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THIS THREAD IS CLOSED FOR NOW. TUNER WILL NOT TOUCH CAR WITH MY CURRENT GOALS SO BUILD IS NO LONGER IN BUDGET IF I WANT TO KEEP OEM FUNCTIONALITY OF EVERYTHING. I WILL BE RETURNING TO THIS THREAD IN THE FUTURE WHEN MONEY IS NO LONGER AN ISSUE TO CONTINUE WHAT I'VE STARTED. THANKS! 6/20/2022
Current Car Mods
Custom CAI
Weistec "Stage 2" race tune (speed limiter removed, secondary O2s removed)
Shorty headers
No cats + full dual straight pipe w/ resonated magnaflow x-pipe dumped right at the diff
Background:
I am in the process of saving up a sum of money to make a major performance modification to my W208 CLK55 AMG with the STOCK m113 engine. The original idea had been to simply purchase a M113K supercharger + necessary pieces to make it work. My cost estimate for this (labor done by myself) was between $5,000 and $7,000 which was priced for worst-case scenario. Given the cost and obvious downsides to having the Kompressor and intercooler right on top of the motor, I decided to look into another method. I considered NOS, but I didn't want to deal with filling the bottle up and not always having the power when I want it. All of this led me to the idea of supercharging with the use of a "Procharger-style" supercharger. This project should be started and finished within the next 6 to 9 months, but should not exceed longer than a year. I am creating this post now to generate discussion, questions, and answers to better prepare myself for the project. I have already emailed Eurocharged of Chicago to see if they can do Dyno tuning on the stock ECU and am waiting to hear back from them. If that does not work out, the project either ends or gets much more complicated. The end goal is not to just supercharge the car, but to create a full write-up and step-by-step instructions with pictures/videos so that anyone that owns these cars can do the same with the convenience of having all the information they need in front of them. For this to be possible, I will need to keep as much OEM stuff alone as possible while using/finding things that already exist (brackets, bolt holes, etc) so literally anyone could do this and including any 3D model files to send to machine shops. Some of that may change as I actually start the project and run into issues, but it will be covered in detail with date and time stamps like a journal (this journal already exists and currently holds parts lists, pricing, research, calculations, and questions with Day/Month/Year time stamps).
Performance Goals: 450 to 550whp making 10 to 14psi on E85/flex fuel tune with stock internals. I do NOT advise attempting this until I've done a reliability update.
I am a 20 year old college student, so excuse my lack of knowledge (should it become an issue lol)
Below is the result of this research.
Parts List w/ Cost (USD)These parts are ideal to my build, but are subject to change based on possible new info. Intake tubing, bracket, misc. bolts, and tuning not included. Shipping + Tax not included either.
Torqstorm Supercharger - $2,200.00 (link) Walbro 450LPH - $155.00 (link) <--- NOT COMPATIBLE, USE 2 x Bosch 044 Pumps - $110.00 (link)
M113K OEM Crank Pulley - $527.50 (link)
-8AN E85 Fuel Line (Feed) - $89.89(
)
630cc Injectors - $365.00 (link)
Flex Fuel Sensor - $109.00 (link)
Fuel Pressure Regulator - $84.99 (link)
Torqstorm 52mm BOV w/ 3" x 6" Intake Tube - $285.00 (link)
Mishimoto S-Line Intercooler - $250.95 (link)
Aeromotive 10 micron -8AN Microglass Fuel Filter - $160.65 (link)
M113K OEM Supercharger Belt - $26.99 (link)
"One-step colder" Spark Plugs - $329.00 (Could be cheaper, but read somewhere that M113K plugs have longer threads and cannot simply be used on M113. Please correct me if this is wrong; I hope it is lol) (link) AEM F/IC-8 Piggyback - $599.99 (link) Total: $5,218.85
If you believe anything is missing, please mention it.
Calculations/Explanation
Predicted Max Boost given Pulley Ratio (76mm:150mm) is roughly 14psi. (Not to be taken literally, as there are far too many factors for actual boost. Just gives a good idea of possible boost) (source)
Predicted Max Boost given max RPM (6300), Engine Size, etc, is roughly 18psi to 20psi (YIKES). (source)
Fuel line required for more volume and E85 compatibility.
