C63 Guy

Meow, kitty. That's truly entertaining comparing a supercharged car with 580rwtq to a NA car with a cooked transmission. I give you props for dropping your standards to that level. Nice misdirection. Don't go down this road and start acting like Andy did when people questioned his products. He still has many loyal customers, but he also has a lot of people that don't like or respect him because of his defensive attitude and aggressive behavior towards others. Many people won't buy his products, no matter how good, just because of him. That's a bad thing.

People here have a much deeper knowledge of these products than I guess you're used to, so you'd better have a darn good understanding of what you're selling, why it is what it is, and how it does what it does.

Anyway, I don't work at evosport any more. Haven't been there in close to five months. However, I have been welding and machining for 17 years and am still very interested in the exhaust "game" and you haven't actually answered a SINGLE technical question I've asked you, starting waaaay back in your previous thread. And now you get defensive and snippy when I ask some specific questions regarding fabrication? Being known as a quality fabricator people have been coming to me and asking if these headers are "for real," and I'd like to say yes, but you're making it hard by ducking and dodging ALL my questions. I don't have any agenda against you and would like to see you do well because I think your headers look really cool, but I'm asking straightforward questions and not getting straightforward answers.

Sorry to push your buttons with a few simple questions.

Josh

avengerboater

Wow.

Dads C63

Mike,
Why the defensive posture, here we go again. You state in this thread that these are manufacturing advantages of your product and Josh simply ask what that means. Why not just factually answer the questions?? You and Hoolamonster seem to think avoiding or sarcasm is a good way to answer or not answer the questions. Did you not expect educated individuals to ask questions concerning your product, come on?

As far as indepenedent test results go, sorry, didn't mean to rush things. Until then, "where's the torque"?

hoolamonster

LOL you guys attacked MBH with weather question and many more questions he quite frankly doesn't really need to answer IMO. A/F who cares just be thankful he provided a dyno chart with a tune on it, he didn't have to!

If the guy says A/F was on point, ITS ON POINT! lol you think Renntech tunes like *****??? lmao

Now I know I replied with some smart *** comments in here but that is because the questions being asked are pretty assigning...

PUSH AND PUSH the point of weather, look it up online its really not that hard. You guys are being picky and lame because the dudes product just through down mind blowing numbers!!!

@brad @ evosport - your argument... you defend someone NOT being your fabricator but basically go on to say he was for your headers. If he still works for you then as a professional you should tell him to back off he shouldn't be probing the way he is. If he wants professional consulting on how to build these headers then he should contact MBH other than forum replies, cause to me that's what his comments sound like! I mean assuming from what you say and defending him that he's not being an @ss.

IMO all of your guys comments should be deleted from this thread as they do nothing but try to undermine MBH... who has proven results on 55's and now is trying to spread some love to the 63's. I smell a lot of HATE in this thread.

I love that Vid btw PWND dude ran an 11.5 like a couple runs later too!

hoolamonster

YOU SHOULD HAVE GOT A 55!

C63 Guy

As to who cares about AFRs: Anyone with a desire to see their motor last for any length of time is who cares.

You lean out the mix too much and you get real high power numbers but threaten detonation. He posted that the numbers were probably in the 11-12 range after the install, but that's actually what the stock numbers are. If you add this much flow to this motor without adding the appropriate amount of fuel, you're going to lean the hell out of it. I've seen this first hand watching my car get tuned for headers. It was scary lean when we swapped over. We gained almost 2 points and had to add a TON of fuel to get it back down.

I get that Mike's "not a software guy" and that's fine, neither am I. But you need to have a real clear picture of your combustion process to run high compression motors safely for the long term, and this is Tuning 101 type stuff.

Josh

avengerboater

First off, we are not in any way "attacking" MBH and his new product. It's been stated many times on this thread that there are many people looking forward to the product, including me. The headers look good, the numbers look good, but anyone can make anything look good if they know how to present it in the right fashion.

You and MBH's perception of being "attacked" is simply from being asked valid and pertinent questions about a product that is released. Like Dads and Josh has said, there are very intellectual people on this forum that are not only enthusiasts, but also gearheads.

As for "questions he quite frankly doesn't really need to answer", any vendor, any vendor should be ready and able to answer questions about his product. If not, he's simply NOT ready to release it.

