2023 C63 Lemon Lawed - Now What?
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2023 C63 Lemon Lawed - Now What?
Here's how it started: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-...ler-limbo.html
Long story short. They still can't get the part or even know when it will be available. My state has the: "Must have been out of commission for thirty days or more." Which I fall under.
All of this over a locked up right rear emergency brake caused by an electronic brake module - unbelievable.
MB says in an email to me: "During the review process we will be evaluating the overall repair history and your state’s statute. Our repurchase review process typically takes 6-8 weeks. We will work diligently to process your paperwork as quickly as possible. The title work can take several weeks due to national delays at our DMVs. We appreciate your patience."
So to me the entire process looks like four months until I get a check. I own the car with title in hand. I'm still paying insurance, paid 10K markup and spent 2K on PPF. From what it looks like from looking online you do get taxes paid reimbursed. Not sure about the other stuff. Especially the ADM of 10K. I can just hear it now. Oh we can't do that.
Long story short. They still can't get the part or even know when it will be available. My state has the: "Must have been out of commission for thirty days or more." Which I fall under.
All of this over a locked up right rear emergency brake caused by an electronic brake module - unbelievable.
MB says in an email to me: "During the review process we will be evaluating the overall repair history and your state’s statute. Our repurchase review process typically takes 6-8 weeks. We will work diligently to process your paperwork as quickly as possible. The title work can take several weeks due to national delays at our DMVs. We appreciate your patience."
So to me the entire process looks like four months until I get a check. I own the car with title in hand. I'm still paying insurance, paid 10K markup and spent 2K on PPF. From what it looks like from looking online you do get taxes paid reimbursed. Not sure about the other stuff. Especially the ADM of 10K. I can just hear it now. Oh we can't do that.
Out Of Control!!
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From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
That sucks. Unfortunately, ADM and cost of PPF will be your loss. ADM is something the dealership slaps on. MB USA has nothing to do with it. It's money pocketed by the dealership and down the drain. You'll never see that again. Insurance wouldn't pay it either if the car had been totaled. This is basically why I never would pay ADM. But yes, as far as I know you get taxes back. They'll take off a use fee for the time you had the car, so you should get MSRP - use fee + taxes back. Definitely a ****ty situation not knowing when they might get the part, but I'm not sure I'd let go of it that easily even if it meets the lemon law criteria at this point. Have they tried getting the module from a salvage car to at least get it back on the road?
Last edited by superswiss; Jan 18, 2024 at 05:42 PM.
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Yeah figured as much on the ADM.
From what I understand it's pretty much the entire front brake booster/ABS assembly and it has the module built in. They won't put in a used part nor would I want one. Problem is there was no part number in the system for 2023 so shop foreman sent photos of mine with part number to Germany. So they've been waiting on Germany to input a part number so they can actually order it. After a month it supposedly shows a part number but you can't order it because it shows status: "Under Pricing Review" - the whole thing at this point is a giant cluster F. Doesn't make any sense but that's the way it is. Trust me I've been blowing up phones to MB and this is all they can/will do. Even though I've bought 10 AMGs over the years. I'm still just a number. Company in my opinion has gotten too big and has their hands in too many pies nowadays. I'm done with MB for now. Looks like I'm going to get a Continental GT Speed. Time for something different.
From what I understand it's pretty much the entire front brake booster/ABS assembly and it has the module built in. They won't put in a used part nor would I want one. Problem is there was no part number in the system for 2023 so shop foreman sent photos of mine with part number to Germany. So they've been waiting on Germany to input a part number so they can actually order it. After a month it supposedly shows a part number but you can't order it because it shows status: "Under Pricing Review" - the whole thing at this point is a giant cluster F. Doesn't make any sense but that's the way it is. Trust me I've been blowing up phones to MB and this is all they can/will do. Even though I've bought 10 AMGs over the years. I'm still just a number. Company in my opinion has gotten too big and has their hands in too many pies nowadays. I'm done with MB for now. Looks like I'm going to get a Continental GT Speed. Time for something different.
Last edited by benzbell; Jan 18, 2024 at 06:09 PM. Reason: spelling
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
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From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
Too bad. Do you know if the part number is different from previous model years? Strange that by this point in the lifecycle a core part such as this wouldn't be available to order and still needs a pricing review. First car this part ever failed on?
