How’s the oil consumption ?
If it’s a lot, then it could be a piston oil ring issue .
None. Also, compression test came back perfect. Additionally, if this was a ring/compression issue, id be willing to be it would show up at all RPMS, not just 1500ish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BalanBro
Do you have anyone you can swap a gas pedal with and test? Not sure how that could possibly lead to the issues you're experiencing, but that is a very common failure on these cars that will throw them into limp mode (mine went bad at only 53k miles). If you know someone with a car that uses the same pedal, it's a super quick swap to test out.
I don't. They are pretty cheap on ebay though. Hate to throw parts at it but im running out of options lol.
None. Also, compression test came back perfect. Additionally, if this was a ring/compression issue, id be willing to be it would show up at all RPMS, not just 1500ish.
I don't. They are pretty cheap on ebay though. Hate to throw parts at it but im running out of options lol.
Since you have Xentry, you could monitor peddle output voltage and see if there is a dead spot.
Hi, great content on youtube!
Have you searched german forums/google translate: M156 misfire to german and then search and then use translate etc
Can be a PITA but you figure out what they write if you know your car stuff.
Since you have Xentry, you could monitor peddle output voltage and see if there is a dead spot.
waste of time and horrible advice. If you know Mercedes then a bad pedal would not cause one bank to misfire. It would cause limp mode with throttle and pedal codes.
One thing to check is that there are components in the ECU that can cause misfire but only when they warm up - I remember reading about this on ******* when I was researching my own misfire issues. They can check for this by starting the car and then using a heat gun or hair dryer to get the case of the ECU nice an hot, and it will start misfiring. Cool the case down with an inverter can of air duster and it will work again. If i find the thread I will link it here.
Wow, long thread here, reading this cause my w205 c63 had a low end misfire, under 3k rpm, worsens under high load, only under the tune, stock it runs fine. Tuned or not flooring it top end is fantastic. No cracked intake, new spark plugs, new coil packs, new turbo clamps, stage 2. Just downpipe stock intake, 91 tune. Was like this on stage 1 too…NO CODES, even on Xentry…losing my mind. Didnt want to hijack ofc but a rare weird situation.
- Able to upload the HP Tuner logs for comparison?
- Did you measure resistance/voltage of the solenoids at the affected RPM range with them connected?
- Able to attach the wiring diagram PDFs on here for the engine? I'd like to follow the paths of the 4 solenoids
I would think unplugging the solenoids deactivate the camshaft adjustment and you may see a different in angles at the affected RPM range for a working m156 vs. yours. I cannot see if that was confirmed yet as HLG600 suggested it.
I've been anxiously keeping an eye on this thread and would like to see if I can help.
ECU tested fine, but ECUpros couldnt rule out a driver or main board or something being bad. I got my ECU back and continued testing.
Checked resistance and continuity on all cam position sensors, solenoids, coils, injectors etc. No issues that I could see.
Just got a replacement ECU from ECU Pros. Installed it. Zero change. At this point we can say with certainty this is NOT an ECU issue.
At this point the car has been down for a year. It runs and drive perfect with the cam solenoid unplugged. Im tired of messing with it and it sitting. Drove it all day yesterday and to work today with zero issues. Man its great to be driving it again, even with a check engine light.
I will continue to poke around with it, but i'm done letting it sit. Did take some logs while driving yesterday. it is interesting that the long term fuel trims on either bank are off by 10+% (one in the negatives, one in the positives). Will continue to monitor.
Just a quick thought, and I'm not sure if this would cause your particular fault but on my car I did a camshaft relearn on the ECU after I rebuilt the cam adjusters. Do you have the ability to do that and see if it helps? It basically has start the engine and hold the revs around 2500 for 15 seconds until the computer can relearn the small variations in cam adjuster timing.
Just a quick thought, and I'm not sure if this would cause your particular fault but on my car I did a camshaft relearn on the ECU after I rebuilt the cam adjusters. Do you have the ability to do that and see if it helps? It basically has start the engine and hold the revs around 2500 for 15 seconds until the computer can relearn the small variations in cam adjuster timing.
yeah, ive done the cam position re-learn a few times. No change.
Just a quick thought, and I'm not sure if this would cause your particular fault but on my car I did a camshaft relearn on the ECU after I rebuilt the cam adjusters. Do you have the ability to do that and see if it helps? It basically has start the engine and hold the revs around 2500 for 15 seconds until the computer can relearn the small variations in cam adjuster timing.
yeah, ive done the cam position re-learn a few times. No change.
