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501whp @ 6600rpm - yeah baby!

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501whp @ 6600rpm - yeah baby!

 
Old 03-26-2018, 04:58 AM
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W212 - E63 AMG
501whp @ 6600rpm - yeah baby!

So finally got my car dialled in at the dyno over the weekend (ok not 100% dialled in because the dyno stopped working after a couple of hours and I couldn't make any further changes, so there will be a bit more to come soon).

Mods of relevance to the figures (I know they're in my sig, but if I move on from MB World, it's better to have them here for archiving):
  • DPE headers - decat - 3" straight pipes (sounds really rubbish)
  • Kleemann cams
  • M159 lifters
  • K&N air filters
  • 82mm throttle bodies with velocity stacks
  • Copper plugs 1.2mm gap
  • 7kg 2-piece lighter rear rotors
  • HP Tuners Celicasaur custom tune
I'm not looking to get into an argument about SAE corrected this or blah blah I cheated. If anybody wants to cry foul-play - do it. What's more important to me is 1) the fact that the car made bags more torque and horsepower than the previous EC V6 tune 2) the fact that it's quite eventful me now at WOT 1st and 2nd gear on the street (if it hooks!) and 3) my 60-80mph is 1.7 seconds now whereas before it was 2.1 seconds and also 40-60mph is 1.5-1.6 seconds vs 1.9 previously. Feel free to correct the numbers and round them down if need be, but bear in mind that this was on a Dyno Dynamics and not a Dynojet. No matter how you want to look at it/correct it (yes air temps were favourable, but humidity was a bit meh), the before/after is what makes the seat of the pants feel so good when driving it.




Nearly all of my gains came from VVT tuning. The car managed a best of 494 @ 24 degree's of ignition timing. The 501 run was running 28.5 at peak power, so I was a little surprised/disappointed that it only picked up another 5hp....but there you go. I wanted to try another run with 29.5 and then 30, but the dyno broke down and we couldn't do any more. Pity, as I wanted to also test the airbox that I'd made. FYI this was on UK super unleaded Shell V Power 98 RON (93AKI equivalent)

I feel as though torque limiters might be at work here. Either that or it needs a bit of time to adapt and allow more power to get to the ground. The guy said I can come back for one more run for free, so I'll maybe do that when the tune has 'settled' a little. AFR on the dyno was a nice 12.8-12.9 up top, but later that night it was running a little too lean for my liking, so I'll need to keep an eye on that for the moment.

Very soon I'm going to get my TCU tuned and have the torque limiters raised (along with another mod which I'm sure I'm going to regret). I'm very confident that there's a good amount more NA power to come.

However it's a little bitter-sweet though...it's faster and more dramatic now on the street...but still not quite what I'm looking for. I guess there's only so much that the NA M156 motor can push a big heavy W212 with pan roof, 19" wheels etc. Maybe in a year, I might join the supercharged guys. The easier option would be to do what I probably should have done a year and a half ago and just swap it over for a twin-turbo E63, but I'm an NA fanboy, so......

But hey, for now at least - I'm very happy with the improvement vs the previous tune and I can sleep a little easier at night.
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:35 AM
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nice work! don't swap to the M157! keep it NA or throw a blower on it. while the M157 swap would be quite rare (I think there was one C63 BS that did a M157/4matic swap), the last of the NA V8s is something to be cherished. you can't beat the sound of the M156 IMO, at least as far as MB V8 motors are concerned (that 7.3 V12 in the Zonda...o man!).
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:19 AM
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Nice work dude. I donít think anyone is going to sht on your numbers because of how data-driven you are with logging changes etc rather than doing one-off overcorrected glory pulls like too many of the clowns around here.

Tell us more about the VVT tuning? You said nearly all gains came from it. What are we talking about here in HP roughly, 20? If you got a good base file dialed in that other people could use, it might make moving to HPTuners a little less daunting for some of us, just sayin.... What else are you finding to play around with in the software?
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:41 AM
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Great numbers and feedback. Looking forward to hearing more about how easy HP tuners is to use. I ordered a Ballenger afr500 for my z06 and I'm ordering Hp tuners pro.

Can you datalog with HP on the benz using the handheld?
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Old 03-26-2018, 09:31 AM
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Awesome results buddy! It's crazy how 24 is the sweet spot but I'm sure there is more in it with race gas.

Those cams are pulling hard all the way to 8k!!!
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:29 AM
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Killer numbers man! Congrats.

