W215 M275 Manual Transmission conversion
W215 M275 Manual Transmission conversion
06-28-2017, 04:49 AM
#2
Member
Post links, details etc....I would love to do that conversion. I will be very interested in how he will get around the TCU/ECU since they communicate. Also how will the eis know what gear it is in so it can start, as in it needs to be in park or neutral. The software coding needed would be extensive and expensive and probably more then the transmission will cost. Maybe I am wrong but I am sure there are a lot of unseen challenges, I hope he can do it and would love to have me a 6 gear manual.
06-28-2017, 06:21 AM
#3
Post links, details etc....I would love to do that conversion. I will be very interested in how he will get around the TCU/ECU since they communicate. Also how will the eis know what gear it is in so it can start, as in it needs to be in park or neutral. The software coding needed would be extensive and expensive and probably more then the transmission will cost. Maybe I am wrong but I am sure there are a lot of unseen challenges, I hope he can do it and would love to have me a 6 gear manual.
all I can see is I have seen the transmission run on a S600
ME-SFI 2.7.1 parameter 0293 is customable to set transmission
ETC depends on what base of transmission he works on
sure will be some work and FUN !
06-28-2017, 05:58 PM
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
The coding probably isn't that bad, as long as the M/E was used in some application that was manual, it can be told this car is. Once you do that, it stops caring about the TCU and you just need a clutch switch on your clutch pedal for the starter circuit, as a manual car would have from factory.
I've done the swap from auto-manual on a BMW using all factory parts, and once you have the diagrams and understand what the factory system wants, it's not that bad to deliver it. We kept cruise control and all factory functions, using coding of the original M/E and just deleting the harness/TCM from the car, it all worked like stock.
I've done the swap from auto-manual on a BMW using all factory parts, and once you have the diagrams and understand what the factory system wants, it's not that bad to deliver it. We kept cruise control and all factory functions, using coding of the original M/E and just deleting the harness/TCM from the car, it all worked like stock.
06-28-2017, 06:27 PM
#5
The coding probably isn't that bad, as long as the M/E was used in some application that was manual, it can be told this car is. Once you do that, it stops caring about the TCU and you just need a clutch switch on your clutch pedal for the starter circuit, as a manual car would have from factory.
I've done the swap from auto-manual on a BMW using all factory parts, and once you have the diagrams and understand what the factory system wants, it's not that bad to deliver it. We kept cruise control and all factory functions, using coding of the original M/E and just deleting the harness/TCM from the car, it all worked like stock.
I've done the swap from auto-manual on a BMW using all factory parts, and once you have the diagrams and understand what the factory system wants, it's not that bad to deliver it. We kept cruise control and all factory functions, using coding of the original M/E and just deleting the harness/TCM from the car, it all worked like stock.
I believe that, but he must know how to i guess
only a bit worried to end up in a hospital with a manual trans !
06-28-2017, 06:36 PM
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
There won't be much out there that can handle the power these engines produce. You need a diesel truck transmission that is designed for 800+lb/ft, because that's what these can easily generate and there just isn't any other manual trans out there from factory that is anywhere near that.
You could do a built T56 or similar, but then it turns full custom, and I feel like you will ruin the nature of the car by hacking things up to make a manual fit.
If I could squeeze one of these engines into a CLK or something with a manual... now we're talking.
You could do a built T56 or similar, but then it turns full custom, and I feel like you will ruin the nature of the car by hacking things up to make a manual fit.
If I could squeeze one of these engines into a CLK or something with a manual... now we're talking.
06-28-2017, 07:02 PM
#7
There won't be much out there that can handle the power these engines produce. You need a diesel truck transmission that is designed for 800+lb/ft, because that's what these can easily generate and there just isn't any other manual trans out there from factory that is anywhere near that.
You could do a built T56 or similar, but then it turns full custom, and I feel like you will ruin the nature of the car by hacking things up to make a manual fit.
If I could squeeze one of these engines into a CLK or something with a manual... now we're talking.
