C63 as a Collector Car?
03-18-2014, 06:19 PM
#51
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03-19-2014, 03:08 AM
#52
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I think the issue that prevents us from thinking straight is the fact that we see the enzo jump in price soo much. 3x what it was MSRP +/- colors (crazy). i just saw CNC post up a Black ENZO the other week 1.9MM.
When people see these types of vehicle appreciate value so much we start to think any old '507' is going to rise up 3x its value. You said it perfectly with supply/demand which is why some of these older 'american muscle' cars are so valuable. THEY'RE RARE IN A CLEAN FORM. Enzo is rare because they only made 399 (plus 4 or 5 whatever lie they say) and you couldn't just BUY ONE from your dealer you were chosen. BARRIER of entry is another big reason they jumped up soo high.
Like I said before the only car I can see right now that will rise up in value soon is an E55 AMG. One of the only cars people really want for multiple reasons.
I am not saying a C63 couldn't rise up in value but a clean C63 is not as hot as a clean E46 M3 which still holds a high premium for a low mileage car. My opinion but I would still like to hear what you guys have to say.
When people see these types of vehicle appreciate value so much we start to think any old '507' is going to rise up 3x its value. You said it perfectly with supply/demand which is why some of these older 'american muscle' cars are so valuable. THEY'RE RARE IN A CLEAN FORM. Enzo is rare because they only made 399 (plus 4 or 5 whatever lie they say) and you couldn't just BUY ONE from your dealer you were chosen. BARRIER of entry is another big reason they jumped up soo high.
Like I said before the only car I can see right now that will rise up in value soon is an E55 AMG. One of the only cars people really want for multiple reasons.
I am not saying a C63 couldn't rise up in value but a clean C63 is not as hot as a clean E46 M3 which still holds a high premium for a low mileage car. My opinion but I would still like to hear what you guys have to say.
03-19-2014, 03:22 AM
#53
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benz E300 W212
SKD Automotive ---- SKD English Semi-Knocked Down acronym, meaning "half in bulk." In other words, SKD assembly of imported cars car means (such as engine, cab, chassis, etc.) from abroad and in the domestic automobile factory assembled cars. SKD is equivalent to the car to make people "semi", simply import it into a vehicle after assembly.
03-19-2014, 03:50 AM
#54
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Hind Sight is always 100%. To be blunt, we can all weigh in on this. No one can tell what will happen 20 years down the road from now.
If you are one of the fortunate ones who have the means to keep and maintain a car like the C63 for long term (20+ years) chances are you are not keeping it with hopes of high resale value. Believe me 20 years worth of memories with a vehicle is worth a lot more then just a few bucks.
That being said, I'm surprised no one really mentioned that the M156 is the pinnacle of AMG divisions commercial Naturally aspirated motors. It truly is the last of the Big breed V8's, Some may also argue (Myself included) that the C63 actually is a better everyday road car compared to the M3. This coming from a guy that had every intention to purchase an E90 M3 before I sat in the seat of a C63.
Isnt it funny - the E90 M3 is already touted as a future classic. I can tell you they sold a heck of a lot more E9X M3's then they did C63's. I guess at this point supply / demand doesn't necessarily play a big factor in gauging what future classics would be!
That being said, I have a very strong feeling the W204 C63 will be one of the all time great engines / cars from AMG Division. Keep your car clean Im sure you will be beating up on the M Fanboys for years down the road.
If you are one of the fortunate ones who have the means to keep and maintain a car like the C63 for long term (20+ years) chances are you are not keeping it with hopes of high resale value. Believe me 20 years worth of memories with a vehicle is worth a lot more then just a few bucks.
That being said, I'm surprised no one really mentioned that the M156 is the pinnacle of AMG divisions commercial Naturally aspirated motors. It truly is the last of the Big breed V8's, Some may also argue (Myself included) that the C63 actually is a better everyday road car compared to the M3. This coming from a guy that had every intention to purchase an E90 M3 before I sat in the seat of a C63.
