Benefits of an LSD, advice please
01-20-2010, 05:08 AM
#1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,155
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
11 Posts
Vath ML63 Brabus C63 SL63 CLK63BS C63BS
Benefits of an LSD, advice please
I am considering getting a Drexler LSD added to my C63. Can anyone adivse on the benefits to handling performance that could accrue from this for guy who is not exactly hitting the track every weekend but uses car as one of daily drivers?
01-20-2010, 05:47 AM
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
I thought i would post this up if you wish to go further
www.evosport.com
Quaife Limited Slip Differential
$1,789
Application: C63 AMG
Install Time (est.): 11.0 h
Part #: QFE.DRV.MBZ.002
More info: Click
Automatic Torque Biasing (ATB) Differential enables your car to accelerate quicker and corner faster by getting the power to the ground! The Quaife Differential powers both drive wheels under nearly all conditions, instead of just one. With the ordinary STOCK open differential, a lot of precious power is wasted during wheel spin under acceleration. This happens because the open differential shifts power to the wheel with less grip (along the path of least resistance). The Quaife, however, does just the opposite. It senses which wheel has the better grip, and biases the power to that wheel. It does this smoothly and constantly, and without ever completely removing power from the other wheel. Especially helpful for modified cars with high horsepower. Beneficial under acceleration, deceleration and for cornering exit speeds.
$1,789
Application: C63 AMG
Install Time (est.): 11.0 h
Part #: QFE.DRV.MBZ.002
More info: Click
Automatic Torque Biasing (ATB) Differential enables your car to accelerate quicker and corner faster by getting the power to the ground! The Quaife Differential powers both drive wheels under nearly all conditions, instead of just one. With the ordinary STOCK open differential, a lot of precious power is wasted during wheel spin under acceleration. This happens because the open differential shifts power to the wheel with less grip (along the path of least resistance). The Quaife, however, does just the opposite. It senses which wheel has the better grip, and biases the power to that wheel. It does this smoothly and constantly, and without ever completely removing power from the other wheel. Especially helpful for modified cars with high horsepower. Beneficial under acceleration, deceleration and for cornering exit speeds.
OS Giken Advanced Traction Control Differential (TCD)
$2,995
Application: C63 AMG
Install Time (est.): 11.0 h
Part #: OSG.DRV.MBZ.TCD.TPB
More info: Click
The OS Giken Super Lock TCD differential is an advanced LSD design, offering exceptionally smooth transition from open to locked operation. The unique design uses oil distribution channels on the plate surfaces and through the cartridge to achieve strong locking without the jerky low-speed operation often associate with mechanical LSD centers. The design is also maintenance-free thanks to the improved lubrication.
This advanced LSD uses a revolutionary breakthrough in clutch-type differential design. Its patented design enables 100% full locking, unparalleled durability and allows up to twice the friction plates (up to 28 plates in total) compared to conventional designs.
Made from the highest quality material using precise machining, forged gears and sound engineering, the Super Lock systems are the most durable and reliable race performance LSDs available. The Super Lock TCD is a 1.5-way differential that locks fully under acceleration and only partially under braking. However, because of the unprecedented amount of friction plates, this system results in reduced wear and more progressive locking action thus improving the ability for the LSD to lock fully and completely. And because of their fully locking design, less heat is generated resulting in even further durability and reliability.
Note: Special order item may not be in stock. Please contact us for delivery time.
$2,995
Application: C63 AMG
Install Time (est.): 11.0 h
Part #: OSG.DRV.MBZ.TCD.TPB
More info: Click
The OS Giken Super Lock TCD differential is an advanced LSD design, offering exceptionally smooth transition from open to locked operation. The unique design uses oil distribution channels on the plate surfaces and through the cartridge to achieve strong locking without the jerky low-speed operation often associate with mechanical LSD centers. The design is also maintenance-free thanks to the improved lubrication.
This advanced LSD uses a revolutionary breakthrough in clutch-type differential design. Its patented design enables 100% full locking, unparalleled durability and allows up to twice the friction plates (up to 28 plates in total) compared to conventional designs.
Made from the highest quality material using precise machining, forged gears and sound engineering, the Super Lock systems are the most durable and reliable race performance LSDs available. The Super Lock TCD is a 1.5-way differential that locks fully under acceleration and only partially under braking. However, because of the unprecedented amount of friction plates, this system results in reduced wear and more progressive locking action thus improving the ability for the LSD to lock fully and completely. And because of their fully locking design, less heat is generated resulting in even further durability and reliability.
Note: Special order item may not be in stock. Please contact us for delivery time.
