Bardman

Hi there,

I have not seen much discussion on here about Supersprint headers + exhausts. Does anyone on here have them fitted and any comments?

Also, I'm a bit of an exhaust newb, so can someone help me out with each of these components and what role they play.

So this first one I know. The headers. These appear to be "long tube" in that they have quite a distance before the 4 merge into one. Does "long tube" result in less flow interruption and therefore less back pressure?



So this next part just looks like a connector pipe. One thing though, on the supersprint example here it has a bulge around the mid section. What does that do?



This next part here I really dont know what its called. Is that central box a catalytic converter? Or is it a resonator? Or something else? I notice some exhausts have these and some delete it.



The last bit is just the "muffler" and exhaust tips? Does the muffler do anything other than reduce the noise made or are there other things going on here as well?



Appreciate any help people can provide.

Petakii63

Those aren't long tubes. Those are mid length headers. True longtubes are benzworks or MHP. Supersprint is a great company. Can't go wrong with them.

Bardman

Ok, so I found this image on the forums.

Thats really helpful. The question I have is where it indicates primary cats on the standard exhaust, the supersprint headers do not appear to have anything visible here. Does this mean custom headers do not normally have a primary cat?

Petakii63

There is no primary cats on the supersprint. There is no room for them.

mikeyyyallday

how much power do you get out of these? and how much do they cost?

Manofsteelpt

Full set up from headers to exhaust is like $12k+ retail... Discounted, like $10k. I believe about 60hp.

Gardus

Long tube headers like these work separating the flow of the single cylinders, avoiding the return of pressure waves (backpressure) toward the other exhaust ports. Also, the increased section reduce the resistance to the passage of the gas, increasing the exit velocity of it.
The 63 AMG cars have really badly designe stock headers, with a log-type design and very small diameter outlets. Plus the cats are very restrictive:


To avoid possible failure on the 4into1 collectors the primary pipes are separated parts, plugged in the merging section, with a spring loaded flange that keeps sealing rings (made with graphite and pressed metallic mesh) pushed in to avoid leaks. This way the primaries can expand independently (because of the heat) without creating stress on the welds, which would cause cracks.


The bulge on the front pipes are 100 CPSI HJS cats, they'll get the emission down even if they replace the stock 4 cats. To avoid the Check Engine Light you'll need to either get a custom ECU tune with the secondary O2 sensors turned off or the "faulty cat" error blocked, or extend the O2 sensor wires and plug the sensor after the HJS cats.

The full system with headers, cats, centre x-pipe and mufflers costs around US$10.000 (list price, without shipping and taxes).
To Australia Supersprint sells and ships directly, you should contact them and ask for a quote, shipping won't be cheap but they offer big discounts on high value systems (like 30%). I guess you would pay around US$ 7.500 shipped, plus custom duties and GST.
The Edition 507 doesn't have the throttle limiter, with just the exhaust it should get +30-35hp of peak power at the crank without a custom ECU tune, 50-60 with it, but that's only half the story. You will get mid range torque and localized power gains even higher than that.

Bardman

Thanks guys - appreciate the feedback.

Bardman

It's an interesting point you make about a custom ecu tune, that pretty much what I was thinking. It's one thing to get headers and a generic tune, but unless that tune is specific to your exhaust it seems you would not be able to maximise the gains, and potentially create some strange behaviours. So, is that what most people do? Add a custom dyno based tune after they install their new exhaust?

The counter argument might be that the ecu is smart enough to adapt to the inputs it's receiving and therefore 'tune' itself or is that just not the case?

Gardus

It is smart enough to adjust, but the range of adjustment, while enough to guarantee the perfect working of the engine with the full system (unless you go catless, which may create issues withot a ECU tune), is not enough to take full advantage of the new exhaust.
Timing, A/F ratio, valve managament, rev limiter, speed limiter etc all all parameters that a specialist can alter to improve the performance.
A naturally aspirated engine like yours doesn't have the same power gain potential of a turbo one, where you can just increase boost pressure and fuel and get "easy power" but as it's a big engine it has potential.

I would speak with a dealer of the one most famous tune companies, the likes of PP Performance. They have a ton of experience with AMG and long tube headers and sport cats / decat pipes. Check if there is one close to you and if they have a dyno.

Bardman

Here's yet another full system from Capristo (although the headers seem quite short). Anyone heard of Capristo?

http://www.capristo.de/en/news/2014-...j-ab-2007.html

Seems like every man and his dog makes full exhausts for C63's.

On that site it also mentions that significant extra gains can be made with ECU tune with the exhaust.

Bardman

Thanks, actually have been discussing a little with the local partner of PP in Melbourne - Evolve Technik. Am planning on going to visit them soon.