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C43
What Superswiss said. I just helped a friend through the process in CA. The use fee reduction will likely be higher than you think, which may result in you needing to contest the buy-back amount. Good luck.
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I asked that very same question. Since there was no MY 2022 in the US. Could they just use one from a 2021. They don't know if there were any changes or not between the model years. Even if the part is the same as a 2021 the 2023 would have something slightly changed in the part number anyways. That's just how they do it for whatever reason.
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From: Houston, TX
2010 BMW E63 M6 Coupe 2023 AMG C63s Coupe 2005 YZF-R1
This is really unfortunate, really sucks to hear. As @superswiss said, you won’t get back any ADM or money spent on aftermarket upgrades. Those are all on you. You will however get credit for taxes paid.
When I was researching lemon law for my ‘21, it works something like this for a car with no liens. You’re charged a usage fee per mile at the point your car was first brought in for repairs. IRC, that usage fee is somewhere around $1/mile. So for example if your purchase price was $115k taxes included and you had 10k miles on the clock when you first dropped it off for repairs, they’ll buy your car back for $105k. That doesn’t really look appealing on paper, but it’s a good $10k more than a dealer would offer you on trade in. I hate to say it but in your case this is gonna be a much bigger hit because of the $12k you won’t recoup from the ADM and PPF.
For lemoned cars with liens, the buyback refund is based on the usage fee as well as how many payments were made/remaining.
When I was researching lemon law for my ‘21, it works something like this for a car with no liens. You’re charged a usage fee per mile at the point your car was first brought in for repairs. IRC, that usage fee is somewhere around $1/mile. So for example if your purchase price was $115k taxes included and you had 10k miles on the clock when you first dropped it off for repairs, they’ll buy your car back for $105k. That doesn’t really look appealing on paper, but it’s a good $10k more than a dealer would offer you on trade in. I hate to say it but in your case this is gonna be a much bigger hit because of the $12k you won’t recoup from the ADM and PPF.
For lemoned cars with liens, the buyback refund is based on the usage fee as well as how many payments were made/remaining.
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I won't go down without a fight. This process looks like it could take as long as four months until I have a check in hand. In the meantime I'm still paying car insurance. What about reimbursement for that? I'll try and negotiate the ADM and/or get them to give me a three year extended warranty on my GLE 63 or something. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the situation all because of an emergency brake being stuck.
I was also told once it gets to the end of the process a third party arbitrator will present the buy back offer from MB.
I was also told once it gets to the end of the process a third party arbitrator will present the buy back offer from MB.
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Joined: Jan 2020
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From: Sydney
C63 S Coupe
Now what? Avoid Mercedes at all costs
I'm glad for your sake it was lemon lawed. Imagine if this dragged on for a day longer?
After your experience you and others need to avoid Mercedes ESPECIALLY the w205 altogether. The w205/c205 etc amg platform is one of the most troublesome and disappointing cars ever built just look at all the recalls. Problems every where from prefacelift to facelift the list goes on..... biggest piece of shiet made vehicle EVER
You've dodged a huge bullet now it's time to purchase with another brand man. Unless Mercedes are willing to cover all your out of pocket costs and offer you a spectacular offer on something special I would seriously steer clear from the brand altogether.
After your experience you and others need to avoid Mercedes ESPECIALLY the w205 altogether. The w205/c205 etc amg platform is one of the most troublesome and disappointing cars ever built just look at all the recalls. Problems every where from prefacelift to facelift the list goes on..... biggest piece of shiet made vehicle EVER
You've dodged a huge bullet now it's time to purchase with another brand man. Unless Mercedes are willing to cover all your out of pocket costs and offer you a spectacular offer on something special I would seriously steer clear from the brand altogether.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 11,398
Likes: 5,323
From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
I'm glad for your sake it was lemon lawed. Imagine if this dragged on for a day longer?
After your experience you and others need to avoid Mercedes ESPECIALLY the w205 altogether. The w205/c205 etc amg platform is one of the most troublesome and disappointing cars ever built just look at all the recalls. Problems every where from prefacelift to facelift the list goes on..... biggest piece of shiet made vehicle EVER
You've dodged a huge bullet now it's time to purchase with another brand man. Unless Mercedes are willing to cover all your out of pocket costs and offer you a spectacular offer on something special I would seriously steer clear from the brand altogether.