OEM Crank pulley is used to keep boost down.
OEM Belt is used for availability, compatibility, and low cost.
Fuel filter for E85 compatibility.
Fuel pressure regulator is to handle higher output pressure from fuel pump and adjustability for tuner.
Flex fuel sensor is to allow for E85 and regular pump gas use. E85 and Intercooler are must haves to keep the addition of boost as safe as possible. Methanol can also be used or in place of E85 with race gas.
I am currently running a custom 2.5in full dual exhaust with some ebay "shorty" headers (I do NOT recommend these headers unless you are willing to put a lot into getting them use-able). This exhaust may be a restriction and may require changing (will know more when tuning occurs).
Questions w/ Answers (as updated)
1. Q: If boost is applied to the stock motor, should the Secondary Air Injection system + pump be removed and blocked off? I was uncertain if the positive pressure due to boost would create boost creep through this system.
A: Another forum member has sent a picture with procharger on a clk430 where SAI was left in the car. (source)
Updates:
5/24/2022 - ECU tuning is slightly more complicated, Eurocharged can no longer support. Piggyback seems like the next easiest/viable option to retain everything stock but take control of fuel and spark. I will be going with AEM F/IC-8 (currently doing more research on this and may change.If you see this then I am still not 100% certain). There's a video (youtube.com/watch?v=NCXHqXFdGJo&ab_channel=HippoTuning) that shows a W208 CLK430 with this unit working. I know this makes things more complicated/scarier for a normal person, but I will do my best to simplify the steps to make this work. IF ANYONE HAS ECU DIAGRAMS FOR COIL OUTPUT AND INJECTOR OUTPUT PLEASE SHARE (currently searching and piecing together, will put info here if/when I find something otherwise)
5/26/2022 - Spoke with Eddie at RaceIQ. They seem like very cool and knowledgeable guys there! (Special thanks to Joe for directing me to them!). They said they have the capability to do the tuning (remotely even), just waiting to hear back if we can convince the tuner that it would be okay to do. Their current concern is the high compression running 14 psi because of the rods, but I told them my hopes were to run closer to 10 and ideally not over 10.
6/4/2022 - New plan: Run 5-6 psi if tuner allows. I know the power won't be there like at 10-14psi, but it's a good compromise for my current budget and safety of the motor while still exploring the idea/concept of using a centrifugal supercharger on the car (and creating a bracket that allows anyone to do this).
Last edited by Kaleb Bailey; 06-20-2022 at 11:13 AM.
I'll be following your progress here, mainly to see how you end up making a bracket to mount the head unit. I was considering putting a Procharger on my M113k-swapped W208, but I ended up just getting a Whipple instead. That said, a centrifugal supercharger is still something I may do in the future.
A couple things to consider -
I'm not sure how much boost the intake can handle. It's a two-piece magnesium unit not designed for boost. 14psi seems doable, but it's something to keep in mind.
The bottom end of the NA M113 is not as robust as on a M113k. The rods are weaker, and the block lacks cross bolts on the #1 and #5 main caps. Again, probably not a deal breaker for 14 psi, but something else to consider.
The W208 has an external fuel pump so that Walbro won't work. I'm running a flexfuel setup on mine with a pair of Bosch -044 pumps mounted in a tandem bracket (search Ebay or Amazon for examples). I have -8 feed and -6 return lines.
I'll be following your progress here, mainly to see how you end up making a bracket to mount the head unit. I was considering putting a Procharger on my M113k-swapped W208, but I ended up just getting a Whipple instead. That said, a centrifugal supercharger is still something I may do in the future.
A couple things to consider -
I'm not sure how much boost the intake can handle. It's a two-piece magnesium unit not designed for boost. 14psi seems doable, but it's something to keep in mind.
The bottom end of the NA M113 is not as robust as on a M113k. The rods are weaker, and the block lacks cross bolts on the #1 and #5 main caps. Again, probably not a deal breaker for 14 psi, but something else to consider.
