Transmission Rebuild
12-02-2020, 05:35 AM
#51
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Just seen this thread now, BLK your car is going t feel so nice with the fresh tranny. My 212 used to slip badly in the UK winter months on cold start. I literally would just drive around the block a couple of times with the car simply in drive mode and not touching the throttle, as it would slip and only make engine noise rather than mph. After it had warmed up a little, I would be able to go on the roads and baby the throttle a bit more. After a few minutes, it would be pretty much normal and then I'd be able to use the normal amount of throttle that you would do on a cold engine on the way to work. Always knew it was the clutch packs but was never sure if I liked the car enough to bother doing it. The issue only surfaced in the really cold months near 0 degrees centigrade (similar climate to what you have in New York), but in the summer months, it was fine (and summers over here generally hover around in the high teens to mid twenties.
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BLKROKT (12-02-2020)
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12-03-2020, 11:12 AM
#53
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I don't know much about the intricacies of the 722.9 so can't really contribute anything meaningful, but this look like a properly done job. I'm sure it will make a huge difference. 
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BLKROKT (12-03-2020)
12-09-2020, 11:35 AM
#54
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The wet clutch pack being a sealed unit, the implication is that the fluid that makes it a wet pack is sealed in with it.
The implication is that this fluid is another one of those "lifetime lubricants", which since the days of the BMW E36 automatic transmission lawsuit, we know that in corporate language lifetime= 100 k miles.
However for a track car, the ultra heavy service that the transmission is put through, then reduces the service life of the lifetime lubricant from 100k to .... maybe 60k.
Btw, drag racing and doing burnouts, donuts, drifting, can also accelerate the replacement interval of the clutch pack lubricant fluid.
Furthermore, a clutch pack is in the end a clutch.
Clutches are rated for an amount of torque. Once you mod the car and increase the torque output a lot, then the clutch starts to operate close to its torque holding limit. That must reduce its fluid replacement interval.
Now since the oil is sealed inside the pack, the only way to change the oil, is to change the pack.
Maybe this is why it's cheap, it's a consumable.
The implication is that this fluid is another one of those "lifetime lubricants", which since the days of the BMW E36 automatic transmission lawsuit, we know that in corporate language lifetime= 100 k miles.
However for a track car, the ultra heavy service that the transmission is put through, then reduces the service life of the lifetime lubricant from 100k to .... maybe 60k.
Btw, drag racing and doing burnouts, donuts, drifting, can also accelerate the replacement interval of the clutch pack lubricant fluid.
Furthermore, a clutch pack is in the end a clutch.
Clutches are rated for an amount of torque. Once you mod the car and increase the torque output a lot, then the clutch starts to operate close to its torque holding limit. That must reduce its fluid replacement interval.
Now since the oil is sealed inside the pack, the only way to change the oil, is to change the pack.
Maybe this is why it's cheap, it's a consumable.
01-22-2021, 04:42 PM
#55
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I take it the Blue (ATF134 FE) is not backward compatible with the Red (ATF134)?
You can't put Blue in the non A89 transmission right?
You can't put Blue in the non A89 transmission right?
01-22-2021, 05:17 PM
#56
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That is correct. The ATF 134 FE (Blue) was designed for the 7-G Tronic Plus (A89) transmissions, while the ATF 134 (Red) was designed for the older MB 4, 5, and 7-speed transmissions made prior to June 2010. The ATF 134 FE (Blue) is NOT backwards compatible to ATF 134 (Red) as it has a much lighter viscosity and some other differences.
01-22-2021, 05:18 PM
#57
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01-22-2021, 05:29 PM
#58
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That is correct. The ATF 134 FE (Blue) was designed for the 7-G Tronic Plus (A89) transmissions, while the ATF 134 (Red) was designed for the older MB 4, 5, and 7-speed transmissions made prior to June 2010. The ATF 134 FE (Blue) is NOT backwards compatible to ATF 134 (Red) as it has a much lighter viscosity and some other differences.
