SUPERCHARGED m156, 63 amg !!!!
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
E63
Dynamic forces and stresses have nothing to do with torque multiplication. You are talking about an entirely different subject. You can torque multiply a dynamic force, but torque multiplication is not dynamic force/stress. Seriously the book is call “Machine Elements,” you could learn a lot.
Are you going t sit there and tell me, the AMG designed the pistons of the M156 to a lower stander than other cast pistons out there in MB engines. The MB engines and the M156 do not share anything in common other than they are both under the MB company and therefore, thinking logically and a German would do, would both design to the same minimum standard. If anything the AMG motor would designed to a higher standard. I don’t care if you have seen it. The fact that you have looked at it doesn’t mean you have done a stress test or analysis on it. From what you have posted here, I don’t believe you would even understand those processes.
Define successful? It is the same thing I have been talking about the whole time. A low boost bolt-on application for NA engine. 600 RWHP on a very, very mild and streetable LS7 setup is successful in my mind. I think many here would like 600RWHP with bolt-on equipment.
You really think you are smarter than you are. Good, you have yourself fooled. I am sure you have been playing around with engines for a long time right? You must have picked up quite a bit of experience building, but you seem to have no clue on the fundamental principles of engineering, design, and theory that are used to conceive and build the thing you have been tinkering with your whole life. There is always more to it than text books, but you will never really fully understand the subject unless you start with the text books and not the other way around. To say that text books are irrelevant is to stay 1 that you cannot learn from those who came before you and 2 just wholeheartedly stupid.
Are you going t sit there and tell me, the AMG designed the pistons of the M156 to a lower stander than other cast pistons out there in MB engines. The MB engines and the M156 do not share anything in common other than they are both under the MB company and therefore, thinking logically and a German would do, would both design to the same minimum standard. If anything the AMG motor would designed to a higher standard. I don’t care if you have seen it. The fact that you have looked at it doesn’t mean you have done a stress test or analysis on it. From what you have posted here, I don’t believe you would even understand those processes.
Define successful? It is the same thing I have been talking about the whole time. A low boost bolt-on application for NA engine. 600 RWHP on a very, very mild and streetable LS7 setup is successful in my mind. I think many here would like 600RWHP with bolt-on equipment.
You really think you are smarter than you are. Good, you have yourself fooled. I am sure you have been playing around with engines for a long time right? You must have picked up quite a bit of experience building, but you seem to have no clue on the fundamental principles of engineering, design, and theory that are used to conceive and build the thing you have been tinkering with your whole life. There is always more to it than text books, but you will never really fully understand the subject unless you start with the text books and not the other way around. To say that text books are irrelevant is to stay 1 that you cannot learn from those who came before you and 2 just wholeheartedly stupid.
Look, you can be the world's best engineer and still not be able to ring a shortblock properly. I've actually built something that makes 233HP/L N/A, what have you done aside from read some textbooks?
I don't have to run a material analysis on the pistons to know what they're made of, and even an engineer can measure a ringland's thickness
You're right, we completely ignore physics and mathematics when building spec race engines, it just all goes out the window.
You think 600rwhp from a supercharged 7.0L revving to 7000rpm+ is good? I think that mark has been hit N/A so in my opinion that's a huge failure. Why go FI if you can make the same power N/A? All the additional torque is just going to make the car more difficult to hook on the street.
Anyway that is again an irrelevant example as Z06s do not share our drivelines, 600rwhp isn't happening anytime soon without major developments as we all know.
Last, this is the last time I'm going to repeat it but why are you still going on about low boost and the pistons being ok? I didn't say anything to the contrary. UP the boost and then you'll def need a new bottom end. I'm really not debating this with you, as in we agree, so why are you still going on about it? LOL
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,493
Likes: 3
MB
Point two is very interesting and cool. It was nice to find out that the M156 block is so strong.
TT does sound nice. Wonder how they would fit besides rear mount, but I don't want to take the topic off of twin screws which are great. I loved mine for the short time I had it.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 617
Likes: 1
From: San Diego
MB
One things for sure, everyone posting here is very passionate about cars!
I'm taking a guess here but it looks like they used a laser to "map" the valley in order to fabricate the intake manifold? Now that's some trick *****! (If I'm right of course).
I'm taking a guess here but it looks like they used a laser to "map" the valley in order to fabricate the intake manifold? Now that's some trick *****! (If I'm right of course).
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
c63 amg
Bolt On Supercharger for C63 661HP
Wow has anyone any info on this? Which supercharger would be better?
I want one asap!
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=877j-ufLfWY
www.weistec.com
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK4nFksfbRQ
www.xtra-power.com
I want one asap!
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=877j-ufLfWY
www.weistec.com
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK4nFksfbRQ
www.xtra-power.com
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,317
Likes: 3
From: Northport N.Y.
2013 f250 6.7 diesel
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,278
Likes: 3
From: Livingston NJ
C63, Grigio Medio E46 M3
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
No hp/trq numbers yet
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,974
Likes: 2
From: NY
See Sig
Ahhh! I was looking at the SLS kit price! I was about to declare all of you completely insane.
15K is quite a hit as well though, better have some serious results for that price.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,317
Likes: 3
From: Northport N.Y.