01-20-2010, 06:01 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sydney & the NSW Central Coast, Australia
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
C63 AMG, BMW 135i
The LSD is a nice idea, though if you are not using it for the track the real benefit is limited. You may find you’ll get more even rear tyre wear as apposed to one wheel spinning. When one slips regularly it will continue to slip as the grip ability is lost compared to the other. I have noticed when accelerating in tight bends or out of 90 degree intersections, the traction control of the electronic diff. noticeably slows the car down due to it intervening to stop the slip of one wheel. To stop this from happening would be a great benefit in my opinion. Speak to Sonny at Marrano’s, he’s a sponsor here and sells and installs the Quaife’s for the C63. He would be able to tell you the pros and cons of an LSD for the street. Check out his website as well.
http://www.marranos.com.au/
.
http://www.marranos.com.au/
.
Last edited by sjhugh; 01-20-2010 at 06:05 AM.
01-20-2010, 06:51 AM
#6
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Mel/Syd/Tpe
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GF
The LSD is a nice idea, though if you are not using it for the track the real benefit is limited. You may find you’ll get more even rear tyre wear as apposed to one wheel spinning. When one slips regularly it will continue to slip as the grip ability is lost compared to the other. I have noticed when accelerating in tight bends or out of 90 degree intersections, the traction control of the electronic diff. noticeably slows the car down due to it intervening to stop the slip of one wheel. To stop this from happening would be a great benefit in my opinion. Speak to Sonny at Marrano’s, he’s a sponsor here and sells and installs the Quaife’s for the C63. He would be able to tell you the pros and cons of an LSD for the street. Check out his website as well.
http://www.marranos.com.au/
.
http://www.marranos.com.au/
.
01-20-2010, 07:40 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
2011 Ultima GTR
First of all, interesting the only people to reply in this thread so far are Aussie....
Anyway. As far as my research showed me pre-ordering my car, the LSD that MB uses is the Quaife one. Sonny at Marrano's mentioned on LS1.com.au he would do an install somewhere around 4k including the diff (supposedly its a tricky job and like 11h too), which is slightly better than what MB offers it at around 6k. I have no information on the OS Giken diff, but from my background of Japanese performance, OS Giken make good quality diffs/gearboxes, so I'd say it would be a good unit.
Also, in regards to the benefit to driving. What I understand about MB's rear end set up is that the factory cars that don't have LSD's have some type of distributed braking as part of the ESP. So, instead of letting a diff open wheel immediately, it will apply brake the other wheel so that acceleration is "even" to both wheels. This would mean the ESP is working against you in your goal of accelerating quickly, especially in 90 degree turns where the radius difference between left and right wheels is most.
Thus, the benefit of an LSD would be less electronic interference and more power being put down to the ground. When the diff locks on acceleration, you will have a total of [tyre width here] x 2 worth of area to transfer torque to the ground, not just one [tyre width here].
Also, Maverick1975, I asked this in another thread but how do you get a B63S? Is it a direct order from Brabus or a C63 that was given to Sharp Performance (Brabus dealer in Melbourne) to be made to Brabus specs?
Anyway. As far as my research showed me pre-ordering my car, the LSD that MB uses is the Quaife one. Sonny at Marrano's mentioned on LS1.com.au he would do an install somewhere around 4k including the diff (supposedly its a tricky job and like 11h too), which is slightly better than what MB offers it at around 6k. I have no information on the OS Giken diff, but from my background of Japanese performance, OS Giken make good quality diffs/gearboxes, so I'd say it would be a good unit.
Also, in regards to the benefit to driving. What I understand about MB's rear end set up is that the factory cars that don't have LSD's have some type of distributed braking as part of the ESP. So, instead of letting a diff open wheel immediately, it will apply brake the other wheel so that acceleration is "even" to both wheels. This would mean the ESP is working against you in your goal of accelerating quickly, especially in 90 degree turns where the radius difference between left and right wheels is most.
Thus, the benefit of an LSD would be less electronic interference and more power being put down to the ground. When the diff locks on acceleration, you will have a total of [tyre width here] x 2 worth of area to transfer torque to the ground, not just one [tyre width here].
Also, Maverick1975, I asked this in another thread but how do you get a B63S? Is it a direct order from Brabus or a C63 that was given to Sharp Performance (Brabus dealer in Melbourne) to be made to Brabus specs?
Trending Topics
01-20-2010, 08:56 AM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
a Rivera...via a Custom 24, Strat and Les Paul
First of all, interesting the only people to reply in this thread so far are Aussie....
01-20-2010, 09:10 AM
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
The LSD is a nice idea, though if you are not using it for the track the real benefit is limited. You may find you’ll get more even rear tyre wear as apposed to one wheel spinning. When one slips regularly it will continue to slip as the grip ability is lost compared to the other. I have noticed when accelerating in tight bends or out of 90 degree intersections, the traction control of the electronic diff. noticeably slows the car down due to it intervening to stop the slip of one wheel. To stop this from happening would be a great benefit in my opinion. Speak to Sonny at Marrano’s, he’s a sponsor here and sells and installs the Quaife’s for the C63. He would be able to tell you the pros and cons of an LSD for the street. Check out his website as well.
http://www.marranos.com.au/
.
http://www.marranos.com.au/
.