After your experience you and others need to avoid Mercedes ESPECIALLY the w205 altogether. The w205/c205 etc amg platform is one of the most troublesome and disappointing cars ever built just look at all the recalls. Problems every where from prefacelift to facelift the list goes on..... biggest piece of shiet made vehicle EVER
You've dodged a huge bullet now it's time to purchase with another brand man. Unless Mercedes are willing to cover all your out of pocket costs and offer you a spectacular offer on something special I would seriously steer clear from the brand altogether.
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2019 AMG GT R
I'm glad for your sake it was lemon lawed. Imagine if this dragged on for a day longer?
After your experience you and others need to avoid Mercedes ESPECIALLY the w205 altogether. The w205/c205 etc amg platform is one of the most troublesome and disappointing cars ever built just look at all the recalls. Problems every where from prefacelift to facelift the list goes on..... biggest piece of shiet made vehicle EVER
You've dodged a huge bullet now it's time to purchase with another brand man. Unless Mercedes are willing to cover all your out of pocket costs and offer you a spectacular offer on something special I would seriously steer clear from the brand altogether.
After your experience you and others need to avoid Mercedes ESPECIALLY the w205 altogether. The w205/c205 etc amg platform is one of the most troublesome and disappointing cars ever built just look at all the recalls. Problems every where from prefacelift to facelift the list goes on..... biggest piece of shiet made vehicle EVER
You've dodged a huge bullet now it's time to purchase with another brand man. Unless Mercedes are willing to cover all your out of pocket costs and offer you a spectacular offer on something special I would seriously steer clear from the brand altogether.
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From: San Diego,CA
2021 AMG C63S, 2008 C300
If it’s any help at this point in time the part number for the ESP module alone is A2059002948 that comes off my 21 c63s. That’s the number directly off the module. The hydraulic part of the assembly is a different part number at A2059062948. Question is if Mercedes sells the parts separate or one assembly. Based on your description the ESP module failed on the electronic side of the assembly. For ****s and giggles eBay has one available for a VIN correlated to a 21 c63s. Sorry to hear about your troubles.
heres the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/14535700677...mis&media=COPY
heres the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/14535700677...mis&media=COPY
Last edited by Shlick96; Jan 19, 2024 at 08:51 PM.
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If it’s any help at this point in time the part number for the ESP module alone is A2059002948 that comes off my 21 c63s. That’s the number directly off the module. The hydraulic part of the assembly is a different part number at A2059002948. Question is if Mercedes sells the parts separate or one assembly. Based on your description the ESP module failed on the electronic side of the assembly. For ****s and giggles eBay has one available for a VIN correlated to a 21 c63s. Sorry to hear about your troubles.
heres the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/14535700677...mis&media=COPY
heres the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/14535700677...mis&media=COPY
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From: Plainfield IL
Amg C43
I assume mb corporate is involved?
my dealer tried to “ take care” on my issue and they wanted to try & bend me over a barrel.
I had a “CPO” that was a problem from day 1
i didn’t buy new so no lemon in Illinois
but they Also could not repair issue so I got what I paid for it plus my sales tax plus $6k Benz purchase credit
would have not gotten another Benz but the incentives were too good not too
my dealer tried to “ take care” on my issue and they wanted to try & bend me over a barrel.
I had a “CPO” that was a problem from day 1
i didn’t buy new so no lemon in Illinois
but they Also could not repair issue so I got what I paid for it plus my sales tax plus $6k Benz purchase credit
would have not gotten another Benz but the incentives were too good not too
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From: Houston, TX
2010 BMW E63 M6 Coupe 2023 AMG C63s Coupe 2005 YZF-R1
Thanks. That part would probably work but the dealer wouldn't install it. If there was no warranty that'd be the way to go. Hate to give up the car as it's irreplaceable because of so few 2023s and the spec. Not to mention the hassle, stress and all of the BS involved with this.
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From: San Diego,CA
2021 AMG C63S, 2008 C300
That would be the route I would take as well. I’d make sure I would go to a Euro specialty shop so they can Program/Calibrate the used module to the vehicle. I would not take a hit like that without exercising all possible solutions. I’m almost 99% positive they didn’t change much software in the module from 21-23 model years. You don’t even have to change the whole assembly you can just unbolt the electronic portion off the hydraulics and re-install, program/code it to your chassis. I have done this on my c350 when the ESP module failed I got one off eBay unbolted the module and installed it into the car without having to bleed any brake lines or hydraulics. I had to code it of course but that comes with most Mercedes modules anyway.