01-22-2021, 06:39 PM
#59
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01-22-2021, 07:01 PM
#60
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They look identical but as diablos said they say they aren’t compatible perhaps it’s a different element inside the filter housing ? I can’t see why it would be different based on the fluids, but it definitely isn’t worth chancing
01-22-2021, 10:11 PM
#61
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The MCT is a sealed unit. It looks like a baby torque converter. Yes it's submerged in atf and works just like any other wet clutch pack design. It uses the same fluid that circulates through the rest of the transmission.
01-22-2021, 11:23 PM
#62
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I don't know. When searching for a replacement filter they have different part numbers for pre-A89 and A89 (reduced friction) transmissions, so I would suspect it is not - although it could be just the gasket material that is different as the filter looks similar. However, as the two ATFs have a different viscosity, it is foreseeable that the filtration elements inside the filters are also different, so I'd check with MB parts based on the VIN.
I could have sworn someone mentioned using the new SmartMediaTriple filter with the red fluid is
EDIT: FCP Euro upgrade kit https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...n-001989680310 shows "Not for vehicles with A89 Option Code" and the filter in the kit list is https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...a89-2222772000 which is the new filter.
Last edited by Jasonoff; 01-22-2021 at 11:28 PM.
01-23-2021, 02:23 AM
#64
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I think that it doesn't stand to logic that something is sealed, yet opened to the flow of environment fluid.
If a piece of equipment is sealed and immersed in some fluid, then fluid cannot travel through it.
As far as the clutch pack being not sealed and just immersed in transmission fluid, I see that as not standing to logic either:
A difference between a torque converter and a clutch is that the torque converter is not a wearable item that generates waste material as it wears.
You cannot have something wear down and contaminate the transmission fluid in the process.
This is why it seems logical that:
A there is a fluid in the clutch pack, as it's referred to as a wet clutch
B the fluid contains debris from the constantly wearing clutch discs and it should not mix and contaminate the overall transmission fluid
C the quantities for the oil change of the wet clutch cars seem (can't recall for sure so check this) lower than the torque converter cars, suggesting that the volume of fluid that is contained in the torque converter is ... not present. If there was the same volume of fluid in the clutch pack, probably the oil change volume total would be the same.
If the volumes of oil change are different, then the difference of volumes may be the oil that is sealed in the clutch pack and cannot be drained or replaced.
If it were true that the transmission fluid freely circulates through the clutch pack, I would hope there is some sort of filter somewhere, to remove the particles of clutch lining, before the fluid exits the clutch pack.
As it stands, with the 7 speeds, I was reading somewhere that the export versions of this, when compared to the German versions, lack some sort of additional filter.
I was putting this information together with information that one person posted, saying that if when doing the transmission oil change, you take additional time and you remove the contact plate and then remove the solenoids and carefully clean both before reinstalling and then completing the job, you improve the feel of the transmission a lot.
Maybe because of the lack of this additional filter, fine debris coat the contact plate and the solenoids and cause rougher shifts and reverse delay.
If a piece of equipment is sealed and immersed in some fluid, then fluid cannot travel through it.
As far as the clutch pack being not sealed and just immersed in transmission fluid, I see that as not standing to logic either:
A difference between a torque converter and a clutch is that the torque converter is not a wearable item that generates waste material as it wears.
You cannot have something wear down and contaminate the transmission fluid in the process.
This is why it seems logical that:
A there is a fluid in the clutch pack, as it's referred to as a wet clutch
B the fluid contains debris from the constantly wearing clutch discs and it should not mix and contaminate the overall transmission fluid
C the quantities for the oil change of the wet clutch cars seem (can't recall for sure so check this) lower than the torque converter cars, suggesting that the volume of fluid that is contained in the torque converter is ... not present. If there was the same volume of fluid in the clutch pack, probably the oil change volume total would be the same.
If the volumes of oil change are different, then the difference of volumes may be the oil that is sealed in the clutch pack and cannot be drained or replaced.
