AmgAutobahnAuto

Story from Car and Driver

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...series_feature




Cant wait until this baby gets here next week

I LOVE AMG...........

LZH

No surprise there, the BS has no equal. Funny they mention the new M3 - pa-lease....some idiot in one just tried to take me off the line today at a stop light - By the look on his face at the next light he was disappointed.

MR TORQUE

Hey AmgAutobahnAuto, some friends from the M3 forums told me about your post Aren't you going to defend yourself?

LZH

Defend himself from what ? The fact that BMW's suck and neither the new M3 nor the M5 can hold a candle to the Black Series ? Sure, I expect the BS to be faster than the M3 as it is a much more expensive car. But they are pretty similar platforms and one would imagine that the M3 could hold it's own....but it can't.

AmgAutobahnAuto

Why waste my time. I tried to be nice and I have owned a e46 M3 before. For some reason BMW drivers think there the best. I have no time on my hand to argue with kids. I rather poop on them on the road

JamE55

Simply put....CLK Black Series is the best of both worlds! Looks, power and exclusivity!

jrcart

Can someone go post a link to that story on BimmerForum.com in the new M3 section? I can't figure out how to do it. I was over there theu other day and some idiot called the black series and over priced, under powered couch....yep, it's true, says he would run circles around me! When I went to defend the BS and posted lots of factual info the moderator deleted all my posts I think his name is MARYAKAN or some garbage. I even told them I am not a BMW hater, I own 2 of them for cripes sake! Un-educated sorry little people the majority of the M3 owners are. I am trying to finagle my way onto a road course with a local BMW club...maybe I can make believers out of them then.

BMW missed this time around, the new S4 is going to outdo it, the Black Series already out does it, and the Lexus IS-F is right there nipping at it's heels. I'm sure M-B/AMG is going to break out a near 500hp next generation CLK very soon as well. BMW sat on top of the mountain for a long time, but I think there days at the top are numbered.

thebenzbar

+1

I'm also a BMW owner (an e36 M3) but I'd still take a CLK63 BS over an e92 M3 or an e60 M5 (and even over the e63 M6) anyday of the week! In fact IMO I'd get a C63 first over the new M3. The M deserves respect, but TO ME the new AMG BS line is more desirable and takes the icing on the cake... performance-wise, aesthetics/looks, and tops the wow factor between the two!

DFW01E55

There was a CLK Black sold by Dick Dyer MB this week. The buyer traded a 2007 911 Turbo on it.

Wonder if the M3 boys will understand that.

theConqueror

In Top Gear, e92 M3 beat C63 AMG around the track, despite all the hp and torque difference. Then Benz came up with the 500hp Black CLK63 AMG, and beat the e92 M3 around the track that only has 414hp... I don't know what is interesting about that, as it is expected.

But don't we have to wait for the 470hp e92 M3 CSL for an apple-to-apple comparison?

thebenzbar

Yep, but you forgot to mention that the CLK63 BS can also beat the V10 M5/M6. Besides even if they were "equal", I would argue that many would still crave for the BS more than the M. In any case, IF I could afford such new high-performance exotics like these then I'd be happy with any of them in my garage... but I'd put cash down on the BS first.

theConqueror

I agree they're all nice cars to each their own, but without seeing the numbers against the M5, there is no reason for me to believe BS beating down the M5 over the following statement. Apparently, it was C&R's drivers+BS against the regular track people with M5s.. I wonder what the outcome would be if it was just the opposite

Carl Lassiter

On the track, yes. On the highway, no. Regardless, the M5 and the BS are not a straight up comparison. One is a 4-door sedan that handles very well, the other is a two seater focused on track performance that handles exceptionally well.

It is unfortunate that there will always be a knucklehead minority who bring down any brand. From what I've heard, certain ridiculous members on the M3 boards highlight the fact that some will claim a particular car's superiority to the death despite strong evidence to the contrary. Unless they own a huge amount of shares in a particular auto company I cannot think of why they would do this.

Jim Brady

This is a CLK63 Black series board, did you not see that when you posted.
The m3 is not in the same league as you mentioned. So what is the point of your post.

thebenzbar

...which is why I (as well as many out there) would be more than glad to own either one. The BS and the M5 may not be a straight apples to apples comparison (the M6 is more of a closer comp to the BS), but they're still high-performance German cars nevertheless. And no one would argue with a two-car garage that was equipped with a virgin CLK63 BS next to a new e60 M5 ...now if I could only hit the lottery jackpot!