Isnt it funny - the E90 M3 is already touted as a future classic. I can tell you they sold a heck of a lot more E9X M3's then they did C63's. I guess at this point supply / demand doesn't necessarily play a big factor in gauging what future classics would be!
That being said, I have a very strong feeling the W204 C63 will be one of the all time great engines / cars from AMG Division. Keep your car clean Im sure you will be beating up on the M Fanboys for years down the road.
03-19-2014, 04:22 AM
#55
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C63 GT3RS F800R
IMO the CBS has a chance of being a collectors car. I know I will buy one later on :P. The 507/p31 etc those do not. Still are awesome cars, but just nothing special about them, just too many around. I have a GT3 RS in my country, bought it for a lot and still is worth a lot because there are only 2 or 3. It's a beautiful, fun to drive and also sometimes a b***h to drive but unfortunately those do not matter what matters is numbers the production number of the gt3 rs is 1906 or 1907 in span of 2007-2011. I don't remember and than you have the GT3 rs 4.0 which has a production number of 500. That car sold for 220 msrp in 2010-2011 model year being 2011 car is now worth 350k min for a one with nice options and low miles. The thing with cars is you have to look at what people buy them for, Porsches especially the GT- RS series people buy them to drive on weekends or sometimes on tracks, these cars have a lot of people interested in them were as our C63's are nothing but a fast daily. It's just not a lot of car collectors are interested in MB's and for a car to be a collectible it has to wanted by many and not be many on the market. So guys here's the plan we all keep the c63s and make people want them but not be able to find them so eventually the demand will be more than the supply haha :P joke aside the key point is demand and supply for a cars resale price and if a car is an iconic car than the car becomes a collectible. That's my thoughts
06-01-2015, 10:47 PM
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C63 Edition 507
The 507 is a modified M156 's that has the M159's forged pistons, connecting rod, and super light weight crank shaft.....very far from the end of the line part dump buddy....nice try and thanks for sharing your ignorance. 
The 507 is the end of the line parts dump, to help blow-out the last of the shells. I don't think it can be held in the same regard as a BS.
507's are readily available and the equivalent of a P30 package, just different options at a different point in the lifecycle
Just sayin....
507's are readily available and the equivalent of a P30 package, just different options at a different point in the lifecycle
Just sayin....
Last edited by Ronen; 06-01-2015 at 11:26 PM.
06-01-2015, 10:55 PM
#57
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Carbon Fiber crankshaft?
What the fu<k are you smoking
The sales guy must have loved you when you rolled in
I love how you end your rant with "ignorance"
What the fu<k are you smoking
The sales guy must have loved you when you rolled in
I love how you end your rant with "ignorance"
06-01-2015, 11:01 PM
#58
P31 also has the sls pistons connecting rods and lighter weight crank, difference is the 507 has a more aggressive tune and cosmetic additions. I like the 507 but it's no sls or black series
06-01-2015, 11:16 PM
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C63 Edition 507
Looking at the advantages of what a carbon fiber crank shaft can do versus your normal steel crank shaft:
The Edition 507 shares the same light weight, crank shaft that is in the SLS GT
The Edition 507 shares the same light weight, crank shaft that is in the SLS GT
Last edited by Ronen; 06-01-2015 at 11:25 PM.
06-01-2015, 11:20 PM
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C63 Edition 507
I owned a 2012 P31 coupe- it did not have the same crank shaft, the pistons are forged, but not the same ones used in the SLS or 507.
06-02-2015, 02:30 AM
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C63 Edition 507
I do have to debunk your theory and challenge anyone to correct anyone of the below with real facts (must include a source no 
pls). The 507 is much a lot more than just the "aggressive tune and cosmetic additions" that you want to believe. In reality, it is the opposite- it is a tuned down SLS engine in a C class body with upgraded brakes and suspension w/a functional BS bonnet. Its a completely different engine than the 2012 P31 C63 or any other normal or PP C63 from the factory. No real solid info on whats in the Edition 1 (other than maybe an aggressive tune with cosmetic features as you put it or might be thinking of). BS is a DTM inspired road/track car, much bigger tires in the back with other parts that they used on the DTM race car.