And the superior attitude about us feeling grateful that we're "even getting a dyno chart" is totally ridiculous. Do you really think, i mean honestly think that you can release a product like long tube headers in this day and age without a dyno chart proving that it actually works? If you knew anything about marketing, promoting, and customer service (which seems like you are both lacking), you would know that releasing as much information as possible and answering all pertinent questions about your product will do you WONDERS for the sale of the product.

Are you fricken serious when you ask that question? It's so absurdedly stupid that I will just say wow. Um, we do? Engines do? Pistons do? And I'm sure it'll be "on point" when someone burns a whole through their engine?

No, but it is NOT that hard of a data to retrieve. Even Mike said so himself in an earlier post: "It's not that hard, it's right off the chart so I'll pull it tomorrow." Well?

In summary, if you want to be defensive about your product, then at least back it up with hard data, stop ignoring the questions, side-stepping all the valid inquiries with childish responses, and backlashing at people who were interested in your product.

BerBer63

Are all these AFR from exhaust fume sniffers they clip on during dynos? How accurate are those for tuning?

MBH motorsports

Brad thats total crap! C63 Guy persents his car as the EVOsport R&D car! Go to Mymbonline.com he clearly states that his car is the EVOsport R&D car! His car is all over your magizine ads. Not to mention he did have an interest in the C63 headers!


Talking about messeges sent! You personaly send me a message taking exception to my claim that these are one of the most researched headers on the Mercedes aftermarket. And not to try and steel sales. You know what Brad these are the BEST headers ever made for the C63!!!! Thats how I feel about them. I am more than able to say things like this without the wrath of Brad...

For you to even bee in this thread is so out of line its unreal! For you to say He is or is not part of the EVOsport team is crazy! I will be contacting Internet Brands to expose all of this. This is a total sham!

MBH motorsports

If someone with a relationship with another shop, weather it be a W2 or a 1099 relationship comes in hear with the only goal is to make my product look bad. I will defend that until the end.

You want to talk about slipping trans my trans was just rebuilt a week ago! So dont give me any of that.

You are in this thread to help no one but your self. You want to try to make me look bad. I'm selling my headers for much less that any 63 header available. I would be very afraid.

C63 Guy

Maybe you should also look at when my last post or last visit to that forum was... Somewhere like 6 months ago. Sorry I haven't changed my signature over there yet. I'll be sure to get right on that.

Yeah, I made my car 100% available to them when I was working there, but it's been months since I was at the shop. And even longer since we used my car for any testing purposes. I paid retail for the vast majority of my mods before I started there, and haven't asked for a deal on a single part since I've left (Edit: My bad, I got some motor oil and a filter.). We parted ways on good terms and I'm glad we could to that, but I am in no way financially connected to evosport any more. So please don't accuse Brad of paying me off or whatever it is you're trying to imply.

You keep getting real nasty and pointing fingers as if we're all in cahoots against you, but you STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED A SINGLE LEGITIMATE QUESTION POSED TO YOU REGARDING THE FABRICATION OF OR TUNING FOR THESE HEADERS. I've even offered you several outs to say "I did it that way because I just wanted to." But you keep slathering us with marketing doublespeak and angry misdirection instead.

Man up, drop the attitude, and get real. You talked a lot of **** at SEMA about the quality, design, and performance of the evo headers. Yeah, when you act like that people talk, and it got back to me pretty quickly. That hurt me because, yes, I had a hand in the development of them, but I let is slide because I didn't know who you were or what you had planned and thought maybe you had some real depth of knowledge on the subject. Now that you've released your product people are asking perfectly reasonable questions regarding your fabrication choices and we get this response? Really?

Josh

Dads C63

You really do have an axe to grind for some reason. First you attack me as a representative for MHP and now Josh as a representative for Evosport?? Neither of us work for either of these companies in any way shape or fashion. NO 1099 or any other payment from them. Instead of answering the questions and offering real data you attack those that ask real need to be answered questions. You can self destruct all by yourself. Making claims like "they are the BEST headers ever made for a C63" is ridiculous. They may be cheaper but they do not produce the HP or torque of the competition so stop making claims that you can't back up. I will be glad to supply independent dyno graphs for my headers that show MUCH higher HP and torque numbers with the same mods.

