Vladds

As I was watching the other day a BMW video oin youtube, the guy complained that in US nobody at the dealer seems to be competent enough to look for and apply software updates to the cars, as they reach the dealer. He said that this is totally different in Europe, that cars get updates EVERY time they get to the dealer.
I have specifically asked for updates the two times my car has gotten to the dealer.
One dealer wanted to charge me $300 to scan for updates, the other avoided the subject all together.
Do you guys see the same thing?
I wanted to bring this up in a chat session at the AMG Lounge, maybe see some movement in this sector.

Mort

I got basically the same response from our dealer in Saint John NB. The MB Canada service reps were visiting so I asked about software updates. They went straight into paranoid mode and got really defensive. Needless to say the conversation didn't go far except for them to say, off the cuff, that there were no updates available. It will be interesting to see what response you get, if any, on the PL.

MBNRG

Good question, Vladds. Have often wondered the same myself, but the concern for a U.S. Dealership screwing something up during update process always outweighed any benefit, for me at least.
I had been interested in a possible MB update that could optimize the MCT 722.9 Trans to prevent excessive heat buildup & sloppy/slow shifts under sustained loads.
In correspondence with member ColinAMG, he had previously informed me of a Software update for the Trans, that Dealer applied to his FL 2013:

"code for the trans S/W update is 0009024421. It was a free update at the dealer. They cannot comment on what the changes were, but from other sources I was told it raises the trans temp threshold so it will not go into limp mode prematurely.
This trans s/w is standard sometime in 2013 model year and later. The dealer will install it for free if you complain about trans temps."

Vladds

Look, I'll see when the next live chat session is and if anybody wants to join me in the session, it'll serve to drive home the point that there's a problem with this.
I believe that the chat is monitored by Mercedes decision makers and an outcome is possible.

Other than this, yes, not even only the dealers, but I've asked for help from Mercedes technicians on the forum, in my quest to fully understand the interaction between the factory software Xentry and the car.
And even they were afraid that something could get screwed up and advised me to stop trying to use the software on the car. Which I did not, I continued to try all the functions.
It's a bad culture, maybe a culture of people afraid of today's IT component in automotive troubleshooting.
If you screw up, you troubleshoot the software issue and you move on. Maybe hire an IT guy at the dealership and train him/her in Stuttgart.
It's like in the early 90's where people thought twice about installing a new software on their machine because what if the machine becomes bricked and needs to go in the garbage.

bobbyo1123

I found that Navigation system updates are free for the first 3 years from date of purchase/lease. I also believe that if you don't ask for it, I'm not sure they would check/perform during an A or B service visit. I proactively asked for them to check and update the Nav. software during my last visit (3rd year into warranty). By the way, there is a 2018/2019 map upgrade out there right now. Not sure about ECM updates.

Vladds

Yes, there's a map update that MB sent me a coupon for for $200. I asked on the Lounge live chat if the voice control engine has any improvements included in the update, they told me no. I would pay the $200 for the update, but want the woman voice to stop asking me "are you sure?" that drives me crazy...

Vladds

I got to meet the AMG technician at one of Long Island's biggest dealers, we had a chat and he said that they update the software on their personal cars.
I got a promise that my software will be updated and told to expect around two updates to the ECU, 2 to the TCU and lots of them to the traction/stabillity control. Supposedly those are the most noticeable ones.

I told him that I retrofitted the car to OEM reverse camera, with OEM harness and modulator and want the car coded as retrofit, so that when the vin number is run, from now on this becomes a reverse camera car. He said no problem.
Maybe it's a matter of finding the right person.
in 2 weeks or less, I plan to do this.

I'm going to bring up the ROW issue as well. Maybe I can get ROW installed and then have him code my car accordingly, so that the ROW becomes native to the car. I don't have high hopes there, because this is somehow ... against company policy, but let's see.

