Is TCU tuning a myth?
12-23-2008, 08:03 PM
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C55,SL55,C63
Is TCU tuning a myth?
Ok, I was talking to RENNtech today. I asked them about TCU tuning for my car. Anyway we got into a long discussion on TCU tuning for the C63 (I dont even have a C63
) I stood there listening and this is what was said. Remember not what I said but what I was told...
In order to do a TCU tune to on the 7speed Mercedes gear box you would have to ship the tuner your transmission as the TCU is located inside the valve body of the transmission(someone confirm Please?). When you tune an ECU you can adjust some controls and shift points from the ECU but its not TCU tuning. Any tuning done through the ECU is ECU tuning....
Do I know any of this to be true? IDK???
I asked him if he can make some adjustment in my shift points? I was told my shift points were adjusted when my car got its first tune. (This was true as I was making power at higher RPM's and that came with a standard tune.) After the holidays he said he will take a look and see if i got any room to play with.
Has anyone compared different companies tunes vs each other? I know its no big secret that shift parameters can be tweaked from an ECU tune.
) I stood there listening and this is what was said. Remember not what I said but what I was told...In order to do a TCU tune to on the 7speed Mercedes gear box you would have to ship the tuner your transmission as the TCU is located inside the valve body of the transmission(someone confirm Please?). When you tune an ECU you can adjust some controls and shift points from the ECU but its not TCU tuning. Any tuning done through the ECU is ECU tuning....
Do I know any of this to be true? IDK???
I asked him if he can make some adjustment in my shift points? I was told my shift points were adjusted when my car got its first tune. (This was true as I was making power at higher RPM's and that came with a standard tune.) After the holidays he said he will take a look and see if i got any room to play with.
Has anyone compared different companies tunes vs each other? I know its no big secret that shift parameters can be tweaked from an ECU tune.
12-23-2008, 09:29 PM
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'09 C63 AMG
That is absolutely 100% incorrect.
The TCU componentry located inside a 7A is a bunch of solenoids, that's all. All TCU functions are controlled via the ECU. In the future as control units become more and more sophisticated we'll see more merged ECU/TCUs.
Via the ECU we control TCU functions such as increases in line pressure, TCU only tq management, increased stall converter speed, raised shift points, consistant shift points, quicker up/downshifts, etc.
Those are not ECU functions.
Ask anyone with our TCU tuning on a 7A what the shifts feel like v stock and see what they say. I'm sure some of our customers that previously were using someone else's ECU only tuning will chime in as well.
There are 2 reasons for someone to tell you that hooley, 1) They don't have a clue. 2) They don't have the ability to fully access all tables on a ECU/TCU.
The TCU componentry located inside a 7A is a bunch of solenoids, that's all. All TCU functions are controlled via the ECU. In the future as control units become more and more sophisticated we'll see more merged ECU/TCUs.
Via the ECU we control TCU functions such as increases in line pressure, TCU only tq management, increased stall converter speed, raised shift points, consistant shift points, quicker up/downshifts, etc.
Those are not ECU functions.
Ask anyone with our TCU tuning on a 7A what the shifts feel like v stock and see what they say. I'm sure some of our customers that previously were using someone else's ECU only tuning will chime in as well.
There are 2 reasons for someone to tell you that hooley, 1) They don't have a clue. 2) They don't have the ability to fully access all tables on a ECU/TCU.
Last edited by MHP; 12-23-2008 at 09:36 PM.
12-23-2008, 10:43 PM
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C55,SL55,C63
That is absolutely 100% incorrect.
The TCU componentry located inside a 7A is a bunch of solenoids, that's all. All TCU functions are controlled via the ECU. In the future as control units become more and more sophisticated we'll see more merged ECU/TCUs.
Via the ECU we control TCU functions such as increases in line pressure, TCU only tq management, increased stall converter speed, raised shift points, consistant shift points, quicker up/downshifts, etc.
Those are not ECU functions.
Ask anyone with our TCU tuning on a 7A what the shifts feel like v stock and see what they say. I'm sure some of our customers that previously were using someone else's ECU only tuning will chime in as well.
There are 2 reasons for someone to tell you that hooley, 1) They don't have a clue. 2) They don't have the ability to fully access all tables on a ECU/TCU.