The W208 has an external fuel pump so that Walbro won't work. I'm running a flexfuel setup on mine with a pair of Bosch -044 pumps mounted in a tandem bracket (search Ebay or Amazon for examples). I have -8 feed and -6 return lines.
Good luck!
Wow! Your project sounds amazing. Thanks for the info with the fuel pump! I had physically seen the exterior pump and wondered about it and some research showed both external and internal so I was pretty confused about it.
I was aware of the weaker bottom end, just hoping to limit test the motor and hope it can hold up lol. Had no idea on the intake either. Good stuff!
Unfortunately, Eurocharged of Chicago is no longer capable of dyno tuning W208 CLK, only 2008+ models so I will have to source another location for that. How did you end up getting your tune done? I am located in Michigan so if you or anyone else reading this knows any shops then please recommend. I may have to travel a couple states over and just make a road trip out of it.
Additionally, the bracket for the head unit was my main concern (before hearing the issue with tuning). I will try my best to make it as accessible as possible for everyone though.
I know it's doable as I have seen pictures of a W208 (CLK430 I think) with a centrifugal unit on it. I think it was a Vortec. You should be able to find some pics if you Google it.
Good info! I'll definitely be spending a lot of time looking through them. I have seen the pictures of that CLK430 with the Vortech and that's kind of what made the idea extremely viable to me.
I'm not sure how realistic it is as I haven't started researching it yet, but I think I am going to attempt to run a standalone in parallel with the stock ECU. That would allow me to keep interior electronics, speedo, and stock TCU. I've read that piggybacks can cause issues when running too much power or too large of injectors (not sure how its any different than a standalone aside from maybe capability of the standalone itself).
I guess I should clarify my last comment. The OEM TCU is completely gone, but the OEM ECU is still in the car, I just have all of the engine harnesses removed. So it still controls some functions, just not the engine. The speedo will work this way, but you will lose your tach, ABS, and traction control, plus your check engine light will always be on. It does allow you to use the stock key to start the car, but you have to run it through your aftermarket ECU so it knows when to stop sending the "start" signal (once the engine fires).
I guess I should clarify my last comment. The OEM TCU is completely gone, but the OEM ECU is still in the car, I just have all of the engine harnesses removed. So it still controls some functions, just not the engine. The speedo will work this way, but you will lose your tach, ABS, and traction control, plus your check engine light will always be on. It does allow you to use the stock key to start the car, but you have to run it through your aftermarket ECU so it knows when to stop sending the "start" signal (once the engine fires).
Was there an issue with the ECU communicating to the original TCU that led you to remove the TCU completely? I assume it was just for more control over the transmission considering your specific application. I just came across a video (included in the og post under Updates) which makes use of an AEM F/IC-8 to control fuel and spark while retaining stock TCU, no CEL, etc, on a W208 CLK430. It just taps into the respective OEM ECU ports. It makes sense logically thinking about it right now, but I will always have some skepticism until I see it work for myself. Any thoughts on this?
I actually installed the PCS TCM while I was still running on the OEM ECU. I knew I would need it when I went to the Holley, so I did it first.
You might need to rethink that AEM FIC 8. I looked at that way back in the beginning of my project and I'm pretty sure they don't make it anymore. Even if you got ahold of a used one, I'm not exactly sure what it can do besides retard timing and add fuel. I never looked at it in detail, so I don't really know.
As for tuning the stock ECU, you might see if Tony at RaceIQ could do that. Also, since the N/A engine has a Mass Airflow sensor, you may be able to add boost without modifying the fueling. Someone with more experience than I have would need to weigh-in on that though.
Hmm, that's very intriguing. I will do some research into the MAF theory you have. Are you insinuating that no tuning may be necessary because of the MAF? If the MAF picks up on the additional air and increases fuel, wouldn't the stock ECU programming make accountable changes to timing based on knock (if any)? My initial assumption with the MAF is that the additional air flow will be too much for it to handle (limited voltage output) or exceed the programmed operable ranges and trip a code.
I was unaware that the AEM FIC 8 is no longer being made, so I'll have to find the equivalent that is being made today (the infinity series is definitely out of budget for me lol).
I'll try reaching out to Tony as well. If this works out, things could be much simpler again!