If it were true that the transmission fluid freely circulates through the clutch pack, I would hope there is some sort of filter somewhere, to remove the particles of clutch lining, before the fluid exits the clutch pack.
As it stands, with the 7 speeds, I was reading somewhere that the export versions of this, when compared to the German versions, lack some sort of additional filter.
I was putting this information together with information that one person posted, saying that if when doing the transmission oil change, you take additional time and you remove the contact plate and then remove the solenoids and carefully clean both before reinstalling and then completing the job, you improve the feel of the transmission a lot.
Maybe because of the lack of this additional filter, fine debris coat the contact plate and the solenoids and cause rougher shifts and reverse delay.
Last edited by Vladds; 01-23-2021 at 02:26 AM.
01-23-2021, 09:01 AM
#65
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Either way I'm a muppet and ordered the wrong fluid from FCP. I think I had both in my cart and deleted the wrong one. Will clear up the filter compatibility on Monday as well when I figure out if it's worth returning the wrong fluid.
01-23-2021, 12:37 PM
#66
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01-23-2021, 06:29 PM
#68
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I don't know what your understanding of a sealed unit is, but seeing as the transmission ATF circulates through the MCT clutch pack, it can't be sealed by definition.
01-23-2021, 08:12 PM
#69
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Went down the rabbit hole on this once and spelled out filter/fluid compatibility, with reference material, in Post #38.
If anyone with a non-MCT C63 is looking to use the updated smart media filter (same one in FCP's upgrade kit), you will need the deeper pan and green-colored overflow plug.
If anyone with a non-MCT C63 is looking to use the updated smart media filter (same one in FCP's upgrade kit), you will need the deeper pan and green-colored overflow plug.
01-23-2021, 09:18 PM
#70
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Went down the rabbit hole on this once and spelled out filter/fluid compatibility, with reference material, in Post #38.
If anyone with a non-MCT C63 is looking to use the updated smart media filter (same one in FCP's upgrade kit), you will need the deeper pan and green-colored overflow plug.
If anyone with a non-MCT C63 is looking to use the updated smart media filter (same one in FCP's upgrade kit), you will need the deeper pan and green-colored overflow plug.
01-25-2021, 10:17 AM
#71
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This A89 code, to my understanding, is just tied to a different fluid used in the factory build. Different flow characteristics, hence the different filter (MB Part # 2222772000).
01-25-2021, 11:32 AM
#72
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Correct. A note on the deeper OE pan, it offers only a couple hundred mL in additional capacity...something that FCP doesn't advertise. The only tangible benefit is in the ability to run the upgraded filter.
This A89 code, to my understanding, is just tied to a different fluid used in the factory build. Different flow characteristics, hence the different filter (MB Part # 2222772000).
This A89 code, to my understanding, is just tied to a different fluid used in the factory build. Different flow characteristics, hence the different filter (MB Part # 2222772000).
RE: Deeper OE pan, yeah it's barely anything. Even the Weistec pan that I have claims fluid capacity is increased by 2.5 Quarts but I'm honestly not seeing how with the fill hole so close to the bottom of the pan.
01-25-2021, 12:47 PM
#73
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FCP Euro confirmed the SmartMediaTriple filter is backward compatible.
RE: Deeper OE pan, yeah it's barely anything. Even the Weistec pan that I have claims fluid capacity is increased by 2.5 Quarts but I'm honestly not seeing how with the fill hole so close to the bottom of the pan.
RE: Deeper OE pan, yeah it's barely anything. Even the Weistec pan that I have claims fluid capacity is increased by 2.5 Quarts but I'm honestly not seeing how with the fill hole so close to the bottom of the pan.
The Weistec pan is filled from the bottom just like the OE transmission pan. That side hole is one of two that are there in case anyone wants to rig up an external transmission cooler.
01-25-2021, 01:02 PM
#74
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Ahhhh my bad
Last edited by Jasonoff; 01-25-2021 at 01:12 PM.