The link at the very bottom is from Mercedes Benz that you probably should read that disproves your claim/quote. The differences between my old/any 2012 p31 and the 507 would be:
1) The manifolds have higher air flow than in the P61 than what the P31 package would have
2) New engine control system (blah blah)
3) Forged Pistons from the M159
4) Connecting Rods from the M159
5) Lightweight crank shaft that is over 3lbs lighter than any stock C63 built (other than BS)
6) The reduction of rotational mass inertia has improved the agility of this beastly modified M156 engine
7) Top speed limited by AMG from 155 to 174 mph (note- odometer reads 176 on my 507 when going to the electronically governed top speed at the track )
Not too mention the "cosmetic" features that would be functional and very stylish and on the BS as well. Oh and those brake, AMAZING !!! Though P31 had awesome braking too, they say the brakes are also an upgrade in the 507 than what was available for the P31.
The handling has proven to be better than the p31 coupe I had (or what I want to believe at least lol)! The grin on my face is a lot longer and the extra in every category is there in the 507. That would not be out of the box with the P31 I owned previously that just was not there (w/o having to pay thousands++ and void warrant). That extra punch off the line and at high gears (even in S+ mode the tranny does not shift until after redline and I have zero lag of power between gears- super car stuff!!). That 2/8ths improvement in the 0-60 times from the P31 in the releases is safe to say a conservative statement that MB is known to make. On the street/track- it is quicker than my P31 by more than 2/8th easily on a consistent basis. Adding some Michelin PSS after the dealer tires wore off in 7k miles can handle the extra power and you'll see you're times improve in any AMG, but more so the 507 or BS because of its added power thanks to the high end/top of the line PPs by AMG!!
http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA...dition_507.pdf
pls). The 507 is much a lot more than just the "aggressive tune and cosmetic additions" that you want to believe. In reality, it is the opposite- it is a tuned down SLS engine in a C class body with upgraded brakes and suspension w/a functional BS bonnet. Its a completely different engine than the 2012 P31 C63 or any other normal or PP C63 from the factory. No real solid info on whats in the Edition 1 (other than maybe an aggressive tune with cosmetic features as you put it or might be thinking of). BS is a DTM inspired road/track car, much bigger tires in the back with other parts that they used on the DTM race car. The link at the very bottom is from Mercedes Benz that you probably should read that disproves your claim/quote. The differences between my old/any 2012 p31 and the 507 would be:
1) The manifolds have higher air flow than in the P61 than what the P31 package would have
2) New engine control system (blah blah)
3) Forged Pistons from the M159
4) Connecting Rods from the M159
5) Lightweight crank shaft that is over 3lbs lighter than any stock C63 built (other than BS)
6) The reduction of rotational mass inertia has improved the agility of this beastly modified M156 engine
7) Top speed limited by AMG from 155 to 174 mph (note- odometer reads 176 on my 507 when going to the electronically governed top speed at the track )
Not too mention the "cosmetic" features that would be functional and very stylish and on the BS as well. Oh and those brake, AMAZING !!! Though P31 had awesome braking too, they say the brakes are also an upgrade in the 507 than what was available for the P31.
The handling has proven to be better than the p31 coupe I had (or what I want to believe at least lol)! The grin on my face is a lot longer and the extra in every category is there in the 507. That would not be out of the box with the P31 I owned previously that just was not there (w/o having to pay thousands++ and void warrant). That extra punch off the line and at high gears (even in S+ mode the tranny does not shift until after redline and I have zero lag of power between gears- super car stuff!!). That 2/8ths improvement in the 0-60 times from the P31 in the releases is safe to say a conservative statement that MB is known to make. On the street/track- it is quicker than my P31 by more than 2/8th easily on a consistent basis. Adding some Michelin PSS after the dealer tires wore off in 7k miles can handle the extra power and you'll see you're times improve in any AMG, but more so the 507 or BS because of its added power thanks to the high end/top of the line PPs by AMG!!
http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA...dition_507.pdf
Last edited by Ronen; 06-02-2015 at 02:36 AM.
