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12 C63BS Magno Alanite Grey, 25 X5 Msport, 08 BMW E93, Ducati Hyper 698
Thoughts on my cam wear
I know another thread, they are not too bad, but had the drivers cover off today for a leak, overall cams look decent but some wear starting to happen on the tips.
2014 507 only 38k miles, get the odd cold start tick when it sits, ceratec and liquid moly seemed ot have helped with that. Had the car 18 months, first year never had a tick, then had it 2 times after sitting for 2 weeks each time and haven't had it again since adding ceratec and liquid moly.
The lobe wear looks "normal" from what I've seen. After two weeks, I'm not surprised you heard the ticking. Keep an eye on it and if it becomes regular, take it in. You probably don't have anything to worry about for a while, but when the lifters fail/collapse, they stop spinning so the lobes hit the same spot on the lifter each time, causing the premature wear on the lobes.
I had the ticking and it turns out all my lifters had collapsed and I had wear on my lobes, similar to yours. To play it safe, I had all 32 lifters, all cams and adjusters replaced; mind you my car only has 42K miles. What would have cost me 11K ended up being $4500, thanks to my warranty, which I HIGHLY recommend. Pretty common issue (defect) that many of these cars have. Good luck and nice ride!
Yeah I'm going to start using those additives too, as well as oil changes at 5k tops. Such a shame the class action suit on this issue was thrown out.
Btw, it's weird, I still get a ticking noise after running the car somewhat hard (nothing crazy), then it goes away. Doesn't happen in comfort mode...no clue what the f*** it is this time. I swear if I hadn't just sunk all this money into the car, I'd sell it and get a Shelby GT350 or another M3.
Mine had the same wear. Some valvetrain work is in the works for the future. Keep up with proper lubrication and make sure temps are good and it’ll prolong the life of the head. I haven’t been beating on the car as much when I take it out. It’s also been stored more often until I get to replacing everything in the future. I also dont daily the 63 so it’s easy for me to do. There are plenty of replace it and forget it options you can do that will prevent this from happening again. It’ll be an investment for sure.
2000 Acura NSX, 2012 C63 P31 (gone and not forgotten), 2015 C63 507
Originally Posted by skratch77
Our cars top end is going to fail at some point. All my top end was done at 30k miles and I have noises again now at 47k
Originally Posted by MBMike09
To play it safe, I had all 32 lifters, all cams and adjusters replaced; mind you my car only has 42K miles. What would have cost me 11K ended up being $4500, thanks to my warranty, which I HIGHLY recommend. Pretty common issue (defect) that many of these cars have. Good luck and nice ride!
I had 78k miles on my last C63, and have seen cars with over 100k that haven't had an issue. Neother of which used any special oils or additives.
Is this a random issue? Is it on certain year models?
I had 78k miles on my last C63, and have seen cars with over 100k that haven't had an issue. Neother of which used any special oils or additives.
Is this a random issue? Is it on certain year models?
The day I got my car back from Mercedes it sounded so smooth and no ticking or rattling at all.
20k miles later it sounds like every other m156 ticking video we see online.
I just dont believe your car had no wear on its camadjusters,cams or lifters.
There was a huge class action lawsuit over this.
Look at robs 507 in the first post. His car is basically brand new and in mint condition (seen it when I bought his spacers) and I know the guy takes very good care of his cars and didnt want to mod his 507.
Fast forward now and the car being bone stock shows wear.
Look how many m156s taso took apart on YouTube with stuck lifters and worn lobes etc.
It's not a coincidence because we are all trying different oils and additives to help prolong the issues. Pisses me off my car has a rattle on hot start now after getting everything done.
Thanks I watched that and it is very helpful (love Tasos) - mine are similar to that maybe not quite as bad, but you can see how it is starting to wear like that and getting the pattern as it wear through the different layers. He also mentions the lobe has a little bit of an angle on it and that is what keeps the lifter spinning and as the cams wear the wear flatter and eventually the lifter will stop spinning.
He seems to indicate to keep an eye on them maybe ever 15 or 20k take look and replace when the wear starts to look worse, so maybe they do go until 50 or 75k before they need replaced.
I was initially thinking maybe since i am only 8 months out of warranty going after Mercedes for some goodwill on a repair as some others have had some success with that, but not sure they will consider it enough wear to do anything.