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Joined: Jun 2021
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From: Houston, TX
2010 BMW E63 M6 Coupe 2023 AMG C63s Coupe 2005 YZF-R1
That would be the route I would take as well. I’d make sure I would go to a Euro specialty shop so they can Program/Calibrate the used module to the vehicle. I would not take a hit like that without exercising all possible solutions. I’m almost 99% positive they didn’t change much software in the module from 21-23 model years. You don’t even have to change the whole assembly you can just unbolt the electronic portion off the hydraulics and re-install, program/code it to your chassis. I have done this on my c350 when the ESP module failed I got one off eBay unbolted the module and installed it into the car without having to bleed any brake lines or hydraulics. I had to code it of course but that comes with most Mercedes modules anyway.
I highly doubt the part has changed at all, everything else from our ‘23’s is pretty much identical to the ‘19-21 FL’s. It’s probably one of those things where they just never bothered to update the system with part numbers for 2023 models.
This is somewhat related in relation to updating databases so I thought I’d share. When I was trying to get my ‘23 coupe added to my State Farm policy, they had no idea a ‘23 C63S even existed. The VIN just wouldn’t come up in their system. So they ended up rating my car as a GT 63 for the first couple of months while my agent opened a ticket with underwriting to get the ‘23 C63S coupe added in their system. They eventually got the rating part corrected and issued me a refund for the difference but to this day they haven’t totally updated their system. They replaced AMG GT 63 with AMG 0 63 on my id card even though no such car exists. So my point is it sounds like MB just never got around to cross referencing the 2019-21 part with the 2023 model even though by all likelihood, it’s the identical part.
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2023 Urus Performante 2018 Huracan Perf. - 2017 Ferrari 488 GTB
I'll be pressing them for the ADM and insurance premium reimbursement while it sits there. Only thing I'll let slide is the PPF but I may just peel it off since it's mine. A refund is a refund. They can do a clawback with the selling dealer for the ADM that's not my problem. My problem is dealing with this mess and being made whole. I'm not going to get into buying a used part on ebay and more screwing around. Point is I shouldn't have to.
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 568
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2007 E350
I'm glad for your sake it was lemon lawed. Imagine if this dragged on for a day longer?
After your experience you and others need to avoid Mercedes ESPECIALLY the w205 altogether. The w205/c205 etc amg platform is one of the most troublesome and disappointing cars ever built just look at all the recalls. Problems every where from prefacelift to facelift the list goes on..... biggest piece of shiet made vehicle EVER
You've dodged a huge bullet now it's time to purchase with another brand man. Unless Mercedes are willing to cover all your out of pocket costs and offer you a spectacular offer on something special I would seriously steer clear from the brand altogether.
After your experience you and others need to avoid Mercedes ESPECIALLY the w205 altogether. The w205/c205 etc amg platform is one of the most troublesome and disappointing cars ever built just look at all the recalls. Problems every where from prefacelift to facelift the list goes on..... biggest piece of shiet made vehicle EVER
You've dodged a huge bullet now it's time to purchase with another brand man. Unless Mercedes are willing to cover all your out of pocket costs and offer you a spectacular offer on something special I would seriously steer clear from the brand altogether.
my 2018 coupe been way better versus the Toyota's and Honda i’ve own over the years. Up till now the only problem I had is purge valve and ignition coil going bad causing misfires. I’ve been on pure 900 since 10k miles and now 75k miles. Only 3 recalls for me. Steering software update, steering rack and seat belt not retracting. Versus my 2018 tacoma, dead battery within 2 years, constant check engine light, water damage tail lights as it hasn’t been sealed properly & same thing with my first car which was a 2012 accord. That was the worst car by far, so many problems
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 544
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From: Sydney
C63 S Coupe
Suddenly everyone has forgotten the crazy trouble these cars had especially with the prefacelift I mean where do I start.... from coil packs, electronic differential lock to sonar noises from the suspension.