You could do a built T56 or similar, but then it turns full custom, and I feel like you will ruin the nature of the car by hacking things up to make a manual fit.
If I could squeeze one of these engines into a CLK or something with a manual... now we're talking.
I don' want other brands trans like you
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07-08-2017, 03:41 AM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
BMW don't make transmissions, they just buy Getrag and ZF. Nothing wrong with them. I'd rather have a ZF transmission in mine than the MB box. No matter.
This is a very interesting project indeed. One of the greatest cars I ever drove was a TWR modified Jaguar XJS, with a tuned 6 litre V12 (well before Jaguar ever made them), a 5 speed manual, and uprated steering, brakes and suspension.
I chickened-out of buying, but I've never forgotten it. When you go from 4 to 6 to 8 cylinder engines you get a progressive improvement in power and refinement, and that progression is all the more apparent with manual gearboxes. But a V12 isn't just a diminishing returns / marginal improvement over other configurations - it's a leap into infinity in some respects.
Because the power strokes are close together, you get a uniform power delivery during the rotation of the engine, that even a good V8 can't approach. The engine becomes almost infinitely flexible, so it doesn't just pull a wider range of engine speeds smoothly, it feels like it will pull ANY engine speed. It's jump between feeling like an internal combustion engine and feeling like an electric motor or a turbine.
Jaguar famously claimed that their V12 manual could be started in fifth gear without using the clutch. As long as the engine was warm and you weren't facing up a hill, you could put it in fifth with the clutch in and just start the engine. The starter motor would set the car off from standstill and very slowly accelerate the car until the engine reached about one hundred rpm, when it would fire, and accelerate the car away. 0 - 160 or so without touching the clutch. Almost infinite flexibility. There's absolutely nothing like it, and all that jaw-dropping talent is almost completely hidden by that slushy but tough autobox.
Nick
This is a very interesting project indeed. One of the greatest cars I ever drove was a TWR modified Jaguar XJS, with a tuned 6 litre V12 (well before Jaguar ever made them), a 5 speed manual, and uprated steering, brakes and suspension.
I chickened-out of buying, but I've never forgotten it. When you go from 4 to 6 to 8 cylinder engines you get a progressive improvement in power and refinement, and that progression is all the more apparent with manual gearboxes. But a V12 isn't just a diminishing returns / marginal improvement over other configurations - it's a leap into infinity in some respects.
Because the power strokes are close together, you get a uniform power delivery during the rotation of the engine, that even a good V8 can't approach. The engine becomes almost infinitely flexible, so it doesn't just pull a wider range of engine speeds smoothly, it feels like it will pull ANY engine speed. It's jump between feeling like an internal combustion engine and feeling like an electric motor or a turbine.
Jaguar famously claimed that their V12 manual could be started in fifth gear without using the clutch. As long as the engine was warm and you weren't facing up a hill, you could put it in fifth with the clutch in and just start the engine. The starter motor would set the car off from standstill and very slowly accelerate the car until the engine reached about one hundred rpm, when it would fire, and accelerate the car away. 0 - 160 or so without touching the clutch. Almost infinite flexibility. There's absolutely nothing like it, and all that jaw-dropping talent is almost completely hidden by that slushy but tough autobox.
Nick
The following users liked this post:
pmercury (07-08-2017)
07-08-2017, 05:22 AM
#12
BMW don't make transmissions, they just buy Getrag and ZF. Nothing wrong with them. I'd rather have a ZF transmission in mine than the MB box. No matter.
This is a very interesting project indeed. One of the greatest cars I ever drove was a TWR modified Jaguar XJS, with a tuned 6 litre V12 (well before Jaguar ever made them), a 5 speed manual, and uprated steering, brakes and suspension.
I chickened-out of buying, but I've never forgotten it. When you go from 4 to 6 to 8 cylinder engines you get a progressive improvement in power and refinement, and that progression is all the more apparent with manual gearboxes. But a V12 isn't just a diminishing returns / marginal improvement over other configurations - it's a leap into infinity in some respects.