Maybe just a winter project and some VRP cams and BS lifters.
Last edited by roadkillrob; Sep 22, 2019 at 09:16 AM.
12 C63BS Magno Alanite Grey, 25 X5 Msport, 08 BMW E93, Ducati Hyper 698
Originally Posted by skratch77
The day I got my car back from Mercedes it sounded so smooth and no ticking or rattling at all.
20k miles later it sounds like every other m156 ticking video we see online.
I just dont believe your car had no wear on its camadjusters,cams or lifters.
There was a huge class action lawsuit over this.
Look at robs 507 in the first post. His car is basically brand new and in mint condition (seen it when I bought his spacers) and I know the guy takes very good care of his cars and didnt want to mod his 507.
Fast forward now and the car being bone stock shows wear.
Look how many m156s taso took apart on YouTube with stuck lifters and worn lobes etc.
It's not a coincidence because we are all trying different oils and additives to help prolong the issues. Pisses me off my car has a rattle on hot start now after getting everything done.
That sucks, 20k miles and you are back to wearing out cams and lifter, seems to matter what you do to these cars they are going to have the problem, some seem to have it less and do a lot more miles than others maybe the ones driven more longer trips more miles in short time are the ones that last longer and all our short trips and sitting babying them is worse. It is a shame the lawsuit didn't hold up, it certainly should have as there is a flaw here for sure.
This is both sad and infuriating to see. Camshafts should not be a "wear item" especially with such low mileage. That this problem occurs even in late model M156 engines shows Mercedes has done absolutely nothing to fix the problem. Has anyone tracked down the supplier for these components?
It is a shame the lawsuit didn't hold up, it certainly should have as there is a flaw here for sure.
One thing to remember about that lawsuit...
It was NOT successful b/c the presiding judge found the plaintiffs did not have STANDING (from memory they were all outside the warranty period). It’s well known that the M156 suffers from premature valve train deterioration..It seems to be a hit and miss thing tho, some engines that have should have updated lifters are still giving problems, so its clear that Mercedes continued using defecting parts even when the problem was first identified.
It’s pretty disappointing that one of the worlds most prestigious car brands care more about the “bottom line” than their customer base.
The lawsuit was NOT a win for Mercedes...though many people seem to report it as such.
Last edited by CptSteve; Sep 23, 2019 at 07:04 PM.
That wear is not normal. That camshaft needs to be replaced. If you take apart a car that has had the revised camshafts and lifters installed, you will not find that kind of wear. Installing a new lifter on a damaged camshaft will do nothing but destroy the new lifter over time. I keep seeing this happen, even from the dealer. A master tech installs revised lifters on damaged camshafts and the client wonders why their engine is noisy after 5,000 miles. It should be done right or not at all.
Last edited by layzie12g; Sep 24, 2019 at 03:26 PM.
That wear is not normal. That camshaft needs to be replaced. If you take apart a car that has had the revised camshafts and lifters installed, you will not find that kind of wear. Installing a new lifter on a damaged camshaft will do nothing but destroy the new lifter over time. I keep seeing this happen, even from the dealer. A master tech installs revised lifters on damaged camshafts and the client wonders why their engine is noisy after 5,000 miles. It should be done right or not at all.
I def agree that the damaged cams will destroy the new lifters. I would have thought his 2014 and my 2013 would have the revised cams and lifters from the factory. I guess I'll be the guinea pig here since I just had all cams, lifters and adjusters replaced by MB two months ago. Wish me luck.
12 C63BS Magno Alanite Grey, 25 X5 Msport, 08 BMW E93, Ducati Hyper 698
Originally Posted by MBMike09
I def agree that the damaged cams will destroy the new lifters. I would have thought his 2014 and my 2013 would have the revised cams and lifters from the factory. I guess I'll be the guinea pig here since I just had all cams, lifters and adjusters replaced by MB two months ago. Wish me luck.
Ya I was secretly hoping it would look a lot better and have some better parts when I pulled the cam cover, but it seems MB just kept putting the same stuff in the M156 up to the end with no real changes and it seems they just put it back in when they replace them so if you own the car long enough I guess you put in a few sets of cams (or you get lucky, use the right oil, drive it the right way, who knows and it doesn't wear as much - seems some last much better than others - my exhaust cams were just as bad as the intake despite being better oiled and typically lasting longer.)
