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Burger Motorsports 2018 C63 Dyno Testing

 
Old 09-20-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Troll View Post
Great news but why the $300 Mercedes tax? JB4 for the M3/4 is $599
m3/m4 are $799 list price and discounted to $599. Iím sure when products first launch, theyíre at list and then over time get discounted after the initial bolas of customers purchase theirs. Now, you could ask why $899 vs $799.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:23 PM
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Glad I waited, I'm in Tuner / intake

any plans on testing C63s?

Last edited by jatt143; 09-20-2018 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Hey guys,

We were able to get our new C63 strapped down today for a little tuning. Our development car is all stock with around 800 miles on the clock, base model, $68,000 sticker price. Fuel during testing was 91 with a couple gallons of E85 mixed in. We think these results will be repeatable on good quality 93 octane fuel but will retest in the future. Temps in the 70s.

The cliff notes:

1) Stock performed better than expected at 465whp / 490wtq, stock boost was ~9.5psi under these testing conditions.
2) Using the JB4 we raised boost up to 15.5psi peak but kept a nice taper up top to keep things safe. Power jumped up to 537whp / 597wtq.
3) We previously determined that the factory intake is a major restriction so we installed a prototype BMS intake system with the car on the dyno and the reduced restriction allowed it to hit 561whp.
4) We ended up dialing back torque a bit in the end to smooth out the power delivery but there is plenty on tap. This platform can probably break 700wtq if you really want it to.
5) With all the torque on the road we've set the JB4 to limit boost in 1st and 2nd gear for improved traction. It's a nice JB4 user adjustable option there for you when you need it.

Also worth mentioning the JB4 is different animal than all of the other C63 tuning boxes currently available for the platform. Offering CANbus, fuel control, wireless logging to your smart phone, and a lot more to be discussed later. We're just getting started here.
Whats that at the crank?

Is there an option for burbles, throttle overrun popping?
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jatt143 View Post
any plans on testing C63s?
... It's the same engine. All mods are compatible with both S and non-S.

Originally Posted by V8rumble View Post
Whats that at the crank?

Is there an option for burbles, throttle overrun popping?

Nobody is going to make measure at the crank... You'll have to guesstimate assuming +/-15% drivetrain loss. If you're looking for a dynoqueen and a "look-at-me tune" go somewhere else... JB4 has so much more to offer than that.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by skim7x View Post
... It's the same engine. All mods are compatible with both S and non-S.


Nobody is going to make measure at the crank... You'll have to guesstimate assuming +/-15% drivetrain loss. If you're looking for a dynoqueen and a "look-at-me tune" go somewhere else... JB4 has so much more to offer than that.
Here in the uk dyno figures are given at the crank hence the question!
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by V8rumble View Post
Here in the uk dyno figures are given at the crank hence the question!
Gotcha.

[email protected] While it's still in development, think you guys could develop a reasonably priced CAI this time? Never a fan of the DCI hot-air-intake... I'll do it if I have to, but feel much better with nice cool clean air going in...
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by skim7x View Post
... It's the same engine. All mods are compatible with both S and non-S..
...Agree it's the same engine but I thought S has about 100+ more HP, So wanted to see if these numbers will be better for S
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:33 PM
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Hahaha no... S isn't +100hp... More like +35hp. And once you tune the non-S, it makes the same as the S would on the same tune...
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:39 PM
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Any pics of this BMS intake system or is it just filters? LOL
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:40 PM
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Itís got to be a full intake considering it gained almost 30hp. Filters alone wonít make that big of a difference.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Fame Douglas View Post
Itís got to be a full intake considering it gained almost 30hp. Filters alone wonít make that big of a difference.
I'll bet you is just a DCI
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:53 AM
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Well this is awkward, haha.

It will be a good idea to open a whatsapp group for the JB4 owners. Goes a long way to make a good maps together. Initially the app can be a bit confusing, especially if you want to make a custom map and stuff, so if you guys need any pointers, I would love to help. I can make one for the C63s section and share the link.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by skim7x View Post
Hahaha no... S isn't +100hp... More like +35hp. And once you tune the non-S, it makes the same as the S would on the same tune...
Yes and no actually. Base boost map will be different for s and non-s cars. There is a chance that S cars will pull boost much later than non s cars. So you will get higher ECU base boost for s cars than non s cars.
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by munis View Post
Yes and no actually. Base boost map will be different for s and non-s cars. There is a chance that S cars will pull boost much later than non s cars. So you will get higher ECU base boost for s cars than non s cars.
Lucky for me they are developing on a non-S then, isn't it 😂
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Old 09-25-2018, 01:48 AM
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BMS posted a video of the prototype intake on their Instagram story. Dual cones with piping. It sounds very good.
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Old 09-25-2018, 10:58 AM
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:07 AM
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Thanks for posting. I searched their instagram for a half hour and couldn't find the picture or video. The post a couple back mentions a video...can anyone link to that?

Curious how easy it is to swap the intake on/off. Would rather conduct an annual service visit with the stock boxes on just to avoid any BS from the dealer.

Also, curious about real world results with this vs a dyno with massive fans blowing. Those filters are RIGHT NEXT to the ultra hot aluminum shroud around the turbos. Obviously it is more free flowing than the OEM intake, but the stock box at least sucks in cool ambient air, while this is going to be pulling in incredibly hot air, especially from a stop.

Last edited by ezatnova; 09-25-2018 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:11 AM
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Maybe it's the engineer in me, but having an open-element filter sitting mere inches away from the turbos just doesn't seem like all that good of an idea.

I know they saw power gains from running that configuration, but having your intake air source being the air directly around one of if not the hottest part on the car just doesn't seem all that wise.
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Old 09-25-2018, 12:06 PM
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This is the same style intake that PP-Performance made a few years ago - although theirs had additional heat shielding around the open filters.
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Old 09-25-2018, 12:30 PM
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Not to contradict myself from my post above, but I suppose in comes the argument that intake air temp doesn't matter much on turbo cars since the turbos will ultra-heat the air anyway. Whether they suck in 90 degree air or 400 degree air, it's still going to get super heated and then the intercooler needs to do its job. Still, there could be some maths behind the delta of the rise in temp in the time passing through the turbos.

Hopefully BMS can log some IAT, A/F, timing, etc, on OEM and their intake and compare results in road driving conditions.
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Old 09-25-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by skim7x View Post
That setup looks like it's going to heat soak in 2-3 WOT runs.
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Old 09-25-2018, 03:47 PM
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^^Agreed. As noted previously might pick up power on a dyno with hood open and fans going full speed. With the hood closed I would think massive heat soak with power loss due to ecu pulling timing at the end of a long pull.
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Old 09-25-2018, 06:15 PM
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Haha I called it.

They had a similar setup with the N54 and did extensive testing as there was a lot of concern for heat soak and actually showed no heat soak.

​​​​​​As I mentioned before, I, too, would prefer CAI, but I wouldn't be surprised if They stuck with this configuration, as I alluded to from the beginning. Knew it would be their tried and true DCI
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:09 PM
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both Dinan and Renntech plots their graphs to the engine and not RWHP.

how does the burger tune compare in hp and tq to the others?

Without the "HOT AIR" intake.
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:25 PM
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With forward movement, the "cold" outside air pushes the hot air that is generated from your engine and turbos backwards

And as stated previously, the turbos are so Damn hot it really doesn't matter what air they get as soon as it hits the turbos it will be hot as hell

Science is crazy 🙄
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