The next thing that popped into my head was I saw you had feedback knock stored at -3. I'm not familiar with this platform enough but on Subarus, which I do know inside and out, if a knock sensor is going bad or if you...for example dropped a bolt into the engine bay and it landed near the knock sensor it can cause similar misfire issues at specific RPMs. Subarus have a knock table that stores knock counts across load and rpm, not just a 1d stored value.
Check the knock sensors. They're on the sides of the engine, under the exhaust manifolds. Unplug them, you'll get a CEL but see if the car improves. Check for debris.
The next thing that popped into my head was I saw you had feedback knock stored at -3. I'm not familiar with this platform enough but on Subarus, which I do know inside and out, if a knock sensor is going bad or if you...for example dropped a bolt into the engine bay and it landed near the knock sensor it can cause similar misfire issues at specific RPMs. Subarus have a knock table that stores knock counts across load and rpm, not just a 1d stored value.
Check the knock sensors. They're on the sides of the engine, under the exhaust manifolds. Unplug them, you'll get a CEL but see if the car improves. Check for debris.
Good tip. Knock sensors are definitely on my list to check.
9103835[/url]]The next thing that popped into my head was I saw you had feedback knock stored at -3. I'm not familiar with this platform enough but on Subarus, which I do know inside and out, if a knock sensor is going bad or if you...for example dropped a bolt into the engine bay and it landed near the knock sensor it can cause similar misfire issues at specific RPMs. Subarus have a knock table that stores knock counts across load and rpm, not just a 1d stored value.
Check the knock sensors. They're on the sides of the engine, under the exhaust manifolds. Unplug them, you'll get a CEL but see if the car improves. Check for debris.
Yep, this was my first thought too. With no real load on the engine you definitely shouldn’t be reading knock retard. Did you do headers on this car? Certain header brands can lead to false knock due to harmonics.
Yep, this was my first thought too. With no real load on the engine you definitely shouldn’t be reading knock retard. Did you do headers on this car? Certain header brands can lead to false knock due to harmonics.
I can't recall if that knock was when driving or sitting at idle, but i'll check.
Yes the car has longtube headers, but they were on the car for over a year and around 8k miles before this issue showed up.
If you want to get new knock sensors, I can have them here at the Dealership for Thursday. $44 for each.
The price on those might just be right to replace them anyways.
Now I don't think that this could be your case, I've never seen anything like this before... but at this point, the symptoms he describes are similar to yours and it wouldn't hurt to check it out.
Hi just chiming in here after a very extensive troubleshooting and diagnosis on my 2010 M156 W212 E63.
I had very similar problems and troubleshooting process, single bank misfires and hesitation while driving. What really starting me down the right path was seeing where you had disconnected the Camshaft solenoid and that fixing the misfires / drivability issue.
I did the same testing on my car and same result. My misfires and hesitation completely gone, which logically pointed to the problem lying somewhere within the VVT system.
I ruled out chain and guide wear through a borescope inside my oil filler cap as my issues were on bank 2. I decided to bite the bullet and do a deeper inspection by taking apart the top end to really get a better look at everything, verify timing, and camshaft adjuster health. As I had previously seen implausible camshaft position angles during my misfire events and recently had a code appear for it. Although I've been living with the issues for almost a year now as they progressively got worse.
Anyways, ended up taking it all apart and I found I had a dislodge reluctor wheel oil seal ring.
The M156 guru himself, Tasos Moschatos, mentions this problem in a couple of his videos.
Tried to link the exact timestamps, but in the first video, he mentions this at 7:14, 2nd video is mentioned at 28:45.
Here was the condition on mine: Before After
I replaced the rings with the supposedly upgraded Mehenker parts which are supposed to have less friction than the stock steel rings to prevent them from getting dislodged from their channels. Got mine from 63 motorsports: https://www.63motorsports.com/afterm...156pulseorings
Hi just chiming in here after a very extensive troubleshooting and diagnosis on my 2010 M156 W212 E63.
I had very similar problems and troubleshooting process, single bank misfires and hesitation while driving. What really starting me down the right path was seeing where you had disconnected the Camshaft solenoid and that fixing the misfires / drivability issue.
I did the same testing on my car and same result. My misfires and hesitation completely gone, which logically pointed to the problem lying somewhere within the VVT system.