Clk&Slk

New track record on Nurburgring go to the BMW M3 "CSL" with the times of 7.22.04 (that's faster then the new Corvette "ZR1" times of 7.26.04 and 2009 Nissan GT-R times of 7.29.03). I think the Clk 63 "BS" best time was in the 7.3x.xx.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL7T9...8_archive.html

Carl Lassiter

Well said. The only part I disagree with is that I feel BMW could've made the M6, given that it is a 2+2 barely more practical than the BS, a more comfort-compromised car and really aimed for a performance/track angle rather than the sporting GT angle they successfully accomplished.

jrcart

The key word in your phrase above is WAIT...when is this CSL hitting the street? I hear spring 2010, and most likely will not be coming to North America (again). In less time than that M-B will have the next generation CLK?? AMG prowling the streets. Like I said before, BMW brough a knife to a gun fight this time.

jrcart

I think I qualify as " regular track people" want to line up in a new M3 against me in a BS? I'll even use a stock BS to prove my point.

ANY new M3 owners up for a challenge? We can settle this right now.

MARTYMAR

I think he wants to see a M5 vs a BS. In a straight line do you think the BS can out run a M5? I think it would be a very close race. I'd love to see that race

jrcart

When my car was stock I lined up against a stock M5 of a good friend, from a standing start the edge went to whichever car got traction first, I beat the M5 3 out of 5 times in a 1/4 mile race from a standing start, all 5 races were very close, within 2 car lengths every time. In roll-ons the Black Series edged the M5 every time but again the races were very close. We did 60-100, 60-120 and 85-140. I thought the M5 would reel me in at the higher speeds but he did not, the Black Series actually puls the M5 ever so slightly as the MPH grows.

We did it again after my mods and it is not even close, even with me spinning my tires from a standing start he can't hang with me, the roll-on's got even worse for the M5, From 85-140 I open up well over 10 car lengths and before it was about 2 lengths at best. The M5 is a serious machine, I owned one of the first one E60 M5's a few years ago. There is NOTHING I can say to knock it and I hear the next gen M5 is going to be making close to 600hp and 350 pounds lighter than this version.

And to answer the road course question, yes I have been on a road course with the same car, I was turing lap times nearly 2.5 seconds faster than the M5, but I assume that was due to varying driver skill.

My offer stands for any M5 owners that want to try to beat me in a stock BS as well.

MARTYMAR

BMW M5 (2008)

With minor changes to its exterior, the 2008 BMW M5 Sports Sedan is still a classic 4-door 4-passenger sports sedan that satisfies all the requirements to be hailed as a super car. The M5 deserves such superlatives due to what is under its sculpted hood: a totally new 5-liter 10-cylinder engine that lives up to its displacement specs by pumping out 500 horsepower and accelerating from zero to 60 mph in 4.4 seconds. To feel the full extent of the V10's wrath, the optional fully manual transmission can put the M5's 383 ft-lb of torque at your beck and call. The single trim level has enough standard equipment and options to satisfy the ardent road raptor as well as the incurable technophile.

Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG Black Series (2008)

The Limited Edition CLK63 AMG Black Series coupe offers Mercedes branded race car performance and features a manually adjustable suspension, revised steering geometry, massive composite brakes with six-piston front rotors, road gripping Pirelli tire and heavily bolstered sport seats. Although the exterior has a few aggressive trim specific accents that differentiate it from its model mates, the robust powertrain is what really draws attention. The CLK63 AMG Black Series is the fastest in the CLK-Class with an enhanced 6.2 liter V8 engine that puts out 500 horsepower earning it a top speed of 186 mph and a lightning fast 0 to 60 mph time of 4.4 seconds. With a MSRP of around $135,000, this gorgeous collectable doesn't come cheap- in fact it is about 50% more than the CLK63 AMG Convertible.

Whew These two cars are some serious competitors!

theConqueror

If you actually read the article, it is the author who puts M3 on par with the CLK. And in my post, I just said M3 beat the C63 AMG, not the CLK63 BS. But a better fit for the CLK63 AMG BS would be e92 M3 CLS imo...

Oh, and you can't even compare a sport sedan with a sports coupe anyways, which makes the CLK63 AMG BS comparison with M5 impossible...

theConqueror

Well, unfortunately cars that could be better compared have different time frames of arrival, so the comparisons do not mean much in that sense. Similarly M5 is not a new car, so comparing it now with the new CLK63 AMG BS does not make sense from that point of view as well.

theConqueror

Well there is no question that a 500 hp BS will (should) eat the new M3 alive on track and straight line (as the article says). I don't think this is what we are discussing here. Similarly, a BS with a pro-driver and and a "regular" M5 track guy, the edge will still be on the BS. But swap the drivers, then the result would be swapped as well.