Last edited by Doc Oc; 03-26-2018 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:12 PM
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Awesome to see things are working out with all you've done, especially with integrating the cams into the mix. Great stuff C...
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post
Nice work dude. I donít think anyone is going to sht on your numbers because of how data-driven you are with logging changes etc rather than doing one-off overcorrected glory pulls like too many of the clowns around here.

Tell us more about the VVT tuning? You said nearly all gains came from it. What are we talking about here in HP roughly, 20? If you got a good base file dialed in that other people could use, it might make moving to HPTuners a little less daunting for some of us, just sayin.... What else are you finding to play around with in the software?
he has kleeman cams so any vvt will have a greater effect than a stock motor
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:33 PM
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What exact spark plugs are you running?
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Old 03-26-2018, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisridebike8 View Post
nice work! don't swap to the M157! keep it NA or throw a blower on it. while the M157 swap would be quite rare (I think there was one C63 BS that did a M157/4matic swap), the last of the NA V8s is something to be cherished. you can't beat the sound of the M156 IMO, at least as far as MB V8 motors are concerned (that 7.3 V12 in the Zonda...o man!).
Ahhh this is very true. It's just Gzim keeps posting epic clips of his car and they make me greedy. hehe, ok but no realistically, my goal has always been to have something like what Mthis has - a low 11/high 10 second NA car (my favourite 63 series car -
). I think i should be able to at some point this summer, maybe in the next 3 months. But if that doesn't happen, who knows. At least I was able to prove that the EC V6 tune and the previous V5 were lack lustre attempts at tuning a car which required a bit more love than just a bog standard flash

Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post
Nice work dude. I donít think anyone is going to sht on your numbers because of how data-driven you are with logging changes etc rather than doing one-off overcorrected glory pulls like too many of the clowns around here.

Tell us more about the VVT tuning? You said nearly all gains came from it. What are we talking about here in HP roughly, 20? If you got a good base file dialed in that other people could use, it might make moving to HPTuners a little less daunting for some of us, just sayin.... What else are you finding to play around with in the software?
We are talking like, near enough all of the gains man. TBH I'm running ignition close to stock on the bottom end of the powerband because although I live in London where it's more or less flat all the time, if I venture out onto highways which have big inclines and my car is loaded with weight, I don't want to then be inadvertently running 'too much' timing for a daily driver. So therefore everything you see up until around 4500 or so, is just VVT (amazing, right?) That being said, I've run it with an even stronger low end (ie, with added timing). It was pretty violent in first gear to get off the line at anything more than 1/3 throttle (i'm not exaggerating either) and it felt like driving a BMW M car (which is a huge compliment - throttle response was just delicious tbfh), but the trade off in 'worrying' about inclines and vehicle weight with high timing....urgh, I just decided to leave it.

Up top, as I said in the opening post, I managed to get it up to 494. Then I was all excited thinking I'll bring it on home with 5 degree's of timing (prior tested on the street many times, lol don't worry i didn't just shout shazam and add 5 degree's) and it gained....well, not much at all.

But check this...on a VVT setting that's far from optimal and makes less power, the ignition timing has a profound effect (as you'd expect). This is why I think torque limiters are a factor. I have some doubts as to whether I can do much about them via HP Tuners, but I will continue to fettle no doubt. I'll be starting to tune M156's here (each car custom tuned) and take it from there, so this wont be the last time you'll see me posting numbers. I think for the ultimate tune, it would need to be with the same software that Weistec use, as those guys are able to do VVT and presumably torque limiters too?

As Gzim said, my tune is very specific to my set up and it is completely different to stock. The EC V7 tune makes use of VVT tuning, but we've had some users report next to nothing in terms of gains...while some say it's amazing. I'll only have a VVT tune that might make sense once I tune some M156s in the UK on the stock cams. For some reason, I have a feeling that I'll be able to make the same sort of power...we'll see. But call it a hunch for the moment. The licence cost really sucks, but I've been wanting to delve into tuning cars for years, so I'll just suck it up and see what happens. Watch this space.

Other things in the software, the higher rev limit as you've seen on my dyno plot, although it occasionally hits a limp mode, so I haven't got that one figured out 110%. You can also add as many pops and bangs to your hearts content, but I'm 35 and not a virgin, so I actually removed all pops and bangs that come as a result of deliberately asking the injectors to stay open. You can also do things like enabling that dessert-mode you spoke of the other day for the rad fans etc


Originally Posted by ritalin View Post
Great numbers and feedback. Looking forward to hearing more about how easy HP tuners is to use. I ordered a Ballenger afr500 for my z06 and I'm ordering Hp tuners pro.