I ruled out chain and guide wear through a borescope inside my oil filler cap as my issues were on bank 2. I decided to bite the bullet and do a deeper inspection by taking apart the top end to really get a better look at everything, verify timing, and camshaft adjuster health. As I had previously seen implausible camshaft position angles during my misfire events and recently had a code appear for it. Although I've been living with the issues for almost a year now as they progressively got worse.
Anyways, ended up taking it all apart and I found I had a dislodge reluctor wheel oil seal ring.
The M156 guru himself, Tasos Moschatos, mentions this problem in a couple of his videos.
Tried to link the exact timestamps, but in the first video, he mentions this at 7:14, 2nd video is mentioned at 28:45.
Here was the condition on mine: Before After
I replaced the rings with the supposedly upgraded Mehenker parts which are supposed to have less friction than the stock steel rings to prevent them from getting dislodged from their channels. Got mine from 63 motorsports: https://www.63motorsports.com/afterm...156pulseorings
Thanks for the in depth reply and for sharing the fix to your issue. Not enough people do this!
You are the second person to respond and say that the oil reluctor seals fixed this exact issue of the 1500rpm misfire. They can break, or become dislodged. Unfortunately, I am not sure if this will be the case for me. I've had the cam adjuster covers off multiple times and all of my rings were intact. Maybe they are worn and allowing oil seepage? Not sure, but I might get thoser Mehenker parts installed anyways just to rule one more thing out and as preventative maintenance.
I still have yet to get any cam timing codes. Just the misfire codes. Hoping to dive back into this car in the coming weeks. I've been driving it the last 6 months or so with the cam solenoid unplugged lol.
Thanks for the in depth reply and for sharing the fix to your issue. Not enough people do this!
You are the second person to respond and say that the oil reluctor seals fixed this exact issue of the 1500rpm misfire. They can break, or become dislodged. Unfortunately, I am not sure if this will be the case for me. I've had the cam adjuster covers off multiple times and all of my rings were intact. Maybe they are worn and allowing oil seepage? Not sure, but I might get thoser Mehenker parts installed anyways just to rule one more thing out and as preventative maintenance.
I still have yet to get any cam timing codes. Just the misfire codes. Hoping to dive back into this car in the coming weeks. I've been driving it the last 6 months or so with the cam solenoid unplugged lol.
As Tasos points out in his videos, the rings can partially break where they don’t create a seal properly. When you go to check these, compress them with your finger to ensure the opening touches completely on every ring to confirm they are fully intact.
You might also want to check for any chain slack or guide wear next time you have the valve and timing covers off. (Or you can check somewhat via borescope on bank 2 through the oil fill cap)
I didn’t have any VVT related codes either until only very recently but the misfires were happening for almost a year prior.
Back at it. I've been driving this thing for almost a year with the cam solenoid unplugged lol. Also coming up on 2 years since this issue first appeared. I think it finally time to figure this out once and for all.
Pulled it into the garage last night, got Xentry installed on my new laptop, HPtuners etc. Also got a new Picoscope so I can try and look at cam/crank signals and see if I have anything weird going on.
Over the past 6 months I have also picked up those new cam adjuster sealing rings, as well as a good used W212 E63 M156 harness from ebay. Im not sure if either of these things are causing my issue, but the sealing rings were cheap enough, and could be considered an upgrade/maintenance item, and the engine harness is not available new anymore, and impossible to find since they made so few of the W212 M156 cars. I jumped on it for a deal, just to have it.
Since its been a while, going to start with the basics: compression test, scope cylinders, maybe scope timing chain see what what looks like, etc. Then probably dive in with Xentry and also try to learn the Picoscope software.
Back at it. I've been driving this thing for almost a year with the cam solenoid unplugged lol. Also coming up on 2 years since this issue first appeared. I think it finally time to figure this out once and for all.
Pulled it into the garage last night, got Xentry installed on my new laptop, HPtuners etc. Also got a new Picoscope so I can try and look at cam/crank signals and see if I have anything weird going on.
Over the past 6 months I have also picked up those new cam adjuster sealing rings, as well as a good used W212 E63 M156 harness from ebay. Im not sure if either of these things are causing my issue, but the sealing rings were cheap enough, and could be considered an upgrade/maintenance item, and the engine harness is not available new anymore, and impossible to find since they made so few of the W212 M156 cars. I jumped on it for a deal, just to have it.
Since its been a while, going to start with the basics: compression test, scope cylinders, maybe scope timing chain see what what looks like, etc. Then probably dive in with Xentry and also try to learn the Picoscope software.
Stay tuned...
Looking forward to a video. I think this is a more worth endeavor than the old man panther body cop car
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