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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Shell Rotella T6 New Formulation
Somehow, I inexplicably ran out of M1 0W-40, so decided that today was as good a day as any to make the changeover to Shell Rotella T6 5W-40. Went to my local Autozone, and was greeted by this sight:
Uhhhhh... those say the same thing but look different. Checked the dates on the bottles, and on the right are 2015-16, and on the left were 2017. Ok. So did a quick Google machine search, and it turns out that Shell changed the bottle design AND the formulation in order to meet the newest API diesel standard CK-4. They also no longer claim that it meets any of the API gasoline standards.
So I bought every old formulation gallon jug they had left (6).
Still researching what this means exactly - if it still has the same additive and anti-wear package that made the previous formulation so good, if they reduced the levels of anti-wear additives, whether the gasoline certification was withdrawn for emission purposes (too much phosphorous), if the new formulation is even better - just don't know yet.
Not as much info on BITOG as I thought there would be with its popularity. I did find the following on a sport bike forum, which puts me more at ease:
I may have found the reason why T6 no longer meets the gasoline engine standards. The API S standards include a maximum phosphorus limit to protect catalytic converters, but diesel oils usually have higher levels to improve engine protection.
There was a provision in the previous diesel standards to allow these oils to meet the S standards despite this. But now, the oil must meet all of the standard, so oils with high phosphorus will not carry S standard approval.
This is just a technicality, so it looks like there's nothing to worry about and you can use the improved T6.
Here is the full text:
“In order for a diesel engine oil to claim an ‘S’ category, it must now meet all of the gasoline category’s criteria, including the limit on phosphorous levels,” Negri continues. “Phosphorous has long demonstrated proven protective qualities versus ashless chemistries in diesel engines, but has also been known to shorten the life of automotive catalyst systems in gasoline engines. This means that diesel engine oil must be below 0.08% phosphorous to claim an ‘S’ category approval [the CJ-4 specification allows up to 0.12% phosphorous].”
The loophole that allows higher phosphorous levels from diesel engine oils when used in gasoline engines will be effectively closed. In practical terms, this will create a clear line in the sand between diesel-only formulations (“high phosphorous”) and universal oils (“low phosphorous”).
Don't know how accurate that is, but until I see some VOA/UOA's on the new formulation, I'd advise anyone to ****** up the old jugs if you use this oil.
Great find! Interesting too. They replaced the magnesium with more calcium it seems. Ones a dispersant (Mg) and the other is a detergent (Ca). Ca is more commonly used, as Mg requires more frequent change intervals or it becomes abrasive.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Here are a couple good posts from BITOG that explain categories of additives and what they do. Trying to learn up on the analysis. Sending 3 bottles to Blackstone tomorrow.
Car took 2.5gal of T6 last night. 44O increases capacity on changes by 2-3qt.
2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
Here is a UOA of Shell Rotella T6 API CJ-4 /SM that I did in January. The VOA numbers are in the top row and the T6 in the 2nd row. Note there is water and fuel in the oil. Not sure if it from the car sitting for 4 months before changing the oil or too many short trips although most of my drives are for 1/2 hour at least.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by Mort
Here is a UOA of Shell Rotella T6 API CJ-4 /SM that I did in January. The VOA numbers are in the top row and the T6 in the 2nd row. Note there is water and fuel in the oil. Not sure if it from the car sitting for 4 months before changing the oil or too many short trips although most of my drives are for 1/2 hour at least.
Different engine, but I ran Rotella religiously in my WRX and STI. My STI got to 100,000 miles without burning oil, rare for Subarus, and every oil test came back with flying colors. I think Rotella is an underused performance oil.
The new version still looks plenty stout for track use. I personally avoid using oil with more than a tiny amount of magnesium so T6 now having 1,300%+ less Mg than the old formulation is a good thing IMO. It seems to me (in general) that very good UOA results follow the formula of M1/Pennzoil (and many others), i.e. with decent levels of zinc and phosphorous, lots of calcium, a good shot of boron and 60-90ppm of moly. Obviously, not to the exclusion of other approaches.
2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
Originally Posted by BLKROKT
Nice Mort
The other 2 samples look like Mobil 1?
What are your thoughts so far with the T6?
Thanks BLKROKT.
The first sample (bottom row) is Mobil 1 0W40 and the second sample is MB oil 229.5 5W40 (also Shell?). The viscosity in the MB 229.5 looks a little more stable than the M1 or T6 but it also looks like I took it on longer drives and warmed it up for longer periods as there is no water or fuel in it. The wear metals are definitely showing improvement with the Shell T6 in spite of the water and fuel showing in the sample.
I like the T6 so far and refilled with it but which T6 formulation I am not sure. The jug said 02Nov2016 so maybe it has the new formulation but the old label API CJ-4/SM as the new label was not being changed until Dec. 1 2016. I think that is what it said in the link. The new formulation looks fine to me anyway. I will do another UOA mid season and will post it up at that time. I do like the way the engine feels on the T6 and no tapping after the car has been sitting for a while. That makes me feel better about the cams and tappets.
Does the lack of API rating for gasoline engines on the new T6 mean anything to you guys that use this oil in the M156? Is it solely an emissions-related issue? It only looks to be maybe 20% more robust in the zinc/phosphorous department than the usual good SN-rated Euro 5W-40 alternatives but perhaps there is a cutoff number for that raring. I've seen some VOAs on those that get reasonably close to T6 in ppm's.
2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
Personally I am out of warranty so I don't need to run a 229.5 approved oil for the lone sake of running one for warranty acceptance. The API gasoline rating was removed for the amount of phosphorus in the blend and while that makes it a more robust oil it no longer qualifies for the SM or SN gasoline rating, if you believe the posts and links above. For me the Shell Rotella T6 is a sound product that is easy for me to get and available at a cheaper price point. If the Euro 5w40s were easier to locate and cheaper to buy then I would consider them. I do still run MB 229.5 5W40, from the dealer in our 2015 GLA 250.
^ Forgot about BLKROKT's links posted above. Having digested them now they just underscore how much boils down to personal preferences and beliefs. The facts rarely support absolutes.
Just remember that Shell has admitted they placed CK-4 oils into CJ-4 bottles during the transition period rather than to throw away all those containers.
There is no telling which API you have in the CJ-4 bottle without lab testing...if I understand this topic correctly.
______________
Shell admitted doing this beginning in August 2016, in case you want to look at dates on bottles.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Good find. So that means some of the old bottles have the new formulation I guess? Won't know for sure what I got until I get my current oil tested next month. Engine really seems to like it so far.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by AMG3.2
Same.
FYI when I recently made the switch to the Rotella T6, I added 1.5 bottles of the MOS2 to get closer to the recommended treatment dose of one bottle per 6L of oil. Car feels and sounds great so far.
FYI when I recently made the switch to the Rotella T6, I added 1.5 bottles of the MOS2 to get closer to the recommended treatment dose of one bottle per 6L of oil. Car feels and sounds great so far.
Ugh. Yeah, when I read that, I realized I'd be a bit low, but only had one bottle on me when I did the oil change a few days ago. I'll just add a half bottle, and remove some oil to bring the level back down. The engine does seem quieter, especially at start up.
06-17-2017, 08:30 PM
Having digested them now they just underscore how much boils down to personal preferences and beliefs. The facts rarely support absolutes.