Given your 5-7k budget, why not consider just buying a used M113K engine, and putting it into you car? Options for tuning the proper ECU exist, and then you would have a turnkey, reliable monster of a car. Oh, and BTW, if you are doing your own work, you'll be way under your budget. Just need to shop around.
Given your 5-7k budget, why not consider just buying a used M113K engine, and putting it into you car? Options for tuning the proper ECU exist, and then you would have a turnkey, reliable monster of a car. Oh, and BTW, if you are doing your own work, you'll be way under your budget. Just need to shop around.
I agree with this. Unless you are looking for an open-ended science experiment (nothing wrong with those!), just getting a complete M113k, computer, and engine harness out of a 2004 S55 is the way to go. The oil pan on the S55 will allow you to drop it right in if you remove the front sway bar. If you want to keep the sway bar, you need to fiddle with the oil pump so you can keep the original oil pan.
Even doing this will put you right up against your budget though, once all is said and done.
Given your 5-7k budget, why not consider just buying a used M113K engine, and putting it into you car? Options for tuning the proper ECU exist, and then you would have a turnkey, reliable monster of a car. Oh, and BTW, if you are doing your own work, you'll be way under your budget. Just need to shop around.
I had considered this and was going to for a while. I had a quote from Eurocharged for labor to install (which was a very reasonable price for turn key). There are 3 main things that stopped me from going this route.
1. As Joe said, I love to learn and do new and unique things that not many choose to do. I think I could learn a lot more about my car specifically and cars in general through this project.
2. I don't have the biggest tools for the job (engine hoist, engine stand, storage space, etc).
3. I haven't personally been able to locate a full motor assembly with the necessary parts for under $3k to $4k, but if there is one out there than I will most likely jump on it and have Eurocharged do the swap for me.
I appreciate your input on this and if a good deal does jump at me I will definitely be going your route.
Very curious to see the end result as I have thought about a Kleemann supercharger set-up or Turboing the M113 as well purely out of curiosity and to see how much this platform can handle. We all know the M113K is much more stout and can handle lots more power, however i don't think a lot of people have really tested the durability of the NA M113. Not to mention these W208 AMG's are getting harder and harder to find by the day. (I actually drove out to Ann Arbor 2 years ago to pick up mine and drove it back to Philadelphia) My thread is in here if you're curious
Good luck with this, when I was 20 I bought a full front clip from Hong Kong and had it shipped to Philly for my celica, with a 3sgte engine and did all of the work myself. It was a learning experience and it was an absolute blast.
You're going to run into unexpected problems but if you stay the course it will be an incredibly rewarding feeling once its complete.
Thank you! I do expect a lot of hurdles, but once this tuning hurdle is figured out I believe everything else will be much easier.
My hopes of completion within a year may not be possible depending on the answer of RaceIQ (which I am still waiting to hear back from, but I reached out just yesterday to check in).
As for pictures: I plan to take plenty of pictures and videos along the process (so long as my temperament allows while working on the car lol). Below are some pictures of my car currently. The last is a picture of my attempt at a CAI to increase some airflow/throttle response. After getting the stage 2 tune from Weistec, the car was extremely doggish on the top end (60+ mph). After the intake install, it is night and day difference.
How do you modify your fuel system? The original fuel filter has 3 output line and there are to fuel rail, return line to tank and degassing line to tank. How do you deal with degassing line? Thank you
How do you modify your fuel system? The original fuel filter has 3 output line and there are to fuel rail, return line to tank and degassing line to tank. How do you deal with degassing line? Thank you
I'll be following your progress here, mainly to see how you end up making a bracket to mount the head unit. I was considering putting a Procharger on my M113k-swapped W208, but I ended up just getting a Whipple instead. That said, a centrifugal supercharger is still something I may do in the future.
A couple things to consider -
I'm not sure how much boost the intake can handle. It's a two-piece magnesium unit not designed for boost. 14psi seems doable, but it's something to keep in mind.
The bottom end of the NA M113 is not as robust as on a M113k. The rods are weaker, and the block lacks cross bolts on the #1 and #5 main caps. Again, probably not a deal breaker for 14 psi, but something else to consider.