06-02-2015, 09:06 AM
#62
imo the c63 wont be a collectors car. the black series, perhaps. it will have a better chance than the normal c63.
for a car to be a collectors car it needs a few variables. being rare, unique or built with limited numbers is part of it.
someone mentioned the shelby cars, and some 10000 cars being built from '65-'70. but thats worldwide, and how many still exist today. plus it was from an era of cars that is widely acknowledged as being a golden age of cars.
i think in terms of modern day classics, especially european cars, from 2000 onwards, cars such as the b5 rs4 will become a classic, the e46 bmw m3 csl will definitely be one (some 1400 cars built worldwide), some of the 911 variants. the benz clk dtm. these are the type that will and have desirability
for a car to be a collectors car it needs a few variables. being rare, unique or built with limited numbers is part of it.
someone mentioned the shelby cars, and some 10000 cars being built from '65-'70. but thats worldwide, and how many still exist today. plus it was from an era of cars that is widely acknowledged as being a golden age of cars.
i think in terms of modern day classics, especially european cars, from 2000 onwards, cars such as the b5 rs4 will become a classic, the e46 bmw m3 csl will definitely be one (some 1400 cars built worldwide), some of the 911 variants. the benz clk dtm. these are the type that will and have desirability
06-02-2015, 10:24 AM
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C63 Edition 507
Most of what stated below, is what makes the 507 a collectable. I think we just passed the Golden Era of the fully powered N/A engines that are now being replaced by turbos. Look at what ALL the major car makers (Chevy, Ford, Dodge, etc) did when it comes to the v8s until the EPA law hit home. The 507 has collectability written all over it if you look at it this way (as car experts & journalist have written that they believe it will be).
The last edition that posses a N/A engine that even today's brand new pick-up trucks do not have the same large displacement (not even close- Ford is at best now a v6 4.2ltr on its 2016 Raptor, Chevy has something very similar on its Silverado). Ford and Chevy make smaller turbo charged engines in their trucks now....a car collector and even the normal guy with the lack of economic means will want a 507 or 6.2 v8 by these car makers that all are limited to building smaller displacements. The sound, the feel, will never be the same, sure the performance of the turbo lag etc will evidentially out perform the 507 and other N/A engines in the next 2-3 years. Though, I happy to already have out ran the C63s on PCH a week and 1/2 ago without even thumbs up from that dude the drove it (I guess he thought newer is better, lol, not always the case).
Not much moving forward will replace the same sound, joy, dynamics, and striaght-up brut that a free rev'ing N/A V8 6.2 liter engine can! Turbos are nice, but you'll be like every other car or truck driving around with a turbo in it. Not too mention, and please, if I am wrong, someone correct me- the BS and 507 (and maybe Edition 1) produce all its advertised power to the wheel that all the other previous C63 AMGs from the factory do not
The last edition that posses a N/A engine that even today's brand new pick-up trucks do not have the same large displacement (not even close- Ford is at best now a v6 4.2ltr on its 2016 Raptor, Chevy has something very similar on its Silverado). Ford and Chevy make smaller turbo charged engines in their trucks now....a car collector and even the normal guy with the lack of economic means will want a 507 or 6.2 v8 by these car makers that all are limited to building smaller displacements. The sound, the feel, will never be the same, sure the performance of the turbo lag etc will evidentially out perform the 507 and other N/A engines in the next 2-3 years. Though, I happy to already have out ran the C63s on PCH a week and 1/2 ago without even thumbs up from that dude the drove it (I guess he thought newer is better, lol, not always the case).