Because the power strokes are close together, you get a uniform power delivery during the rotation of the engine, that even a good V8 can't approach. The engine becomes almost infinitely flexible, so it doesn't just pull a wider range of engine speeds smoothly, it feels like it will pull ANY engine speed. It's jump between feeling like an internal combustion engine and feeling like an electric motor or a turbine.
Jaguar famously claimed that their V12 manual could be started in fifth gear without using the clutch. As long as the engine was warm and you weren't facing up a hill, you could put it in fifth with the clutch in and just start the engine. The starter motor would set the car off from standstill and very slowly accelerate the car until the engine reached about one hundred rpm, when it would fire, and accelerate the car away. 0 - 160 or so without touching the clutch. Almost infinite flexibility. There's absolutely nothing like it, and all that jaw-dropping talent is almost completely hidden by that slushy but tough autobox.
Nick
This is a very interesting project indeed. One of the greatest cars I ever drove was a TWR modified Jaguar XJS, with a tuned 6 litre V12 (well before Jaguar ever made them), a 5 speed manual, and uprated steering, brakes and suspension.
I chickened-out of buying, but I've never forgotten it. When you go from 4 to 6 to 8 cylinder engines you get a progressive improvement in power and refinement, and that progression is all the more apparent with manual gearboxes. But a V12 isn't just a diminishing returns / marginal improvement over other configurations - it's a leap into infinity in some respects.
Because the power strokes are close together, you get a uniform power delivery during the rotation of the engine, that even a good V8 can't approach. The engine becomes almost infinitely flexible, so it doesn't just pull a wider range of engine speeds smoothly, it feels like it will pull ANY engine speed. It's jump between feeling like an internal combustion engine and feeling like an electric motor or a turbine.
Jaguar famously claimed that their V12 manual could be started in fifth gear without using the clutch. As long as the engine was warm and you weren't facing up a hill, you could put it in fifth with the clutch in and just start the engine. The starter motor would set the car off from standstill and very slowly accelerate the car until the engine reached about one hundred rpm, when it would fire, and accelerate the car away. 0 - 160 or so without touching the clutch. Almost infinite flexibility. There's absolutely nothing like it, and all that jaw-dropping talent is almost completely hidden by that slushy but tough autobox.
Nick
so if you say so, I will definatly try it and have fun
+ it will be a 5000 km ride (3100 miles), 2500 to Hungary and back, nice little holiday !
thx a lot !
07-02-2018, 01:08 AM
#13
07-13-2018, 10:21 PM
#15
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Guthrie, OK
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SL55, Opel GT, 70 LT-1, BMW 745 turbo, MRoadster, 49 Stude truck, 69 Z/28, Ferrari project
I will be watching this closely. I am looking at purchasing an 05 or 06 SL65. If I can't find one at a decent price, then may go with a modified SL600.
I have converted 6 different BMW's from auto to stick. Only one of them had the transmission controller and the ecu integrated. They were in the same box. That was my 745i factory turbo car. The only real trick on that one was figuring out how to get the "full throttle" signal to the ecu. The signal went to the transmission, and the trans side of the ecu sent the signal to the engine side. Once you know what wires to use to bypass the trans side, no problem. The 745i was never offered in a stick shift. There are a few guys out there claiming that BMW made 12 of them, but I have never seen any factory proof that it actually happened. I have a tko600 in the shop with only 2000 miles on it, but would not trust it behind either a stock SL65 or a modified SL600. Only good for 600 pounds of torque.
Here are a couple of pics of the 745i. I have modified lots of things on this car, but nothing changed the character of the car as much as the manual trans conversion. I have 320,000 miles on the car now. Those are 35 year old Water Buffalo seats. Not a tear anywhere. They wear like steel.
07-15-2018, 04:45 AM
#17
MBWorld Fanatic!
Anyway, long live V12 manuals, they're really special.
Nick