Vladds

Got the airbag recall done, went to this dealer but dealt with the service advisor. I ended up paying $200 to get the car scanned for updates and was told nothing was found.
I'm not worried about having spent the money, but not willing to accept that there are no updates, per the service advisor.
I'm going to look for a way to escalate this, maybe ask on the private lounge.

roadtalontsi

Updates are only paid for by warranty if there is a complaint and that is the remedy. The scan tool Xentry doesn't tell you what has updates. You have to go into each individual module and check. Also from there the updates pretty much never tell you what they are changing, fixing or making adjustments to or for. The audio system may tell you why on occasion but usually they don't. The only other time you have a clue what the updates do is when they are part of LI document for a repair remedy (TSB) . When I was at the dealer I did software updates non stop. When a vehicle has a stored intermittent fault and every thing checks out / tests good, All i could do was assume it was an programming / software issue. 90% of the time in those circumstances it was. Almost every new car the threshold tolerances were too tight for some emissions system and the updates would loosen them up so they didn't throw faults regularly. Software updates on these cars are all straight forward and stable. Warranty at one point actually released a statement to the technicians to stop doing software updates unless instructed to do so by the diagnostic software or a bulletin. Sadly whenever chasing an issue I could talk to me local tech rep or the technical assistance hotline and they would usually already know about the problem and that it is software related. From there they would send you a patch file because they hadn't officially released the bulletin or software to their mainframe yet. At times it's definitely a **** show. As far as software updates go the only finicky ones are the audio system sometimes, but almost always the instrument clusters. Some of the instrument cluster updates took 6 hrs, then the cluster would crash afterwards. If it wasn't bricked, It would be in bootloader mode and require a special file to bring it back from stupidity and start the process all over again. In addition, it would tie up your bay all day. In return they would pay you .5hr for your time. Thanks MB warranty. At this point in time the newest 204 is 5 yrs out of production. If you have had your vehicle updated somewhat recently, don't expect anything new to come out. M156 has been out for over a decade, the oem tuning is as dialed in as it's going to get. The transmission has been out since 2003, 7 speeds are almost all phased out now. Once again don't expect any new updates for that either. Typically end of the run cars won't need much for software updates. It's likely most 14-15 cars have it already.

If you go into a dealer and request for updated software expect to pay, but It would silly for them to straight up decline doing it. At the same time, if you aren't having any issues, somethings are just better left alone.

Vladds

Thanks for detailing how things look like, as far as updates, from the shop standpoint.


As I have explained, let me repeat, paying for the time of the tech to scan a system for updates was and is not the problem here.
Therefore updates being not done free out of warranty, is also not the problem here.
Them charging to check and update, also not.

What the problem is, is that paying does not seem to be enough to get these to come out.

And no, my car is not a 2014, it's a 2010.
And I didn't ask as a blanket "update everything", I asked for engine, transmission and traction control.
I know that Xentry won't tell me if there are updates, well not mine anyway, because as soon as it would log into the German servers, they would black list it.
It does have a section that could in theory search for an update, for a given module.

I have heard of the state of things that you mention, namely there are individual files available from senior techs, to handle specific problems, as part of troubleshooting.
Also what you write stands to reason, namely that these in many cases loosen restrictions, to get rid of unwarranted warning and error messages, I get that.

My car had no updates ever, according to the master vehicle inquiry.

Honestly, I was hoping for a transmission update and a traction control update.

But there are two communities, I think:
The shop management community, that as soon as you ask for an update asks you what are you trying to fix and looks at you like you're a Martian.
I think that This is because they are afraid that they may underestimate the labor and face a potential system bricking and lose out on the bill. Too much responsibility, very little profit.

To upper management, potential liability if something goes wrong. What if you have to give the customer a brand new module, on the shops dime, because you bricked it during update. Better to state that there ARE NO updates available.


The shop enthusiast employees community (of which I was fortunate enough to meet a tech but then could not find where I had saved his info), who on their own time and responsibility, look for these, find them and try them.
My mistake is that I did not understand that I need to fly under the managements radar and do my best to contact the tech I had spoken to and see if this would go through.

roadtalontsi

Nailed it. It's all about shop politics and finding the right guy who does this because they love the cars rather than only a paycheck.