Not much moving forward will replace the same sound, joy, dynamics, and striaght-up brut that a free rev'ing N/A V8 6.2 liter engine can! Turbos are nice, but you'll be like every other car or truck driving around with a turbo in it. Not too mention, and please, if I am wrong, someone correct me- the BS and 507 (and maybe Edition 1) produce all its advertised power to the wheel that all the other previous C63 AMGs from the factory do not
imo the c63 wont be a collectors car. the black series, perhaps. it will have a better chance than the normal c63.
for a car to be a collectors car it needs a few variables. being rare, unique or built with limited numbers is part of it.
someone mentioned the shelby cars, and some 10000 cars being built from '65-'70. but thats worldwide, and how many still exist today. plus it was from an era of cars that is widely acknowledged as being a golden age of cars.
i think in terms of modern day classics, especially european cars, from 2000 onwards, cars such as the b5 rs4 will become a classic, the e46 bmw m3 csl will definitely be one (some 1400 cars built worldwide), some of the 911 variants. the benz clk dtm. these are the type that will and have desirability
for a car to be a collectors car it needs a few variables. being rare, unique or built with limited numbers is part of it.
someone mentioned the shelby cars, and some 10000 cars being built from '65-'70. but thats worldwide, and how many still exist today. plus it was from an era of cars that is widely acknowledged as being a golden age of cars.
i think in terms of modern day classics, especially european cars, from 2000 onwards, cars such as the b5 rs4 will become a classic, the e46 bmw m3 csl will definitely be one (some 1400 cars built worldwide), some of the 911 variants. the benz clk dtm. these are the type that will and have desirability
Last edited by Ronen; 06-02-2015 at 10:42 AM.
06-02-2015, 10:34 AM
#64
Most of what stated below, is what makes the 507 a collectable. I think we just passed the Golden Era of the fully powered N/A engines that are now being replaced by turbos. Look at what ALL the major car makers (Chevy, Ford, Dodge, etc) did when it comes to the v8s until the EPA law hit home. The 507 has collectability written all over it of you look at it this way (as a lot of car experts & journalist have written that they believe it will be). The last edition that was will have a N/A engine that even today's brand new pick-up trucks do not even have. Ford and Chevy make small turbo charged trucks now....a car collector and even the normal guy with the lack of economic means will want a 507 very badly in 5+ years from now. The sound, the feel, will never be the same, sure the performance of the turbo lag etc will evidentially out perform the 507 and other N/A engines in the next 2-3 years. Though, I happy to already have out ran the C63S on PCH a week and 1/2 ago without even thumbs up from the dude the drove it (I guess he thought newer is better, lol, not always the case)
Okay buddy the new c63s STOCK dynos 476 rwhp our cars make 410 is rwhp plus revised transmission + being lighter theres no way you outran him
also do you know what collectible means? 507 is not a collectible if anything is going to be a collectible it will be the m156 engine. Your way over your head buddy and your comment about your p31 maybe you just got a lemon LOL mine doesn't wait till it goes "over" the redline then shift and no the handling is the same i've taken both on mulholland it's just a placebo effect because your 507 is new and "rare"
06-02-2015, 10:48 AM
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C63 Edition 507
lol- only if you had a clue what you're talking about....try going to OE Tuning or Weistec and dyno a 507 and see what it really produces at the rear wheel. You'll be shocked that Mercedes actually produces what they back-up
Though, you are correct- the handling is the same- it for sure is the "placebo" of having the new feel of a new brand new car....the P31 I did have was a CPO, it was not lemon....lol- it is an awesome car, just not that extra (in every degree) that I wanted from it that the 507 has!
Though, you are correct- the handling is the same- it for sure is the "placebo" of having the new feel of a new brand new car....the P31 I did have was a CPO, it was not lemon....lol- it is an awesome car, just not that extra (in every degree) that I wanted from it that the 507 has!
Okay buddy the new c63s STOCK dynos 476 rwhp our cars make 410 is rwhp plus revised transmission + being lighter theres no way you outran him
also do you know what collectible means? 507 is not a collectible if anything is going to be a collectible it will be the m156 engine. Your way over your head buddy and your comment about your p31 maybe you just got a lemon LOL mine doesn't wait till it goes "over" the redline then shift and no the handling is the same i've taken both on mulholland it's just a placebo effect because your 507 is new and "rare"
also do you know what collectible means? 507 is not a collectible if anything is going to be a collectible it will be the m156 engine. Your way over your head buddy and your comment about your p31 maybe you just got a lemon LOL mine doesn't wait till it goes "over" the redline then shift and no the handling is the same i've taken both on mulholland it's just a placebo effect because your 507 is new and "rare"
Last edited by Ronen; 06-02-2015 at 10:58 AM.