01-20-2010, 10:25 AM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sydney & the NSW Central Coast, Australia
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
C63 AMG, BMW 135i
No I don’t have an LSD. When I ordered my car, the dealer told me it came with the LSD as standard.
Several months later, I found out that wasn’t true, so I contacted the dealer to check and found the car was in production and it was too late to change the order. I asked for a drive of a car with and without the LSD and could really tell the different. The traction control for the electronic diff would brake in corners to even up the wheel spin and would slow the car down. And I do mean slow the car down, it was very noticeable.
I asked the dealer for a quote to have the LSD fitted when the car arrived in Australia before I picked it up and I found that a $6000 option became a $11,000 part plus labour if fitted by the dealer.
After I picked myself up off the floor, I went looking for other alternatives. That’s when Sonny showed me what he was doing with the Quaife’s as an aftermarket install. I only have 2000k on the car and it’s only an occasional weekender drive for me but I do intend to have it done soon. I don’t think it is a big deal if you are a sedate driver who never goes to the track and the benefit I get for my money will probably be minor but I do believe a performance car should be a performance car.
.
I don’t have the LSD, that’s the problem. I tried turning the traction off and all it wanted to do was shred one tyre. I find it embarrassing when a car only leaves one rubber mark on the road.
.
Fair call, V8’s are definitely in the Aussie blood.
.
01-20-2010, 12:24 PM
#14
01-20-2010, 12:29 PM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
Okay a few points as to WHY you would want one:
1. It will allow all of the power to be applied to the road through both wheels. Keep in mind, that this statement is NOT true for all LSD's. There is always a reference to an LSD's biasing. that is, HOW much torque it can transfer to one wheel, after one starts to spin/slip. A TRUE locker can achieve 100%, most LSD's can only handle 40-50%. Also keep in mind that once the electronics detect wheel spin, they will cut into your fun at a pre determined level.
2. Even tire wear. Okay almost even tire wear as one wheel STILL will spin easier, simple physics here guys.
3. An INCREASE in under-steer/pushing. That is ANY time you stiffen up the rear, you loose some steering. Again, this will not be pronounced on the street, but at the track you WILL have to adjust your driving style or it WILL push through the corners.
Now with this all be said, do you really need one? Well yes and no. If you are a true enthusiast I would say YES definitely. If you are a DD type of driver than save your money. It all comes down to what you are trying to achieve with your car.
By the way, keep in mind that some of the fastest E55's on drag times do NOT have an LSD. One VERY good member here even came out to say that when he added an LSD to his ride and I quote " It made NO difference on 60' time, et, and of course MPH"
So it is really up to your driving style. For me, that answer is simple YES, I want one in my S
For most people, save the money and put it else where.
1. It will allow all of the power to be applied to the road through both wheels. Keep in mind, that this statement is NOT true for all LSD's. There is always a reference to an LSD's biasing. that is, HOW much torque it can transfer to one wheel, after one starts to spin/slip. A TRUE locker can achieve 100%, most LSD's can only handle 40-50%. Also keep in mind that once the electronics detect wheel spin, they will cut into your fun at a pre determined level.
2. Even tire wear. Okay almost even tire wear as one wheel STILL will spin easier, simple physics here guys.
3. An INCREASE in under-steer/pushing. That is ANY time you stiffen up the rear, you loose some steering. Again, this will not be pronounced on the street, but at the track you WILL have to adjust your driving style or it WILL push through the corners.
Now with this all be said, do you really need one? Well yes and no. If you are a true enthusiast I would say YES definitely. If you are a DD type of driver than save your money. It all comes down to what you are trying to achieve with your car.
By the way, keep in mind that some of the fastest E55's on drag times do NOT have an LSD. One VERY good member here even came out to say that when he added an LSD to his ride and I quote " It made NO difference on 60' time, et, and of course MPH"
So it is really up to your driving style. For me, that answer is simple YES, I want one in my S
For most people, save the money and put it else where.
01-20-2010, 02:15 PM
#17
MBWorld Fanatic!
If you want to get the best time possible, aka lowest, save the money and buy a good set of Drag radials my friend. As I stated above, a certain someone here runs low 11's before and after his LSD. With that being said for the few days you will hit the track, just learn how to drive it, as it ill NOT make any difference.
Keep in mind, that just by having a LSD does NOT mean you still don't need tires
The few times that you REALLY need an LSD are when your on a road course coming out of a slow right hander and trying to get back on the gas. Without it, your roast the inside tire every time my friend..
Last edited by MRAMG1; 01-20-2010 at 02:29 PM.
