Burger Motorsports 2018 C63 Dyno Testing
12-31-2018, 10:46 PM
#301
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Have the jb4 installed on my c63s .Finally figured out the bluetooth connection and was able to start logging . Seems stronger already on map 1, however trying to figure out the bugs with map 2 and 3 . Check engine light comes on after driving around on map 2 or 3 and has no power at all and barely will get up to speed. So far, the trick is to clear the codes and switch back to map 0 or 1 .
Uodate**
So the car will run rough after a few minutes and cut our power and turn off .have to turn off the car, clear codes, turn on and it will go a few blocks again before reoccurring
Uodate**
So the car will run rough after a few minutes and cut our power and turn off .have to turn off the car, clear codes, turn on and it will go a few blocks again before reoccurring
It's a bit of a skeleton crew around here right now for the holiday, but if anyone needs help just email jon@burgertuning.com some install photos and details if it's an issue coming up right after install, or a JB4 log and the codes (read via the app) if it's just coming up under certain conditions, and he can help you sort it out.
As a reminder during the BETA we suggest everyone, especially the S cars, stay on map1 until we've had a chance to review logs from your specific car.
Last edited by BMS; 12-31-2018 at 11:04 PM.
12-31-2018, 10:52 PM
#302
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Are you Eddie with the C63S, ECU flash map, upgraded turbos, I was helping via email the other day? You've got a lot going on there with the car, it's a lot more complex than the JB4 only setups most in this thread will be using, so it's best handled via email. I don't think your transmission fault (that mysteriously cleared itself) is directly JB4 related since it came up on map0 (JB4 bypassed), but I provided you some next steps via email so we can troubleshoot it.
Last edited by BMS; 12-31-2018 at 11:05 PM.
12-31-2018, 10:56 PM
#303
Former Vendor of MBWorld
All C63 piggybacks are a headache to access the MAP connectors compared to say the C43. I have no idea why they made everything so difficult to reach on the V8! But after you've done it once it's really not too bad.
Last edited by BMS; 12-31-2018 at 11:15 PM.
01-01-2019, 02:53 AM
#304
Are you Eddie with the C63S, ECU flash map, upgraded turbos, I was helping via email the other day? You've got a lot going on there with the car, it's a lot more complex than the JB4 only setups most in this thread will be using, so it's best handled via email. I don't think your transmission fault (that mysteriously cleared itself) is directly JB4 related since it came up on map0 (JB4 bypassed), but I provided you some next steps via email so we can troubleshoot it.
And I know, my car and situation is a little more complex than most so I've stayed quiet and we'll proceed as we talked about via email. Definitely here to help further development on platform and jb4 because I see huge potential here for us with jb4 available, Just need to take careful baby steps to get there safely. Not here to talk bad or complain about anything, I know what I signed up for with beta stage for all of this.
We'll get back to it Wednesday or so sir! I'll shoot you an email
Hope you had an awesome new years Terry/Jon! (Not sure who uses this account)
01-01-2019, 08:41 AM
#305
UGreat to see that BMS is supporting modded vehicle’s, vehicles stacking other tunes, etc. However, personally would have liked to see the first round of beta be concentrated in getting things dialed in and buttoned up on stock non-S and S models, then open up to more varied and complicated applications at a later stage.
Just hoping all the time and effort that will need to be spent getting things to work in very customized situations doesn’t sacrifice rock solid reliability and quality for the vast majority who will use this on a stock car...of that group likely mostly S models, and then non S’s as a slightly smaller subset.
Just hoping all the time and effort that will need to be spent getting things to work in very customized situations doesn’t sacrifice rock solid reliability and quality for the vast majority who will use this on a stock car...of that group likely mostly S models, and then non S’s as a slightly smaller subset.
01-01-2019, 11:19 AM
#306
Former Vendor of MBWorld
UGreat to see that BMS is supporting modded vehicle’s, vehicles stacking other tunes, etc. However, personally would have liked to see the first round of beta be concentrated in getting things dialed in and buttoned up on stock non-S and S models, then open up to more varied and complicated applications at a later stage.