For those interested, there are many brands of exhausts available for C63's in Australia (ie buy locally, not import yourself). So far I have seen (some full exhaust including headers, others just cat-back):

- IPE (full - valved)
- Supersprint (full)
- Capristo (full - valved)
- Milltek (cat back)
- Quicksilver (?)
- Armytrix (cat back - valved)
- Fi Exhaust (cat back - valved)
- Eisenmann (cat back)

Some are available on this site: http://www.bestexhaust.com.au, others through local dealers.

No doubt there are many more.

Petakii63

Longtube headers would require a tune, since they would set off a check engine light from deleting the primary cats.

Gardus

If you're looking for improved performance, go for long tube + sports cats or decat pipe + ecu tune, you may keep the stock muffler, Supersprint gives this possibility for example.
They can also provide a valved system, while it's not on their website, through their partnership with Leib Engineering.
They use a valve control connected through canbus, and you can switch the valve with the sport button on the dash.

PP is a good choice.

As for the way to get the parts, importing them by yourself is probably cheaper for some, especially Supersprint and other stuff from Europe, unless the dealer is very honest with its profit margin.

At Petakii63: not true. Sensor cheaters or sports cats + wire extensions are both valid solutions.

Petakii63

I'm talking about no primaries, with no tune. But there are loop holes to get around it. But, it would be less of a headache to just tune it and having it run optimal with the headers. Besides why would you wanna Half-*** it?

Jacob-63

I really dont know how and where this classification came from?

Supersprint Headers are indeed LONGTUBES. I have fitted them in three diffrent C63's. I have seen gains of 46 rwhp from just adding them alone.

I made a thread about two years ago installing a set of Supersprint Header+ Exhust on my own 2008 C63. The car dynoed 480ish rwhp on a dynojet. It was a mean animal.
Here is the link to that thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-2008-c63.html

Here is a video I recorded of it back then. Just hear how beautiful it sounded:

I have another 2012 C63 that I worked on that belongs to a friend of mine. This car also has Supersprint Headers + Exhust fitted with a stage 2 Weistec SC. The car dynoed 570 rwhp on 110 degrees F weather.
Here is the thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...o-results.html

The car is a complete street animal. It is putting no less power than other cars with similar mods fitted with diffrent headers, I can gurantee you that!

Petakii63

That's awesome. Still not a longtube since the collector is located before the final bend. I'm sure they are a great mid-length header. 👍

Jacob-63

And who classified a longtube header collecter should be before the final bend??

Mort

Check out the first post in the header thread for header type definitions. A long-tube header collector should be after the final bend.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...manifolds.html

Gardus

Well that's strange...the Gintani looks like a cheaper version of the Supersprint, without the spring loaded flanges, same geometry, and it's classified as a long tube and Try-Y (it's a 4 into 1, exacty like the Supersprint).

Either move the Gintani in the "medium length" category or the Supersprint in the "long" one.

How would you classify these (Supersprint for SLS)

glennhl

My first thought on the Supersprint headers were they were mid-length headers. But after closer examination, I'd call them either long mid-length or short long tube headers.

I'm sure you pick up a good power increase with these, but I'm betting the MHP long tubes have a fatter torque curve.

Petakii63

Both gintani and ss headers for the c63 are mid-length.

Those sls headers are wild. But, judging from the pic they look like full length.

Gardus

Well the SLS chassis is different, with the engine lower and closer to the centre of the car, but these arrive much further back than all the C63 ones.
They require a custom ECU tune to work properly.

Anyway, the "length classification" is just to simplify things, it's not official or anything, so who cares?

It would be interesting to get the same car and test 2-3 sets of headers in the same exact conditions.

Petakii63

This has been talked about before. To test different headers on one car, would cost a lot of time and money and would be a hassle, to do in one day of work.

I would imagine they would able be within the same power range, but they might have different power curves.

To be honest, ANY type of header would be better than the stock Mickey Mouse manifolds. Just pick your poison and you'll make power regardless of what you go with. The real argument is the quality. And, the supersprint header has the bar set extremely high in terms of quality. As, does mbh, benzworks and mhp.

Bazman

Supersprint are made in Italy by the same firm that makes the F1 headers for Ferrari. They are the benchmark. This is my first choice but I need to find out re fit on right hand drive as I do not want clearance issues either in fit or ground clearance problems.

If I could gain 46rwhp from a full system I'd be very happy - but on a 507 that is unlikely. I'm hoping a 50-60rwhp gain from full Supersprint system (Headers to tailpipe) with tune and filters is possible.

IPE and Agency Power headers are basically the same according to my source - different brands, same factory in Asia. Both look great and both fit right hand drive or left. My only issue with them is that my tuner only found 15rwhp with a full system. I'm not paying good money to gain only 15rwhp, no matter how good the sound. Be interested to see if others found a lot more power than that. Might have been a bad set - but they looked good.