ItalianJoe1

I have found some scattered info here and there while searching, but I'm hoping someone will share if they've actually done it.

I need bigger/better brakes on my CL. I routinely race the car, and I've cooked another set of high quality rotors in 4k miles. I'm very hard on my cars and upgrading brakes is part of my normal routine, I'm just looking at what people have done and what works.

I know I can get all the 65 parts, but they are rare/expensive and the rotors are insanely expensive.

I've seen 55K swaps? Who has actually done it and what all was needed?

Anybody have any other suggestions?

BlownV8

This seems like a good deal. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CEIKA-Bolt-o...lWs4Tw&vxp=mtr

ItalianJoe1

Interesting, hadn't realized that there were companies building stuff like that, makes sense. Still looking at 1500 for a kit that uses non-standard parts, replacement pads/rotors might be an issue. It's good info though.

Welwynnick

Ceika? They're an interesting company; not on my radar before.

They say their big brakes fit the CL600 but not the S600 strangely. Lack of customers as yet, I suppose.

They say you can fit other companies' brake pads, which is very sensible.

I'm very tempted.

nick

g60wall

Replace spindles from S55. Get caliper from S55,SL55 ,E55 or CLS55. Can get calipers and rotors and pads for the front for $1200

tusabes

Agreed get s55 brakes

or if you want to spend big $$! Get s65 brakes

booesq

Yeah; now I'm tempted, too!

Welwynnick

I've decided to pursue this a little further. There's an interesting thread here where someone fitted S55 / E55 8-piston calipers and ML63 rotors onto an R500 (I think).

https://mbworld.org/forums/r-class-w...de-brakes.html

Interesting story, and got me thinking. My S600 has European-spec 360mm brakes and those fantastic four-pad calipers. Must be the best calipers anywhere. What I'd really like are S65/CL65 390mm two-piece rotors, but they're very expensive.

I found that some models of the ML63 have 390mm one-piece rotors, and these are available for the sort of money that big brakes ought to cost.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3610854383...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

So I'm wondering if I can combine S600 calipers and ML63 rotors? The stock caliper adapters won't fit, so I'd need some different adapters, but this does seem to be quite a big business, so there must be someone that would do it:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Vehicle-Pa...aliper+adapter
http://www.ebay.com/sch/eBay-Motors/...dapter&_sop=16

Nick

Welwynnick

The other thing I found was a Taiwanese company called PB Brakes, who seem to have a good mix of applications, value and reputation:

http://pbbrakes.com/brake-kits/merce...brake-kit.html

For the W215, they offer 380mm / 8 pot front kits for $1637 or 405mm / 8 pots for $2015. The appear to offer the same range of calipers and rotors for every car, and achieve compatibility with specific bells and caliper adapters for each model.

I got them to send me templates for the 380 & 405 kits, and they both fitted my 20" wheels.

Nick

pmercury

iTrader: (2)

don't you have brembo front and rear already ?

Welwynnick

S600TT in US, Japan and Australian markets only had the same 345mm / 4 pot brakes as the S600NA.

European TT's had the same 360mm / 8 pot brakes as the S55K.

Nick

pmercury

iTrader: (2)

oh wow, good to know, thx

Welwynnick

Ever noticed how big brakes always seem to be cross-drilled? I've long thought this was marketing driven, and find them noisy in use. The holes block with dust and rust, so what's the point?

I'd really like good old-fashioned plain discs - just big ones, and PB Brakes offer the option not to have them drilled, so I'm very tempted.

One of the things the S600 does so well is push you forwards, backwards and sideways at high speed, while disguising how hard it's working in doing so. When all that work is accompanied by noise and vibration, it can't help but spoil the illusion. I think drilled rotors undermine that illusion, so I want them quiet.

Nick

BlownV8

Cross drilled rotors came to be a long time ago due to poor brake pad technology. The brakes, when hot, off gassed and without the holes it caused pressure between the pad and rotor so you would have decreased breaking ability.

Brake pad technology is so much better now that the holes are not needed but do still serve a purpose. They do allow water to escape from the surface of the pad. However, slotted rotors can do the same without the loss of rotor surface area that the drilled rotors cause. Most buy the drilled rotors because the look cool.

ItalianJoe1

Slotted rotors are the best function design, if you look at current race cars that's all you will see, light slots, no holes. They do look cool but yeah it's largely marketing hype at this point.