Just hoping all the time and effort that will need to be spent getting things to work in very customized situations doesn’t sacrifice rock solid reliability and quality for the vast majority who will use this on a stock car...of that group likely mostly S models, and then non S’s as a slightly smaller subset.
Just hoping all the time and effort that will need to be spent getting things to work in very customized situations doesn’t sacrifice rock solid reliability and quality for the vast majority who will use this on a stock car...of that group likely mostly S models, and then non S’s as a slightly smaller subset.
Last edited by BMS; 01-01-2019 at 12:19 PM.
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spikiii (01-01-2019)
01-01-2019, 08:53 PM
#307
Senior Member
I still have warranty until 2021, so thats why i decided go jb4 instead of tune.
For service inspections is it better to remove the whole jb4, or just turn it off? Do the technicians see some cables of jb4 or not ? Thanks
For service inspections is it better to remove the whole jb4, or just turn it off? Do the technicians see some cables of jb4 or not ? Thanks
01-01-2019, 09:34 PM
#308
Senior Member
Mercedes can easily tell if you had a piggyback even if removed by looking at different tables which record within the ecu
01-01-2019, 10:29 PM
#309
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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kimeran (01-02-2019)
01-01-2019, 10:29 PM
#310
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Best thing is always to remove it, if you're concerned about it and don't have a friendly relationship with the dealer.
01-01-2019, 11:06 PM
#311
Senior Member
01-02-2019, 12:54 AM
#312
Senior Member
Funny you say that . I actually work for Mercedes and if requested due to an unusual failure we have to allow Mercedes Germany access via plugging them in and they will actually go into the cars ecu and search and I've seen them deny coverage and void warranties . Think what you want but if they want to find it they will .....
01-02-2019, 02:41 AM
#313
Super Member
Also most all the logs do not come or are stored from what most people talk about ECU, they are in an 24GiB R1* NVMe logging facility which is independent of the ECU or TCU. If a parameter is out of specs it will be stored until the next diagnostic.
*32GiB for the GTs/r most F1s have a similar facility with 512GiB where still telemetry gets stored until they pit.
These NVMe modules are almost 2 times larger with the reserved cells used to replace faulty or worn out cells. if there is one part of the systems that is way over engineer are these facilities, not because the car manufacturer wants to spend more money but because this the cheapest commodity hardware that complies with the different regulations and running a nano version of a pretty well adopted OS as it does the TCU, the ECU has a different OS version.
*32GiB for the GTs/r most F1s have a similar facility with 512GiB where still telemetry gets stored until they pit.
These NVMe modules are almost 2 times larger with the reserved cells used to replace faulty or worn out cells. if there is one part of the systems that is way over engineer are these facilities, not because the car manufacturer wants to spend more money but because this the cheapest commodity hardware that complies with the different regulations and running a nano version of a pretty well adopted OS as it does the TCU, the ECU has a different OS version.
In my world (where we design and sell ASICs and ARM based CPUs), it is rather simple to detect modded Firmware.
All you need (for the techie guys CRC check) is a checksum calculation on NVRAM (FLASH Memory side) where a pre-calculated (non modified version) is stored
and encrypted on NVRAM itself using each CPU's internal ID as its key. Basically, upon power up or reset, the first thing the program can do is to complete a checksum calculation and compare it
to the prestored value and if not a match, it will make a note somewhere and when connected to an external diagnostic it can report it.
Basically, any time a tuner changes values in the base tables (not the trims for those familiar with OBD-II protocol), this will cause a change to the checksum :-(
hence, a detectable ECU. The epoc based encryption(mentioned by Astolfo) to head quarts etc may be done to download and verify new FW versions, but I doubt is done every time MB diagnostic system
(STAR) is connected to a single car.