Don't get me wrong I totally love this car but the issues I've experienced as an owner for just under a decade have been challenging for me and I would just wouldn't recommend people buying one unless they have have a lot of spare cash ready for problems.
Here is a complete list of issues I've had since 2017-2018:
- Coil packs dying twice in 3 years
- 2 injectors stuck
- Rear electronic diff died
- Front ball joints
- Bent wheels twice
- Punctured stock front coolers twice
- Leaking cooling hoses
- Whining prop shaft (still not fixed)
- Creaks in the front fender
- Creaks in the front seats
- Exhaust flaps getting jammed 6 times now
- Fading bumper trim
- Fading roof trim in front of sunroof 3 years into ownership
- Cracking leather seats after 6 months
- Purge valves
- Pulleys/harmonic balancers replaced twice
- Intermittent clunk from the front end
- Both active engine mounts cracked
- Suspension stuck in Sport Plus
A few other things as well that I can't remember. Yeah I guess my car might be worst case and facelifts addressed a few problems here and there blah blah but it's something any buyer should know if looking at buying one of these cars especially USED.
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 568
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2007 E350
I'm not talking about the engine I'm talking about the whole build quality of the car. Look at your car man your exhaust flaps are still giving you grief after all these years....
Suddenly everyone has forgotten the crazy trouble these cars had especially with the prefacelift I mean where do I start.... from coil packs, electronic differential lock to sonar noises from the suspension.
Don't get me wrong I totally love this car but the issues I've experienced as an owner for just under a decade have been challenging for me and I would just wouldn't recommend people buying one unless they have have a lot of spare cash ready for problems.
Here is a complete list of issues I've had since 2017-2018:
A few other things as well that I can't remember. Yeah I guess my car might be worst case and facelifts addressed a few problems here and there blah blah but it's something any buyer should know if looking at buying one of these cars especially USED.
Suddenly everyone has forgotten the crazy trouble these cars had especially with the prefacelift I mean where do I start.... from coil packs, electronic differential lock to sonar noises from the suspension.
Don't get me wrong I totally love this car but the issues I've experienced as an owner for just under a decade have been challenging for me and I would just wouldn't recommend people buying one unless they have have a lot of spare cash ready for problems.
Here is a complete list of issues I've had since 2017-2018:
- Coil packs dying twice in 3 years
- 2 injectors stuck
- Rear electronic diff died
- Front ball joints
- Bent wheels twice
- Punctured stock front coolers twice
- Leaking cooling hoses
- Whining prop shaft (still not fixed)
- Creaks in the front fender
- Creaks in the front seats
- Exhaust flaps getting jammed 6 times now
- Fading bumper trim
- Fading roof trim in front of sunroof 3 years into ownership
- Cracking leather seats after 6 months
- Purge valves
- Pulleys/harmonic balancers replaced twice
- Intermittent clunk from the front end
- Both active engine mounts cracked
- Suspension stuck in Sport Plus
A few other things as well that I can't remember. Yeah I guess my car might be worst case and facelifts addressed a few problems here and there blah blah but it's something any buyer should know if looking at buying one of these cars especially USED.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,718
Likes: 608
From: Australia
⏱️ 700HP Facelift converted C63 S Coupe with Drexler 3.06 plated LSD
All my issues came around the 3 years into ownership just out of warranty - smashed me.
I've owned over 25 cars so far in my life and the C63 sort of felt like I was restoring an old car at times 🤷♀️
Still love this car and she's the longest I've held onto a car for.
Last edited by Jimmy_c63s; Jan 21, 2024 at 06:48 AM. Reason: I forgot to say...
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 11,398
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From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
There were definitely some issues during the warranty period even for me, but all covered at no cost and nowhere near that long of a list. The early model years always have more issues. Looks like you guys down under used to have a crappy warranty, which should be considered in this discussion. Sounds like you only had 3 years and not everything was covered. We have a 4 year/50k miles warranty here in the USA, but you guys now have an even better warranty since April 1, 2020. 5 years with unlimited mileage and it covers everything.
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/mercedes-benz-announces-five-year-warranty-in-australia-123169/
https://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/passengercars/services/warranty.html
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/mercedes-benz-announces-five-year-warranty-in-australia-123169/
https://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/passengercars/services/warranty.html
Last edited by superswiss; Jan 21, 2024 at 12:26 PM.