The W208 has an external fuel pump so that Walbro won't work. I'm running a flexfuel setup on mine with a pair of Bosch -044 pumps mounted in a tandem bracket (search Ebay or Amazon for examples). I have -8 feed and -6 return lines.
Good luck!
Hey man I am in the process of mounting Raceworks surge tank with twin Walbro 450 pumps, PTFE braided lines and other stuff to support E85. My question: IS our W208 CLK tank (not metal), stock rubber filler neck, rubber lines from tank to filter and plastic lever senders (L+R), Is it all E85 safe?
Hey man I am in the process of mounting Raceworks surge tank with twin Walbro 450 pumps, PTFE braided lines and other stuff to support E85. My question: IS our W208 CLK tank (not metal), stock rubber filler neck, rubber lines from tank to filter and plastic lever senders (L+R), Is it all E85 safe?
The best answer I can give you is "I think so". I asked the same question and got that answer so I went ahead with the project. I didn't have any problems with any of the rubber bits disintigrating last year, but I only ran E85 for one race season so far.
[
Any questions? Ask away.
I am AMG master technician I did all to work myself. 77mm pulley DTK stage 2 Tune ECU done by Mercedes Swap out of California. Coded AMG Ecu to CLK. CLS staggered rims Color Blue Matte Satin. Full 4" inch Titanium Exhaust wirh headers Carbon fiber duckbill wing.
QUOTE=Kaleb Bailey;8568500]Wow! Your project sounds amazing. Thanks for the info with the fuel pump! I had physically seen the exterior pump and wondered about it and some research showed both external and internal so I was pretty confused about it.
I was aware of the weaker bottom end, just hoping to limit test the motor and hope it can hold up lol. Had no idea on the intake either. Good stuff!
Unfortunately, Eurocharged of Chicago is no longer capable of dyno tuning W208 CLK, only 2008+ models so I will have to source another location for that. How did you end up getting your tune done? I am located in Michigan so if you or anyone else reading this knows any shops then please recommend. I may have to travel a couple states over and just make a road trip out of it.
Additionally, the bracket for the head unit was my main concern (before hearing the issue with tuning). I will try my best to make it as accessible as possible for everyone though.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, that's very intriguing. I will do some research into the MAF theory you have. Are you insinuating that no tuning may be necessary because of the MAF? If the MAF picks up on the additional air and increases fuel, wouldn't the stock ECU programming make accountable changes to timing based on knock (if any)? My initial assumption with the MAF is that the additional air flow will be too much for it to handle (limited voltage output) or exceed the programmed operable ranges and trip a code.
I was unaware that the AEM FIC 8 is no longer being made, so I'll have to find the equivalent that is being made today (the infinity series is definitely out of budget for me lol).
I'll try reaching out to Tony as well. If this works out, things could be much simpler again!
with the AEMFIC you control everything except the timing advance let the ME2.0 do its work for the MAF lower your voltage to 3.85 with the fic8 it is possible and you increase your boost I will take the photos of the adjustment fic that I have and you will see that you will have more limit I managed to lower an AFR of 7 to see how far it could go let the ME2.0 manage ESP , dashboard EZL I have no faulty no tdc NO ERROR !! the only problem is the 722.6 I deleted the tcu and put an OFGEAR the power passes
Last edited by alexis lehavre; 04-28-2024 at 03:24 AM.
maf M113k ME2.0 with the AEMFIC you control everything except the timing advance let
Originally Posted by Kaleb Bailey
Hmm, that's very intriguing. I will do some research into the MAF theory you have. Are you insinuating that no tuning may be necessary because of the MAF? If the MAF picks up on the additional air and increases fuel, wouldn't the stock ECU programming make accountable changes to timing based on knock (if any)? My initial assumption with the MAF is that the additional air flow will be too much for it to handle (limited voltage output) or exceed the programmed operable ranges and trip a code.
I was unaware that the AEM FIC 8 is no longer being made, so I'll have to find the equivalent that is being made today (the infinity series is definitely out of budget for me lol).
I'll try reaching out to Tony as well. If this works out, things could be much simpler again!
05-22-2022, 07:33 PM