Can you datalog with HP on the benz using the handheld?
Honestly, I think it could have been handsomely more simpler to use and if this was like an AEM or Apexi tuning device, I'd have had this cracked in weeks. What took so long was working out what the hell everything does and why certain parameters exist. For how great the numbers and final result is on my car, there were many nights out late at night, many tanks of fuel, redline pulls, near death moments and frustrating times that made me want to give up entirely. Biggest snag I had for ages was getting my commanded ignition timing to work. HP Tuners has it's own interface of what the factory PCM wants input on. It's not straightforward at the best of times and I actually 'started fresh' several times over. The interface and operation for tuning the Z06 (amazing car btw) might well be 10x easier than this particular one.

Which handheld are you referring to...? I have the VCM Pro, but I think the normal one allows you to datalog also. It's a very good datalogger tbh, although many things didn't work for me. Lol i swear my car is cursed.

Originally Posted by skratch77 View Post
Awesome results buddy! It's crazy how 24 is the sweet spot but I'm sure there is more in it with race gas.

Those cams are pulling hard all the way to 8k!!!
Thanks man But no nooooo 24 is 100% not the sweet spot. If 24 is the sweet spot, then I'd need to be knocking to the point of piston damage at even 28 degree's.

And hell yeah, the damn thing just moves man! I timed a random pull after work today of 40-60 and it came in at 1.3 seconds....I'd hate to imagine how quick this would be on a W204 if it's not the peak gain, it's the fact that the top end is so peaky now....reminds me of a VTEC cam coming in or something.

Originally Posted by Doc Oc View Post
Killer numbers man! Congrats.
Originally Posted by bhamg View Post
Awesome to see things are working out with all you've done, especially with integrating the cams into the mix. Great stuff C...
Thanks guys...it's been a long journey. I'm pretty sure that all of the mean comments following the cam install were a nice driving force though

Originally Posted by skratch77 View Post
What exact spark plugs are you running?
I can't remember off the top of my head right now, but I'm sure I noted them down in your thread about ignition coils.
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:32 PM
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Congrats Celicasaur. Awesome numbers.
My car is also tuned with HPtuners, and we also got great gains from playing with the VVT.
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:17 PM
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killer numbers mate
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Old 03-27-2018, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Savage-wp View Post
Congrats Celicasaur. Awesome numbers.
My car is also tuned with HPtuners, and we also got great gains from playing with the VVT.
Thanks man. Were the gains similar to mine through the rev range?

Do you find that fuel economy is (understandably) a little worse off now? Looks like I'm around 1-1.5mpg worse off on average on my way to work (which is a 5-6 mile drive over 20 minutes)

Originally Posted by mr747 View Post
killer numbers mate
Thank you sir (and thanks once again for helping with those DPE headers man - you're too kind)
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:31 AM
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We need to start an hptuners thread here and put all the info and testing in there to help build a self tuner base.

I have a few questions.

1 can you just load an hp tune over a current tune on the ECU and what happens if you want to go back to your old tunes? Can you just plug in your old hand held and go as usual or do you lose that and start fresh.

2 can you keep all emissions monitors working to pass all smog tests?

3 can you get the Tb to open 100%

4 can you adjust throttle input sensitivity

I'm open to testing and putting up my files for free and I think you have a good base file to start with.
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:56 AM
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If its power and dyno numbers you're after then the M157 is a no brainer...
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by OCDUEUCE View Post
If its power and dyno numbers you're after then the M157 is a no brainer...
my guess is he wants something unique that sounds amazing with a linear powerband. I personally don't like turbo cars that much, but to each his own.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by skratch77 View Post
We need to start an hptuners thread here and put all the info and testing in there to help build a self tuner base.

I have a few questions.

1 can you just load an hp tune over a current tune on the ECU and what happens if you want to go back to your old tunes? Can you just plug in your old hand held and go as usual or do you lose that and start fresh.

2 can you keep all emissions monitors working to pass all smog tests?