I guess i'm gonna get 55 calipers and CL55 rotors, as it should all be fairly simple to bolt on, just drill the spindles for the 8 pot calipers. Still gonna be $800+ though so i'll deal with the warped rotors for a little longer. I've spent a ton on this car in the last year, gotta enjoy it now that it's working properly.

g60wall

My S65 has the slotted rotors ($1200 a piece) I opted for those over the brembo rotors. Having both cars it's really wild how good the S55 brakes are. The S65 brakes are on another level, they make the car feel light! I am going to do the swap on the S600tt, I'm going to just get S55 spindles of eBay and the calipers will bolt up stock! The S600 with 345mm brakes is just not enough especially with the tune. It fine for the wife but not for when I drive it, lol.

Welwynnick

Interesting comments, and kind of what I was hoping to hear. I don't want to feel like the braking system is being stressed - no heavy load or soft pedal.

Some time ago when my car was all-stock, I had a wheel speed sensor fail on me, so I lost all the electronic driver's aids. Therefore I had a bit of fun and pushed and poked it about the limits. And a scary thing it was, too.

At the limit in cornering, the front end pushes wide.
At the limit in braking, the rear wheels lock first.

This means the front end doesn't have enough tire or enough brakes.

I fixed the tire thing by fitting rear wheels at the front, and that transformed the chassis. Besides the tangible things like grip and balance, one of the great subjective impressions was, again, that the car felt lighter. A great feeling.

I guess I do want a heavy powerful car because I want space and comfort and refinement, but I still don't want to drive a bus. I don't think it has to be like that. Getting the spec right - being able to properly manage the weight at the front end - seems to be key.

To those with 345mm/4-pot front brakes, and having owned various W220's, I'm afraid I've never been that impressed with the 360/8-pots. The pedal is always soft, and they do feel like they're working hard. I think I'm convinced that I want a front brake upgrade.

Nick

Welwynnick

I'm 99% sure the S55K brakes bolt straight onto the stock suspension knuckle. The caliper is a different configuration to the 4-pot calipers, and it has it's own adapter.



Nick

g60wall

The S65 brakes just clamp down with such authority it hard to modulate them for smooth braking at times. The slotted rotors are like cheese graters, and there is an audible hum when braking hard. I would say the brake performance of the S65 is the most impressive thing about it. I am going to change my pads on the S55 to OEM from akebonos. I feel like they hinder the performance of the brakes. What brakes are you leaning towards?

Welwynnick

The brakes are better than the engine? Wow!

If we could persuade somebody like Ceika or PB to make 390mm stock spec brakes, I'd snap them up. I think a lot of people would.

Unlike other companies, PB don't charge that much more for the larger brakes, so although 380mm would probably be good, I'm leaning towards plain 405mm PB brakes, plus spacers on my caliper mounts. Plus I happen to have 20" wheels, so I can take advantage of the space down there. I've been replacing the front wheel bearings on my DD today, so I've had no chance to check the template clearance on my 20x10 ML63 wheels.

Nick

EDIT: I take that back, the 380's are only 32mm thick, so I don't think that would be a good idea.

EDIT 2: Just had a nasty thought. I think the MB pads are deeper than the Touareg/Cayenne-type pads on the PB calipers, so they might overhang the edges of the rotors, which I'd like to avoid. Going by PB's email and website drawings, their pads are about 62mm deep, and the inside face of the disc friction area is about 67mm. Better check my pads.... turns out they measure 65mm deep, so they are indeed deeper, but should fit OK. Phew.

g60wall

The brakes are the most unique thing on the S65 opposed to the S600,S55. If you can figure out a proper 380-405 swap I'll copy you! 15in rotors would be perfect 👌🏽

Welwynnick

Have you got 20" wheels?

Welwynnick

It's just occurred to me that if I went for 405 front brakes, I'd have to get a 20" spare wheel. Obvious really, but not something I'd planned for.


Nick

g60wall

This would be a great reason to get some, what would the offset need to be?

Welwynnick

I have two S600's, one on 20x9.5 ET40, and one on 20x10 ET46. Both all-round.

10" does fit, but it's really too wide. 9.5 is ideal.

ET40 is too low - they tend to rub on the outside. ET46 is too high - they tend to rub on the inside, but might be OK with 9.5" wide wheels.

My feeling is that ET43 all round is ideal, and that's what W221 tend to run.

Nick