AMG 6.3 high-flow airbox demystified
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 205
Likes: 3
From: Philippines
08 C63, 07 ML63, 92 500E, 70 300SEL 6.3, 63 220 SEB Conv. Sold 02 G500, 97 E50,92 C280,71 280SE 4.5
Here are 2 graphs of runs I made, the higher one is with the ROW airbox and the lower one is a run with the US airbox without the charcoal filters. sorry the operator made a mistake and labeled them carbon.
This is a comparative of runs I made with the US air box, the Highest graph is without the Charcoals while the middle one was with the charcoals still in place. Please disregard the lowest graph.
I guess you can infer that the Charcoal delete gave 5 horses while the ROW box added another 5 for a total of around 10 WHP for the mod.
This is a comparative of runs I made with the US air box, the Highest graph is without the Charcoals while the middle one was with the charcoals still in place. Please disregard the lowest graph.
I guess you can infer that the Charcoal delete gave 5 horses while the ROW box added another 5 for a total of around 10 WHP for the mod.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 93
C63 AMG
Here are 2 graphs of runs I made, the higher one is with the ROW airbox and the lower one is a run with the US airbox without the charcoal filters. sorry the operator made a mistake and labeled them carbon.
I guess you can infer that the Charcoal delete gave 5 horses while the ROW box added another 5 for a total of around 10 WHP for the mod.
I guess you can infer that the Charcoal delete gave 5 horses while the ROW box added another 5 for a total of around 10 WHP for the mod.
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 205
Likes: 3
From: Philippines
08 C63, 07 ML63, 92 500E, 70 300SEL 6.3, 63 220 SEB Conv. Sold 02 G500, 97 E50,92 C280,71 280SE 4.5
[QUOTE=bhamg;4056368]Thanks for posting these. They make sense to me in that I installed the ROW tops a few months ago and noticed nothing different whatsoever in any kind of driving. Visually comparing the tops however, it quite surprising to see how much more restrictive the OE top might be as the ROW top looks almost aftermarket. I'd really be surprised if there were not measurable differences in power in real-world road driving conditions between the two, so what you experienced on the dyno makes a lot of sense to me.[/QUOT
Although the top graph is in miles, there seems to be a sizable increase in both power and torque between 3000~4500 rpm. Thing is considering what you have as a baseline the additional 20hp or so may not be as noticable
Although the top graph is in miles, there seems to be a sizable increase in both power and torque between 3000~4500 rpm. Thing is considering what you have as a baseline the additional 20hp or so may not be as noticable
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 2
From: Prague, Czech Republic
2009 C63, 2007 GL 450
I installed the ROTW airboxes and did not notice much of a difference at all EXCEPT through the powerband at 3000-5000 rpm where there seemed to be more punch than the standard airboxes. Now that been said the combination of ROTW airboxes and K1 tune may be the reason for this preceived increase in power.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 93
C63 AMG
Absolutely true...I just don't know the car well enough yet and even if I did I doubt I could feel the difference 10 or 15hp makes. Your dyno chart indicates some really impressive gains in the sweet spot of the power band (from the perspective of a DD) which is very exciting to see. I'd rather have it there than way up on the power band. Notwithstanding my seat-of-the-pants experience I'm pretty confident that some useful additional power is liberated by the ROW top.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,983
Likes: 21
From: Vegas and Vancouver, BC
.
I installed the ROTW airboxes and did not notice much of a difference at all EXCEPT through the powerband at 3000-5000 rpm where there seemed to be more punch than the standard airboxes. Now that been said the combination of ROTW airboxes and K1 tune may be the reason for this preceived increase in power.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 1
From: Palos Verdes
'09 C63
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 275
Likes: 1
GT2 C63 and yo sister
you've gotta be kidding! I have to have the performance of my car decreased because it might give off emissions when I turn it off? Whats this world come to? I need a bumper sticker for when my car gets here that says "proud to get 12 mpg"
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,493
Likes: 3
MB
Based on the dyno graph above, the ROW box seems to provide a sizable increase in the meat of the power band, namely rwtq. I would think 20 rwtq increase in the middle of the power band could be felt for sure.
So, my questions are, does anyone know if AFR is affected by changing to the ROW box? Was AFR checked in the dyno run that is posted above? I am asking this because at this point, I am not getting a tune. Down the road I will.
Is there any surging or bucking at low speeds because of the change in air velocity that goes past the MAF given the larger opening in the ROW boxes? I know a tune can remedy these symptoms but like I said I don't want to get a tune yet.
I know that sometimes, when you change the air intake system on a car, you need to get a tune and other times you don't. I'm really curious to know if the USA C63's ECU will compensate for the increase in intake velocity given that the TB only opens part way because of the stock tune.
Any feedback to my questions would be appreciated.
So, my questions are, does anyone know if AFR is affected by changing to the ROW box? Was AFR checked in the dyno run that is posted above? I am asking this because at this point, I am not getting a tune. Down the road I will.
Is there any surging or bucking at low speeds because of the change in air velocity that goes past the MAF given the larger opening in the ROW boxes? I know a tune can remedy these symptoms but like I said I don't want to get a tune yet.
I know that sometimes, when you change the air intake system on a car, you need to get a tune and other times you don't. I'm really curious to know if the USA C63's ECU will compensate for the increase in intake velocity given that the TB only opens part way because of the stock tune.
Any feedback to my questions would be appreciated.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,207
Likes: 2
From: North Jersey
2012 CTS-V
Based on the dyno graph above, the ROW box seems to provide a sizable increase in the meat of the power band, namely rwtq. I would think 20 rwtq increase in the middle of the power band could be felt for sure.