2013 f250 6.7 diesel
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 122
Likes: 2
From: Houston, TX
2009 C63
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
coupe
Um... have you seen the pictures, or are you just posting? It is a TVS 2300 blower that mounts directly to a manifold that bolts directly to the heads. It is not like a centrifugal supercharger or a turbo kit where you can front mount an air to air intercooler. In short, an air to air intercooler is not feasible in the application.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/s...rcooler051.jpg
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 13,489
Likes: 96
haters crazy
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
coupe
It is def. more efficient, there is no doubt about that. The cobra, and the zr1 uses the cooling system. the only issue for A2W is that you need to have a pump running to the intercooler to take all that heat coming in. Which means a constant temperature above the ambient air
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 122
Likes: 2
From: Houston, TX
2009 C63
Please tell me thats a joke? A2A is def. feasable, I know how the supercharger mounts. You can mount a A2A to anything, A2W does not make sense with street drivability- track then yes.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/s...rcooler051.jpg
http://media.photobucket.com/image/s...rcooler051.jpg
I take issue with your statement that A2W doesn’t make sense for street drivability. Is that a joke? What would make it better for the track and not street? Most factory/OE supercharged applications today use A2W intercoolers. Are you insinuating that these setups including the one for the E55 are inadequate for street drivability? If so, I guess those AMG Engineers don’t know what they are doing.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
coupe
Wow, I wasn’t joking, but I have never seen a A2A intercooler used in conjunctions with a Twin screw or roots style supercharger. So, I will concede that.
I take issue with your statement that A2W doesn’t make sense for street drivability. Is that a joke? What would make it better for the track and not street? Most factory/OE supercharged applications today use A2W intercoolers. Are you insinuating that these setups including the one for the E55 are inadequate for street drivability? If so, I guess those AMG Engineers don’t know what they are doing.
I take issue with your statement that A2W doesn’t make sense for street drivability. Is that a joke? What would make it better for the track and not street? Most factory/OE supercharged applications today use A2W intercoolers. Are you insinuating that these setups including the one for the E55 are inadequate for street drivability? If so, I guess those AMG Engineers don’t know what they are doing.
Please come with facts when you decide to post your opinions on the matter.
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 122
Likes: 2
From: Houston, TX
2009 C63
It is def. more efficient, there is no doubt about that. The cobra, and the zr1 uses the cooling system. the only issue for A2W is that you need to have a pump running to the intercooler to take all that heat coming in. Which means a constant temperature above the ambient air
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 122
Likes: 2
From: Houston, TX
2009 C63
I posted a link above to validate my statement with a2A with a roots style blower. I stated that A2W is more efficient, (air to water) most of the A2W use the cooling system (zr1,cobra). Which is different that an A2W that uses water and ice, (mostly seen at the track), and where is the A2W setup on the cobra.. yes the front bumper http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...ntercooler.jpg
Please come with facts when you decide to post your opinions on the matter.
Please come with facts when you decide to post your opinions on the matter.
Your writing is a little difficult to follow. What exactly are you trying to argue? Also, my arguments have references to the laws of heat transfer and thermodynamics. Research them if you want, but I don’t have time to give you a full engineering lesson nor will I copy and paste a bunch of material everyone could find on their own. Your argument has a picture that proves the a2a system exists for a manifold mounted blower, but do you have any “facts” about this setup? Does it work well? Is it preferable to other systems? If so why? Since you think you are the man with all the “facts,” lets us know why Weistec should drop everything they are doing and go with an a2a system like you posted. Please don’t forget the FACTS.
Finally you advocated for a2a intercooler on a manifold mounted blower. Are you still advocating for one, or are you conceding that it is not such a great idea for this type of application? Don’t you think there is a reason you don’t see a2a intercoolers in many aftermarket or OEM manifold mounted superchargers? You have obviously proved they exist, but there must be a reason they are not more prevalent. Most likely for the reasons I have listed earlier.
Last edited by TexasEngineer; Jan 14, 2011 at 12:26 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 68
From: Texas
C63 507 AMG DA Car #19
A2W - has downsides due to a finite volume of heatexchanger fluid mass.
The water in the system will slowly inc in temps under heavy use and in traffic without some extras...... extra he, extra reservoir...etc......
Other downsides of A2W:
1. added components, elec, mech, complexity
2. putting a water filled he in the intake flow path has it's own risks... and they do leak.
3. finite amount of he fluid media..... which will heat up over time VS infinite amb air.
Where-as the A2A has a infinite volume of fixed temp ambient air.
Downsides:
1. can be difficult to plumb in/out tubing... should be heat wrapped and mandrel bent to min psi loss
2. can have sig psi loss due to extra ftg of tubing, bends, and psi drop in large a2a he's..... I've seen 2-4psi of boost lost going from no he to a2a, but the cooler charge more than makes up for the psi loss.
There is no hard and fast rule in hot rodding....... each has it's application.
I'm pretty excited to see some serious mods coming rather than just bolt-on headers/air filter piping..... bring on some ported heads, strokers, and blowers!
The water in the system will slowly inc in temps under heavy use and in traffic without some extras...... extra he, extra reservoir...etc......
Other downsides of A2W:
1. added components, elec, mech, complexity
2. putting a water filled he in the intake flow path has it's own risks... and they do leak.
3. finite amount of he fluid media..... which will heat up over time VS infinite amb air.
Where-as the A2A has a infinite volume of fixed temp ambient air.
Downsides:
1. can be difficult to plumb in/out tubing... should be heat wrapped and mandrel bent to min psi loss
2. can have sig psi loss due to extra ftg of tubing, bends, and psi drop in large a2a he's..... I've seen 2-4psi of boost lost going from no he to a2a, but the cooler charge more than makes up for the psi loss.
There is no hard and fast rule in hot rodding....... each has it's application.
I'm pretty excited to see some serious mods coming rather than just bolt-on headers/air filter piping..... bring on some ported heads, strokers, and blowers!
Last edited by betrezra; Jan 14, 2011 at 12:43 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,207
Likes: 2
From: North Jersey
2012 CTS-V
Maybe we can get a group buy going for this bad boy.