Ya I was secretly hoping it would look a lot better and have some better parts when I pulled the cam cover, but it seems MB just kept putting the same stuff in the M156 up to the end with no real changes and it seems they just put it back in when they replace them so if you own the car long enough I guess you put in a few sets of cams (or you get lucky, use the right oil, drive it the right way, who knows and it doesn't wear as much - seems some last much better than others - my exhaust cams were just as bad as the intake despite being better oiled and typically lasting longer.)
Yeah, it's a shame. Needless to say, but I will begin using the Liqui Moly and related additives discussed here ad nauseam. I'm also considering a remote starter for the car, as I live in DC and don't want to wait 10 minutes during winter to build up the oil pressure and temp...actually I'll prob do this year-round for good measure.
Yeah, it's a shame. Needless to say, but I will begin using the Liqui Moly and related additives discussed here ad nauseam. I'm also considering a remote starter for the car, as I live in DC and don't want to wait 10 minutes during winter to build up the oil pressure and temp...actually I'll prob do this year-round for good measure.
Im not sure that is the right approach tho..
If I’m not mistaken doesn’t the majority of lifter / cam wear occur at idle? Something I read on this topic a while back on google was..
”camshaft lobe “over the nose” stresses are greater at idle than at higher speeds and could lead to premature cam lobe wear, especially if oil pressure is low or oil feed to the cam lobes is not that good. Most engines use splash lubrication for cam lobes so it can be very sparse at idle.”
Also MB kept using faulty cams - Tasos had a video on this
I'm also considering a remote starter for the car, as I live in DC and don't want to wait 10 minutes during winter to build up the oil pressure and temp...actually I'll prob do this year-round for good measure.
That would be worse for wear, not better. Warming up out of gear under no load takes a lot longer to warm up and idle has lower oil pressure too. "Warming up" at idle is bad.
You just need 15 seconds tops for everything to be where it needs to be then drive normally under light load to warm it up.
That would be worse for wear, not better. Warming up out of gear under no load takes a lot longer to warm up and idle has lower oil pressure too. "Warming up" at idle is bad.
You just need 15 seconds tops for everything to be where it needs to be then drive normally under light load to warm it up.
^Agree.
This, I believe is the correct way to reduce engine wear ie: keep revs below 2k till oil temp reaches 180F (after about 5 mins) then enjoy .
You guys are right, thanks for setting me straight and out of the old school mentality. I completely forgot that I read this in the owner's manual lol. Let those RPMs drop this morning and just drove
Edit: Apart from those who abuse their cars, I wonder if the C63s with this wear are a result from chronic warming up at idle My car has, for the most part, been owned in places with colder weather, PA and VA, so perhaps folks let it idle too long during the colder months.
Last edited by MBMike09; Sep 25, 2019 at 08:45 AM.
I wonder if the C63s with this wear are a result from chronic warming up at idle My car has, for the most part, been owned in places with colder weather, PA and VA, so perhaps folks let it idle too long during the colder months.
I was actually thinking the exact same thing.
If we agree that idle = bad cam wear, then its likely that the severe cam wear observed on low kms cars is a result of too much idling - makes sense to me and one of the reasons why I decided against installing a remote starter kit on my vehicle.
Another thing I have always wondered is whether Tasos is right in running 10w/60 oil on these engines - I know some people reckon its crazy to run such a high viscous oil...BUT if the ideas is to coat the upper engine parts thoroughly between drives (say if the car is a daily driver) then maybe a thicker viscosity is better at reducing valve train wear on startup? Makes sense to me...but I would be interested to see the numbers.
Just another data point...my 2011 spent its life in Southern California, rarely saw temps under 60 degrees and always had the oil changed every 5K. Ticking was present at 23,000 miles. There was never a need to idle in the morning, but it did spend a good amount of time sitting in traffic on the 405.
Last edited by cloverfield; Sep 25, 2019 at 08:44 PM.
Reason: fix typo
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My car has, for the most part, been owned in places with colder weather, PA and VA, so perhaps folks let it idle too long during the colder months.
