these cars anyway", is just f#cked up.
But people do it all the time though. I'm sure you have done it.
Call it a waste but people do that with nice cars everyday...
Let's face it.. Most people uses these track times / performance facts to just bragg and ***** about their cars.. "Yea man, my M3 handles soo much better" "But mine is faster in straight line" blah blaah blahh..
Who really gives a crap when you are driving on the street? I sure don't. Some of you may do and I respect that.
I don't think C63 is superior to M3.. I didn't think C55 was superior to E46 M3.
However, for everyday purpose / driving, C55 was the right choice for me..
Jst looking at the facts from the reviews, I think C63 will do just fine for my needs. That's all...
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I guess I must be one of those red light to red light rice racers. I race from one light to the next and having that huge torque will get the job done most of the time. What you track guys need to do is lighten up...just because some people like me use it for a different purpose doesn't mean it's bad or a waste. People who thinks AMGs are only for the track needs to open up their eyes. Why? Because we all know AMG cars are pigs around the track...so live with it instead of implying something else. If I can buy one for the red lights, let it be. The track is not for the majority of people....and certainly not for me.
Last edited by diamondblak05; Dec 26, 2007 at 09:43 PM.
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The C55 was the only C-AMG car that had improved significantly over it's predecessors to really challenge the M3 of its time (E46) on a track with regards to laptimes. Unfortunately, nobody really knew about this or recognized this because the C55 still lost comparison tests because it still lacked the special "feel" and didn't involve the driver as well as the E46 M3 did. In other words, it still isolated the driver a bit in the name of comfort and daily driveability. Many people like yourself just assumed the C55 sucked on a track when the handling numbers and laptimes suggested otherwise.
Now it seems the performance gap between the C63 and E92 M3 has widened yet again when it comes to laptimes, despite MB/AMG's efforts to make the car "feel" more involving to drive while losing out on comfort too. I'm sure the C63 handles much better than the C55, but the new M3 has raised it's game even MORE.
Last edited by PC Valkyrie; Dec 26, 2007 at 10:47 PM.
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reading through the replies, it's amusing that so many MB "wh0res" want the C63 for "stoplight drag races" against rice civics or mustangs. LOL. what a waste.
Track time record was an OBJECTIVE test. What the journalists say, those are subjective and each person will think of the car in different ways. But to conviniently 'dismiss' the track time and claim the C63 is superior to the M3 b/c owners "never track these cars anyway", is just f#cked up.
Yes the C63 was faster in their acceleration test, but guess what, C63 has 50-60 more HP!! 6.2L vs 4.0L!! Which makes the 5 seconds slower lap time just outright asinine, with that much extra power.
I really hoped the C63 would annihilate the M3 in every performance category, for once.. but MB failed miserably. Just wait til the new M3 CSL comes out.. game over
Track time record was an OBJECTIVE test. What the journalists say, those are subjective and each person will think of the car in different ways. But to conviniently 'dismiss' the track time and claim the C63 is superior to the M3 b/c owners "never track these cars anyway", is just f#cked up.
Yes the C63 was faster in their acceleration test, but guess what, C63 has 50-60 more HP!! 6.2L vs 4.0L!! Which makes the 5 seconds slower lap time just outright asinine, with that much extra power.
I really hoped the C63 would annihilate the M3 in every performance category, for once.. but MB failed miserably. Just wait til the new M3 CSL comes out.. game over
u drive the spectacular trackster M3 and i'll drive the miserably failed C63.
but don't let me catch u at a stoplight b/c i'll show u what a miserably failed car can do
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seriously?? go drive your honda around the block for a lil bit?
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Agree that the C63 has way more good selling points over having a faster track time. But a stock M will NEVER beat a stock C63 on the highway as you all already know... 
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If you line up next to me ill just pull away normally while you launch and look like a child in your AMG... a child with something to prove....