The TCU componentry located inside a 7A is a bunch of solenoids, that's all. All TCU functions are controlled via the ECU. In the future as control units become more and more sophisticated we'll see more merged ECU/TCUs.
Via the ECU we control TCU functions such as increases in line pressure, TCU only tq management, increased stall converter speed, raised shift points, consistant shift points, quicker up/downshifts, etc.
Those are not ECU functions.
Ask anyone with our TCU tuning on a 7A what the shifts feel like v stock and see what they say. I'm sure some of our customers that previously were using someone else's ECU only tuning will chime in as well.
There are 2 reasons for someone to tell you that hooley, 1) They don't have a clue. 2) They don't have the ability to fully access all tables on a ECU/TCU.
Deff make some good points and makes scene to me. I was thinking it only makes sense to control the TCU from the ECU. Question: trans shifts at 100 milliseconds (I think) you can make that faster? If so thats insane
Could you really feel something faster than that? Question 2: want to hook us C55 guys up? I think what your going for the C63 guys is making all us other AMG guys jealous. Plus I got a long list of parts the C55 needs that no one makes.
Last edited by hooleyboy; 12-23-2008 at 10:45 PM.
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12-23-2008, 11:54 PM
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I run the MHP ECU and TCU tune in my car, it is not a myth. I was running the Powerchip ECU tune and switched over to the MHP tune a couple months ago. I have not been able to put more than about 400 miles on the car since the tune, but I can tell you there is a night and day difference. If you don't want to take my word for it just keep your eyes posted to this forum in about 3-4 weeks, I am shipping my car out to southern California to run a track day at Willow Springs Raceway, there are going to be several other modded CLK Black Series' out there, I am going to let a couple of them drive my car and I will let them tell you for themselves in their own words what they feel. What is most noticable to me is the lag time between shifts is shorter and it hit the gears firmer/harder. If I am driving around town in M mode I can actually chip my tires between first and second gears sometimes, and it is literally neck snapping shifts in M, it never did that stock or with the Powerchip tune.
12-24-2008, 12:26 AM
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2009 C63 Black on Black
jrcart was the 1st
I run the MHP ECU and TCU tune in my car, it is not a myth. I was running the Powerchip ECU tune and switched over to the MHP tune a couple months ago. I have not been able to put more than about 400 miles on the car since the tune, but I can tell you there is a night and day difference. If you don't want to take my word for it just keep your eyes posted to this forum in about 3-4 weeks, I am shipping my car out to southern California to run a track day at Willow Springs Raceway, there are going to be several other modded CLK Black Series' out there, I am going to let a couple of them drive my car and I will let them tell you for themselves in their own words what they feel. What is most noticable to me is the lag time between shifts is shorter and it hit the gears firmer/harder. If I am driving around town in M mode I can actually chip my tires between first and second gears sometimes, and it is literally neck snapping shifts in M, it never did that stock or with the Powerchip tune.
UNleash the power!!!
Happy Holidays & be safe ( thank God you and your ride are ok!)
C63 is just days away
12-24-2008, 02:06 AM
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ill make this as fast as i can i have to go to sleep long day today for me and longday tomrrow, the tcu tune done by MHP is no wher near stock or a MYTH, i think renntech said that to you b/c they cant doit, i have the mhp tcu and its out of this world. if your a real driver and love your car you need this tune.
everyone have a happy and healthy xmas to you and your familys.
everyone have a happy and healthy xmas to you and your familys.
12-24-2008, 02:51 AM
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12-24-2008, 03:11 AM
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'09 C63 AMG
Deff make some good points and makes scene to me. I was thinking it only makes sense to control the TCU from the ECU. Question: trans shifts at 100 milliseconds (I think) you can make that faster? If so thats insane Could you really feel something faster than that? Question 2: want to hook us C55 guys up? I think what your going for the C63 guys is making all us other AMG guys jealous. Plus I got a long list of parts the C55 needs that no one makes.
Could you really feel something faster than that? Question 2: want to hook us C55 guys up? I think what your going for the C63 guys is making all us other AMG guys jealous. Plus I got a long list of parts the C55 needs that no one makes.Only the MCT in the SL63 shifts at 100 milliseconds (Lexus 8A does in Manual mode, we just tuned the first ever Lexus two days ago btw), BMW SMG for E60/63s does it in 65 milliseconds. We can reduce shift time in those trannys by 25-40% depending on application.