3 can you get the Tb to open 100%

4 can you adjust throttle input sensitivity

I'm open to testing and putting up my files for free and I think you have a good base file to start with.
1) Yeah no, life isn't that kind. If that was the case, everyone would end up ripping everyone off...
You have to start from a stock file of your MY. So if you have a PFL C63, yep, you'll be starting from the base 457hp file.
2) Emissions yeah sure, that's all in the tune tbh
3) Yes you can, but honestly, apart from a bit of a sharper initial opening feel down low, it doesn't actually ingest more air. I got all excited at first thinking that I was going to unlock a million horsepowers.... I didn't
4) Yes you can

Originally Posted by OCDUEUCE View Post
If its power and dyno numbers you're after then the M157 is a no brainer...
I couldn't agree more.

But then I'd have a turbo car....might as well buy an M5 at that point if that's all I want...

Originally Posted by chrisridebike8 View Post
my guess is he wants something unique that sounds amazing with a linear powerband. I personally don't like turbo cars that much, but to each his own.
This ^

I'll get there.....give me a few months...
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Celicasaur View Post
Thanks man. Were the gains similar to mine through the rev range?

Do you find that fuel economy is (understandably) a little worse off now? Looks like I'm around 1-1.5mpg worse off on average on my way to work (which is a 5-6 mile drive over 20 minutes)
I will dig up my Dyno graph, but I remember I also had huge gains in torque from low down and through the mud range.
My after power line was also higher right throughout the Rev range.
And yeah, I'm probably using a bit more fuel now.
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:59 AM
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What kind of AFR's are you running at WOT?
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Savage-wp View Post
I will dig up my Dyno graph, but I remember I also had huge gains in torque from low down and through the mud range.
My after power line was also higher right throughout the Rev range.
And yeah, I'm probably using a bit more fuel now.
Great stuff man. The extra low end is so nice and spooks me out when i forget about it and dab the throttle in 2nd, coming off a roundabout.

I've started working on my fuel trims....hoping that'll keep the power but also not punish me on fuel economy at the same time even when driving gently.

Originally Posted by Vladds View Post
What kind of AFR's are you running at WOT?
~13.2 and then down to ~12.8
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:52 AM
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And you used the on board widebands for tuning ?
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:59 PM
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Amazing stuff
i haven't been playing with my c recently as I've been busy with a track
post however has me back interested in it
you use HPtuners is even more intesting as I have access to it just need to buy the credits
did you do all this yourself or did someone else do the tuning?
im also in the uk and not far outside London and I use vbox for data logging if you're,around could do some runs

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Old 03-28-2018, 01:40 PM
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Good numbers bro, and we all know you will get better. How much did you spend total on the HP tuner stuff?

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Old 03-29-2018, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Vladds View Post
And you used the on board widebands for tuning ?
Indeed sir. On my earlier dyno sessions (this wasn't my first time at the dyno) we used to run the widebands, but they would (understandably) run ever so slightly leaner), so I just scrapped them and relied on the oem ones seeing as they are about 7 or 8 months old.

Originally Posted by Brunty88 View Post
Amazing stuff
i haven't been playing with my c recently as I've been busy with a track
post however has me back interested in it
you use HPtuners is even more intesting as I have access to it just need to buy the credits
did you do all this yourself or did someone else do the tuning?
im also in the uk and not far outside London and I use vbox for data logging if you're,around could do some runs
Cheers bud, yeah no I tuned it myself. I think after having had a few EC attempts, I've lost faith in other 'tuners'

Some runs could be fun (when Summer decides to finally bless us)

What would be interesting though is to run a W204 that I end up tuning. I have somebody local ready and waiting. I think my W212 would be a bit too heavy to make a relevant comparison against an FBO W204 I'll give you a shout

Originally Posted by Infiniti View Post
Good numbers bro, and we all know you will get better. How much did you spend total on the HP tuner stuff?
Thanks man

I spent....i think it was like $550USD for the main tuner version and then another $400 because I was half asleep when I made the purchase and ordered it with the wrong type of credits. Extremely painful mistake to make because they do not issue refunds or returns of any type. If you make an error on the credits with the initial purchase, you're stuck with them. So I have 8 surplus credits for tuning Dodge cars which I'll never use because we don't even get them in this country

Oh and the hidden cost of lots and lots of fuel.....I think from December to Feb, I averaged around £500GBP a month....ouch. I'm now back to my normal £350+ or so.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:06 AM
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When I ordered my HP Tuners they actually end suffested I order Dodge credits because there system recognizes Mercedes the same way as you ha e no way to order Mercedes specifically.

I canít wait to get my car tuned with it, Iím having a friend of mine who is a fairly well known tuner in the import scene tune the AMG. Iíll be sure to share my results on here.
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