01-20-2010, 02:33 PM
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 2,207
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
2012 CTS-V
In a word NO.
If you want to get the best time possible, aka lowest, save the money and buy a good set of Drag radials my friend. As I stated above, a certain someone here runs low 11's before and after his LSD. With that being said for the few days you will hit the track, just learn how to drive it, as it ill NOT make any difference.
Keep in mind, that just by having a LSD does NOT mean you still don't need tires
The few times that you REALLY need an LSD are when your on a road course coming out of a slow right hander and trying to get back on the gas. Without it, your roast the inside tire every time my friend..
If you want to get the best time possible, aka lowest, save the money and buy a good set of Drag radials my friend. As I stated above, a certain someone here runs low 11's before and after his LSD. With that being said for the few days you will hit the track, just learn how to drive it, as it ill NOT make any difference.
Keep in mind, that just by having a LSD does NOT mean you still don't need tires
The few times that you REALLY need an LSD are when your on a road course coming out of a slow right hander and trying to get back on the gas. Without it, your roast the inside tire every time my friend..
Appreciate the feedback.
01-20-2010, 03:01 PM
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'09 C63 AMG
I agree with the last few posts. For most ppl using their car as a DD, an LSD is not necessary. If you want to track your car regularly, then an LSD would be beneficial, especially for drifting and coming out of the apexes. As far as drag racing your car, I always thought that an LSD would help get the power to the rear wheels for less spin upon launch, but in the case of the C63 AMG (especially if tuned), that may not be necessarily true. It appears that getting a better launch in the C63 AMG may just be about practicing your launch technique, regardless of which differential you have. 
Having said all this, I thought about eventually getting an aftermarket LSD, but quickly realized I really do not need one. Interestingly enough, I did my first traction control fully off "peel out" last week before I put on some new rear tires (went with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus w/ a 45k mi. warranty btw )...and it laid down 2 (not 1) 20ft. solid rubber patches and again, I do not have an LSD????? 
Having said all this, I thought about eventually getting an aftermarket LSD, but quickly realized I really do not need one.
Interestingly enough, I did my first traction control fully off "peel out" last week before I put on some new rear tires (went with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus w/ a 45k mi. warranty btw )...and it laid down 2 (not 1) 20ft. solid rubber patches and again, I do not have an LSD?????
01-20-2010, 03:03 PM
#20
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North NJ
Posts: 2,073
Likes: 0
Received 27 Likes
on
25 Posts
2002 C32 AMG, 2013 GLK 350/4, 2015 E63S AMG Wagon
If that's the case ...
I love my LSD. Have it for over 60K miles. Again, C32 is a different car but the LSD transformed it into something else. It is my daily driver with occasional track event. Consider how long you think you are going to keep the car and figure out cost per mile. Then decide. Also consider your daily drive. Is it bumper to bumper traffic going into the city, or straight highway (rt 80) or a twisty rt. 21 going to Newark (my daily commute).
PM me if you are interested in the shop that installed my LSD.
I love my LSD. Have it for over 60K miles. Again, C32 is a different car but the LSD transformed it into something else. It is my daily driver with occasional track event. Consider how long you think you are going to keep the car and figure out cost per mile. Then decide. Also consider your daily drive. Is it bumper to bumper traffic going into the city, or straight highway (rt 80) or a twisty rt. 21 going to Newark (my daily commute).
PM me if you are interested in the shop that installed my LSD.
01-20-2010, 03:08 PM
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'09 C63 AMG
If that's the case ...
I love my LSD. Have it for over 60K miles. Again, C32 is a different car but the LSD transformed it into something else. It is my daily driver with occasional track event. Consider how long you think you are going to keep the car and figure out cost per mile. Then decide. Also consider your daily drive. Is it bumper to bumper traffic going into the city, or straight highway (rt 80) or a twisty rt. 21 going to Newark (my daily commute).
PM me if you are interested in the shop that installed my LSD.
I love my LSD. Have it for over 60K miles. Again, C32 is a different car but the LSD transformed it into something else. It is my daily driver with occasional track event. Consider how long you think you are going to keep the car and figure out cost per mile. Then decide. Also consider your daily drive. Is it bumper to bumper traffic going into the city, or straight highway (rt 80) or a twisty rt. 21 going to Newark (my daily commute).
PM me if you are interested in the shop that installed my LSD.
My tuned C63 AMG puts down 417RWHP / 381 lb-ft RWTQ. I imagine an LSD wouldn't help all that much when going in a straight line.
01-20-2010, 03:26 PM
#25
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'09 C63 AMG
DRs...absolutely yes (on any car for that matter), LSD...not so much, imho. But, I do not have an LSD and haven't driven a C63 w/ an LSD, so I do not know for certain. But, as others have said, the LSD doesn't seem to matter all that much, especially when comparing launches and 1/4 mi. ETs and Traps.