The stock 7A shifts nowhere near that quickly.
As for SOTP feel, I'm not sure everyone could feel the difference between say 70 milliseconds and 100, but it would show up at the track.
12-24-2008, 03:14 AM
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'09 C63 AMG
If anyone's going to the HRP track rental on Jan 24th I'll toss you my keys to make a pass or just drive around on the street. It will take all of ten seconds for anyone to realize the difference between a MHP tuned TCU and a stocker or even someone else's ECU only tuning.
I'll also have the car at the MIR rental in March.
Ape, you just need to drive 100 miles North to Columbus.
Thanks
I'll also have the car at the MIR rental in March.
Ape, you just need to drive 100 miles North to Columbus.
Thanks
12-24-2008, 05:55 AM
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somethings better left unsaid ...
12-24-2008, 06:39 AM
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The MHP tune *definitely* affects the shifting characteristics of the C63. I've had it for about 6 weeks now and am quite impressed at the difference between stock "S" and "M" mode versus MHP tuned modes. I have to assume that the TCU in the C63 controls the shifting characteristics of the car. As such, I can't reach any other conclusion but that my TCU has been tuned. Whether this was directly (actually modifying the physical TCU hardware) or indirectly (some other chip controlling the TCU) doesn't matter to me. Truth be told, I never assumed that the MHP tune would be modifying two separate control units. I've always thought the MHP TCU tune was a modification of the chip (call it an ECU?) sent in to do engine tuning as well; MHP, I guess you could say, does more mod'ing to the software of the chip than others offer. It made sense to me to alter the shifting characteristics of the car ("M" mode stock is actually pretty frustratingly unresponsive in retrospect) to unleash the power being added by the ECU mod.
I guess some highly technical people might get all worked up about using the words "TCU tune." But, again, what's undeniable is that MHP can make your car shift better.
I guess some highly technical people might get all worked up about using the words "TCU tune." But, again, what's undeniable is that MHP can make your car shift better.
12-24-2008, 11:09 AM
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Assorted Euro Trash
So why are places advertising removing a transmission besides not knowing what they are talking about...it has to be coming from somewhere???
12-24-2008, 03:48 PM
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
It's very strange that RennTech is saying or implying that because they've been tuning TCUs for the 5-speed transmission (55 engine Kompressor and non-Kompressor models as well as all the 65 models) for at least the last 6 years. They only don't do TCUs on the 7-Speed tranny associated with the 63 models. So again, I'm not sure why their implying now that it's a myth 
Did you talk to a salesman or one of the tech guys? Sometimes there's descrepencies between them
Did you talk to a salesman or one of the tech guys? Sometimes there's descrepencies between them
12-24-2008, 04:25 PM
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'09 C63 AMG
No we don't need the car to flash either unit regardless if it's a combined or seperate ECU/TCU.
Thanks
Andy
12-24-2008, 04:27 PM
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'09 C63 AMG
Do you have a link to any of these ads, I'd like to see what they're saying?
Thanks
12-24-2008, 04:28 PM
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It's very strange that RennTech is saying or implying that because they've been tuning TCUs for the 5-speed transmission (55 engine Kompressor and non-Kompressor models as well as all the 65 models) for at least the last 6 years. They only don't do TCUs on the 7-Speed tranny associated with the 63 models. So again, I'm not sure why their implying now that it's a myth
Did you talk to a salesman or one of the tech guys? Sometimes there's descrepencies between them
Did you talk to a salesman or one of the tech guys? Sometimes there's descrepencies between them
12-24-2008, 09:52 PM
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997.2 Turbo
Hey Andy,
I understand that you can increase the shift time of the 63 but what about the shift response time? I noticed when I drove the C63 in M mode there was a significant delay from the time I pulled the paddle to the time the car actually shifted. Just like the shift lag found in the earlier version of the M-DCT transmission on the E92 M3. The actual shift speed is already great stock but i would like to have near instantaneous shift response times.
Thanks and Merry Christmas!!!
I understand that you can increase the shift time of the 63 but what about the shift response time? I noticed when I drove the C63 in M mode there was a significant delay from the time I pulled the paddle to the time the car actually shifted. Just like the shift lag found in the earlier version of the M-DCT transmission on the E92 M3. The actual shift speed is already great stock but i would like to have near instantaneous shift response times.
Thanks and Merry Christmas!!!