All you need (for the techie guys CRC check) is a checksum calculation on NVRAM (FLASH Memory side) where a pre-calculated (non modified version) is stored
and encrypted on NVRAM itself using each CPU's internal ID as its key. Basically, upon power up or reset, the first thing the program can do is to complete a checksum calculation and compare it
to the prestored value and if not a match, it will make a note somewhere and when connected to an external diagnostic it can report it.
Basically, any time a tuner changes values in the base tables (not the trims for those familiar with OBD-II protocol), this will cause a change to the checksum :-(
hence, a detectable ECU. The epoc based encryption(mentioned by Astolfo) to head quarts etc may be done to download and verify new FW versions, but I doubt is done every time MB diagnostic system
(STAR) is connected to a single car.
01-02-2019, 12:06 PM
#314
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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ezatnova (01-02-2019)
01-02-2019, 01:21 PM
#315
Super Member
From the same thread (next page):
01-02-2019, 01:40 PM
#316
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Maybe I misunderstood. When they say that NVMe logging facility is independent of the ECU or TCU, and it logs parameters out of specs, I'd assume a piggyback manipulating values out of spec, be it by the output it's providing, or by the power/torque/boost values its deviating from stock, would generate a loggable out of parameter event.
From the same thread (next page):
From the same thread (next page):
We offer tuning for VAG models and it's the flash maps that leave the GT1 warranty void fault behind, not the well designed piggybacks.
01-03-2019, 02:52 PM
#318
Super Member
Flash maps directly change tuning parameters and anything out of spec is recorded. A good piggyback like the JB4 on the other hand, by nature of how it has to work to perform it's tuning, can't change any factory parameter. The ECU has to think everything is 100% stock for the piggyback to work properly.
We offer tuning for VAG models and it's the flash maps that leave the GT1 warranty void fault behind, not the well designed piggybacks.
We offer tuning for VAG models and it's the flash maps that leave the GT1 warranty void fault behind, not the well designed piggybacks.
01-03-2019, 05:33 PM
#319
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Hey guys,
Found an issue with some of the C63 BETA systems shipped. There is a resistor on the JB4 control board that needs to be soldered over. If it's not, you may get a check engine light, mismatched bank to bank fuel trims when looking at JB4 logs, etc.
Photo attached to identify the issue. There should be a wire soldered across the resistor as shown.
If you're missing the wire then we've got the following options for you:
1) Leave the fuel pressure connections stock for now, leaving the rest of the JB4 plugs attached. Fortunately they are relatively easy to reach connections.
2) Email me @ terry@burgertuning.com and I can send you a replacement JB4 control board which attaches to the JB4 harness.
3) If you're handy with a soldering iron you can add the missing wire yourself.
Found an issue with some of the C63 BETA systems shipped. There is a resistor on the JB4 control board that needs to be soldered over. If it's not, you may get a check engine light, mismatched bank to bank fuel trims when looking at JB4 logs, etc.
Photo attached to identify the issue. There should be a wire soldered across the resistor as shown.
If you're missing the wire then we've got the following options for you:
1) Leave the fuel pressure connections stock for now, leaving the rest of the JB4 plugs attached. Fortunately they are relatively easy to reach connections.
2) Email me @ terry@burgertuning.com and I can send you a replacement JB4 control board which attaches to the JB4 harness.
3) If you're handy with a soldering iron you can add the missing wire yourself.
01-09-2019, 12:30 PM
#321
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Been working with quite a few guys via email with good success, hopefully you start seeing some of them post here soon.
01-10-2019, 09:06 PM
#323
MBWorld Fanatic!
I’d love to throw on a set of bigger turbos I have laying around, but don’t want to ECU tune the car. And boost by gear is a must have for me, as I’m sure you’ve discovered with stage 1!
01-10-2019, 09:13 PM
#324
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Most of the larger turbo cars we're working with already have a flash map, and are looking to fine tune it. If doing large turbos I'd suggest the same route. Some sort of a flash to at least get it closer then we can fine tune with you on the JB4.
01-10-2019, 10:24 PM
#325
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm curious what other features are in the works, an adjustable launch control would be awesome.