So, my questions are, does anyone know if AFR is affected by changing to the ROW box? Was AFR checked in the dyno run that is posted above? I am asking this because at this point, I am not getting a tune. Down the road I will.
Is there any surging or bucking at low speeds because of the change in air velocity that goes past the MAF given the larger opening in the ROW boxes? I know a tune can remedy these symptoms but like I said I don't want to get a tune yet.
I know that sometimes, when you change the air intake system on a car, you need to get a tune and other times you don't. I'm really curious to know if the USA C63's ECU will compensate for the increase in intake velocity given that the TB only opens part way because of the stock tune.
Any feedback to my questions would be appreciated.
So, my questions are, does anyone know if AFR is affected by changing to the ROW box? Was AFR checked in the dyno run that is posted above? I am asking this because at this point, I am not getting a tune. Down the road I will.
Is there any surging or bucking at low speeds because of the change in air velocity that goes past the MAF given the larger opening in the ROW boxes? I know a tune can remedy these symptoms but like I said I don't want to get a tune yet.
I know that sometimes, when you change the air intake system on a car, you need to get a tune and other times you don't. I'm really curious to know if the USA C63's ECU will compensate for the increase in intake velocity given that the TB only opens part way because of the stock tune.
Any feedback to my questions would be appreciated.
and a tune is not needed for this modification.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 93
C63 AMG
Based on the dyno graph above, the ROW box seems to provide a sizable increase in the meat of the power band, namely rwtq. I would think 20 rwtq increase in the middle of the power band could be felt for sure.
So, my questions are, does anyone know if AFR is affected by changing to the ROW box? Was AFR checked in the dyno run that is posted above? I am asking this because at this point, I am not getting a tune. Down the road I will.
Is there any surging or bucking at low speeds because of the change in air velocity that goes past the MAF given the larger opening in the ROW boxes? I know a tune can remedy these symptoms but like I said I don't want to get a tune yet.
I know that sometimes, when you change the air intake system on a car, you need to get a tune and other times you don't. I'm really curious to know if the USA C63's ECU will compensate for the increase in intake velocity given that the TB only opens part way because of the stock tune.
Any feedback to my questions would be appreciated.
So, my questions are, does anyone know if AFR is affected by changing to the ROW box? Was AFR checked in the dyno run that is posted above? I am asking this because at this point, I am not getting a tune. Down the road I will.
Is there any surging or bucking at low speeds because of the change in air velocity that goes past the MAF given the larger opening in the ROW boxes? I know a tune can remedy these symptoms but like I said I don't want to get a tune yet.
I know that sometimes, when you change the air intake system on a car, you need to get a tune and other times you don't. I'm really curious to know if the USA C63's ECU will compensate for the increase in intake velocity given that the TB only opens part way because of the stock tune.
Any feedback to my questions would be appreciated.
Last edited by bhamg; Aug 25, 2010 at 04:49 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,207
Likes: 2
From: North Jersey
2012 CTS-V
Sonny - When my MBH header/cat system and RENNtech tune was installed I was very specific about a desired post-tune AFR endpoint (12:1+), even if it meant sacrificing a few peak HP in the process. I was not around for the baseline dyno testing but with OE mapping, 6k miles with the ROW airboxes and new OE air filters the AFR ran well into the 13's at points. YMMV.
tuner may have been talking about a vehicle with a tune.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,493
Likes: 3
MB
Sonny - When my MBH header/cat system and RENNtech tune was installed I was very specific about a desired post-tune AFR endpoint (12:1+), even if it meant sacrificing a few peak HP in the process. I was not around for the baseline dyno testing but with OE mapping, 6k miles with the ROW airboxes and new OE air filters the AFR ran well into the 13's at points. YMMV.
I'm new to the AMG world. I am coming from a 5th generation Chevy Camaro. With that car, if you are staying naturally aspirated, and you have crappy 91 octane gas, you want your AFR to be max 11.6 I would say (+/- a couple points).
Stock, from the factory, I think the Camaro's a pretty rich, low 11's and even high 10's from what I understand. So, adding an intake can sometimes lean the car out a little, which can have a nice result.
When you add forced induction to a Camaro, you don't want the car to run too lean because it can be very dangerous.
Now that I am learning about the 6.2 AMG engine, I am noticin higher AFR numbers that what I was used to seeing in the Camaro world.
For example: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-2010-c63.html
Now, obviously, Superlubricity's car makes great numbers and looks to be in great shape, but you can see that his AFR goes into the 13's often. Is this okay on these cars?
If so, then I would think changing out the US air boxes for ROW boxes would be safe, even without a tune, because if your car saw AFR in the 13's with this mod, that doesn't seem too different from what other "tuned" cars are seeing on this forum.
But, of course, that depends on what you mean by "well into the 13's." If you're saying it was close to 14, then I would say this mod needs an accompanying tune, because I would think running out of fuel might be an issue if the car is staying above 13 AFR.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,493
Likes: 3
MB
PREMIER SPONSOR
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,922
Likes: 0
From: Huntington Beach, CA
None fast enough!
You will not "need" a tune for any mod on the 63 in fact. The ecu will not allow the car to run into danger zone.
However, and this is a BIG however, you will get sub-optimal results. What will happen is the car will sense knock, ping, detonation or other "out of normal parameter" readings and pull timing and/or fuel. So you will have a car that you spent a lot of money on mods that runs like crap (often worse than stock).
thanks
Brad