06-02-2015, 10:50 AM
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C63 Edition 507
The 507 is the M159 in the m156- a much different engine than any other C63 built by AMG... you my sir are
Okay buddy the new c63s STOCK dynos 476 rwhp our cars make 410 is rwhp plus revised transmission + being lighter theres no way you outran him
also do you know what collectible means? 507 is not a collectible if anything is going to be a collectible it will be the m156 engine. Your way over your head buddy and your comment about your p31 maybe you just got a lemon LOL mine doesn't wait till it goes "over" the redline then shift and no the handling is the same i've taken both on mulholland it's just a placebo effect because your 507 is new and "rare"
also do you know what collectible means? 507 is not a collectible if anything is going to be a collectible it will be the m156 engine. Your way over your head buddy and your comment about your p31 maybe you just got a lemon LOL mine doesn't wait till it goes "over" the redline then shift and no the handling is the same i've taken both on mulholland it's just a placebo effect because your 507 is new and "rare"
06-02-2015, 11:00 AM
#67
06-02-2015, 11:56 AM
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C63 Edition 507
06-02-2015, 12:02 PM
#69
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the price difference from the 507 to the p31 came from the forged 19s, the hood and most importantly the larger brakes.
06-02-2015, 12:26 PM
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C63 Edition 507
Right, and don't forget the crankshaft as well that comes from the SLS or M159! Without a considerably lighter crankshaft like in the P61- the P31 cannot rev as violently as the P61 with this considerable weight reduction that is whipping around at crazy RPMs...its a considerable upgrade to P31 engine with the M159's crankshaft, piston & its connecting rods
http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA...dition_507.pdf
The potential (as long as your tires grip properly/have great tires, proper octane to the factory tune) truly improve the 0-60 times by 2/8ths (as stated by MB) in any conditions, if not quicker than the 2/8ths as I've experienced countless times and continue to do!
The p31 is a solid PP, but that p61 is something special!
Without a considerably lighter crankshaft like in the P61- the P31 cannot rev as violently as the P61 with this considerable weight reduction that is whipping around at crazy RPMs...its a considerable upgrade to P31 engine with the M159's crankshaft, piston & its connecting rods http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA...dition_507.pdf
The potential (as long as your tires grip properly/have great tires, proper octane to the factory tune) truly improve the 0-60 times by 2/8ths (as stated by MB) in any conditions, if not quicker than the 2/8ths as I've experienced countless times and continue to do!
The p31 is a solid PP, but that p61 is something special!
Last edited by Ronen; 06-02-2015 at 12:40 PM.
06-02-2015, 02:13 PM
#73
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Ronen, let it go. If you want to collect it, fine, but you'll be the only one. Everyone else that has an actual collectible is riding around in a BS. We are talking about a C-CLASS... An entry level MB with a big engine, yay. There are a ton of c63's out there. Yes, they are awesome cars which is why we love them, but your 507 isn't going to skyrocket in value because it has PP internals.
A 507 is a regular PP c63 with a slightly more aggressive tune and a sweet hood. Pretty much it.
As for you outrunning a w205 c63s.. I actually ran down an Aventador the other day, chit was weak. (In other words, you didn't or that car needed a driver mod because the new c63s is better in essentially every department that matters for track times)
A 507 is a regular PP c63 with a slightly more aggressive tune and a sweet hood. Pretty much it.
As for you outrunning a w205 c63s.. I actually ran down an Aventador the other day, chit was weak. (In other words, you didn't or that car needed a driver mod because the new c63s is better in essentially every department that matters for track times)
06-02-2015, 02:18 PM
#74