Good grief, offer your products for what they are, accept the questions, answer them in a professional manner and hopefully you'll sell them. Real performance intelligent owners need to know what they are buying. I said congrats before and I'll say it again but stop attacking those that are asking pertinent questions for the sale of your product.

MBH motorsports

I'm getting mad because You are here for no reason other than to say NOTHING GOOD! Bash me at the front of the post then try make nice at the end.

MBH motorsports

Well I've got something that looks like this...

MHP R&D car> ME<EVOsport R&D car


Maybe ask yourself WHY YOU DIDNT USE ANY 321 stainless in your headers.

MBH motorsports

I think its total crap that a sponsor can get hung out to dry BY an other site sponsor and 2 R&D car from other companies!

Lenin

This is getting out of hand.
The product is not even for sale and you want to know what the guy had for lunch during the dyno. For people (Josh and Dads) who don't intend to buy anything from Mike, you sure have a lot of questions and a way to ask them. Somehow you don't come across as genuine. Knowledgable - yes, but not genuine.

And for Josh, this may be a more appropriate forum for you.
http://weldingweb.com/

MBH motorsports

Amen!

brad @ evosport

Mike, did you not PM me this:

on Friday at 10:34 AM? I am happy to post the entire PM log with your permission?

You clearly had a different attitude then?

I have not hung you out to dry at all. I, like many others, have some serious questions (and many comments that I am not making publicly). Why is it that all of a sudden nobody is allowed to ask questions on a Mercedes forum?

If you have all of a sudden come up with a revolutionary product at $2000 less than ours, of course I am interested in more information. I would be insane not to be. But as of yet, we are watching and waiting for some real hard data to come out. If you notice in any of our build threads or product release threads, we answer ALL questions (even from those that are with or aligned with or fans of our competition).

As I told you in PM, there are more than enough 63-series Mercedes out there for all the tuners to service. No one tuner (regardless of price or Performance) will capture all of those sales. I welcome you to the fray and if I can give you one piece of advice it is to take a different approach and attitude. You will not win over any friends/fans by diverting attention or taking pot-shots at those that are not only C63 OWNERS, but educated Mercedes enthusiasts. I think we have seen dozens of vendors/sponsors with that MO come and go over the last 10+ years!

Again, for the record - congrats on your new product and I, like many others, are interested in hearing more info!

Thanks
Brad

MBH motorsports

PM you what? You contacted me. I explaned myself and was sensitive you your issues.

Are you implying that I posted a verbatim PM messege?

Lets keep the PM's between us.

Sponsors have a fear of Brad, Because He is not only a Site Sponsor.. He is also a Moderator and Admin. That is a conflict of interest by a publicly traded company If I've ever seen one.

I have said nothing about EVOsports products so for you to be in this thread is beyond me.

hoolamonster

@Lenin - AMEN

Such HATERS I'm glad people are seeing through their BS...

This is their thread format:

BS,BS,BS O btw great numbers and product... SOOOO passive aggressive!

These dudes are giving the c63 guys a bad name!

MBH motorsports

You are not kidding Bro,

I'm just trying to off a good product to you C63 guys at the most afordable price available for a C63 long tube.

dacls63amg

So much drama! C mon guys. Those are great looking headers and i bet they produce huge gains!

MBH motorsports

Brad here is some real hard data. MBH/DC VS. EVOsport

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7gEg__GBn0


You dont have guys with no interest in buying your product probing your threads when they are from or have a relationship with a competitor. You dont see me anywhere near your Header threads. Nor do you see the people that have an allegiance to MBH, and or Dyno-Comp posting in anyother sponsors thread unless its a sincer congratulations.

I dont bash me in the begaining of the post then love me at the end. People see thought that crap... And its FAKE.

alqamzi

Time for lawyers to appear

C63 Guy

ROFLMAO! Classic misdirection, again.

But to satisfy your curiosity I'll tell you why: It costs 3x as much and in this application, there's absolutely nothing to be gained from it. However, when you use connected flanges like you are, you do run into the possibility of cracking with 321, because it has higher strength and a lower MOE than either 308 or 316. So there's that.

Next?

Josh

PS - I absolutely love that you KEEP posting your supercharged car running against my N/A car. What EXACTLY is the hard data there? That a heavily modified supercharged car is faster than a N/A car with a tune, exhaust and pulley? Yes, that is hard data... that you're comparing apples to oranges. ROFL.