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Im a new member from Finland. I have a CLS 550 shooting brake 4-matic 2014 (facelift). Its custom tuned here in Finland (www.motorbit.fi) my car is in that website. It did 520hv and 870nm torque. Now I have installed 3" Red Star exhaust downpipes with HJS race cats and on friday I will install w212 E63 AMG 70mm cat backs and after that a retune in July. My tuner will try to work that TCU also what seems to be on top now on here also. car is lowered with Merc tool "star" and now runs nice low. Also I have the Tv free on driving and some upgrades on stereo system.
Yes that for the situation now.
I have bought M157 turbos on eBay and going to install them later this year or next spring, and get the tune also. In winter time I drive my E85 Tuned Saab. I have some questions and I hope that somebody can please help me out.
1. Does anyone know for sure, that will I need to install the AMG fuel pumps or are the original pumps good for that?I have read that Gardievski did swap them, but is it necessary?
2. Do I need to get the fuel tank off if I need to change the AMG pumps? Was it easy or hard job?
3. Are the turbos really "bolt on" with water and oil lines etc. or is it going to be hard job?
4. How many hours that take to get motor out and install the turbos?
5. Any other things to figure out before the M157 turbo swap?
Sorry, my English isn't the best.
Best Regards
Pekka
Last edited by PekkaH; 08-22-2020 at 01:01 AM.
Reason: info
There haven't been many on the group that have changed to the 157 turbos, so that's why you're not getting any responses. Maybe someone who has done this will chime in. Good Luck, Marv
Hey so I've read a few reports on this all of which are conflicting. I think it depends how your car was set up from factory if there are coolant lines that are already in place, vs new ones to be routed.
Hey so I've read a few reports on this all of which are conflicting. I think it depends how your car was set up from factory if there are coolant lines that are already in place, vs new ones to be routed.
Hi!
I think I have coolant lines all ready. Don't know for sure. My car is year model 2015. I have separate ic coolant also. I going to install the 157 turbos next spring time. Estimate may 2021. Merc is going to stay in garage late autumn and wintertime. Soo much road salt and **** all over then here in Finland..
By the way I did retune on dyno my car after 3" Red star downpipes and W212 AMG cat back install. It was very very hot in the dyno garage (32c) and car pull timing down. With conservative tune it still did 550hv on 5800rpm and 850nm torque. Also I did found out after dyno that there was a lot air bubbles in the IC cooling system and low on IC coolant also.
In this autumn in going to install M157 fuel pumps and maybe retune car and my tuner can maybe adjust TCU. After M157 turbos its very important to get TCU tune to get that new power on road.
Im going to install UPD intake lifters also and if tuner and I have the time it will be dynoed with and without UPD lifters. Original paper filters on. There are some results that supports that UPD CAIK works and some people are saying they are not. Lets see then what's going to happen.
I have forced the IC pump now run all the time now and install switch on it.
Im going to put the heat wrap on my air intake boxes down side and fill the hole what is there also.
I think I have coolant lines all ready. Don't know for sure. My car is year model 2015. I have separate ic coolant also. I going to install the 157 turbos next spring time. Estimate may 2021. Merc is going to stay in garage late autumn and wintertime. Soo much road salt and **** all over then here in Finland..
By the way I did retune on dyno my car after 3" Red star downpipes and W212 AMG cat back install. It was very very hot in the dyno garage (32c) and car pull timing down. With conservative tune it still did 550hv on 5800rpm and 850nm torque. Also I did found out after dyno that there was a lot air bubbles in the IC cooling system and low on IC coolant also.
In this autumn in going to install M157 fuel pumps and maybe retune car and my tuner can maybe adjust TCU. After M157 turbos its very important to get TCU tune to get that new power on road.
Im going to install UPD intake lifters also and if tuner and I have the time it will be dynoed with and without UPD lifters. Original paper filters on. There are some results that supports that UPD CAIK works and some people are saying they are not. Lets see then what's going to happen.
I have forced the IC pump now run all the time now and install switch on it.
Im going to put the heat wrap on my air intake boxes down side and fill the hole what is there also.
Awesome!
Can you speak to this part a bit: I have forced the IC pump now run all the time now and install switch on it. (did u just feed it switched 12v?)
I've a been thinking about wrapping the air intake tubes and charge tubes, but I'm thinking BOV and really dig into the methanol next. (I may fabricate the BOVs not sure yet.) I think I need to figure out how to wire it and run it so when methanol cuts it doesn't boost as high, I haven't read anything about installs like that on MB.
Did you do turbo back pipes yet (between turbo to 1st cats)? I've heard there is another 30-40hp there.
Can you speak to this part a bit: I have forced the IC pump now run all the time now and install switch on it. (did u just feed it switched 12v?)
I've a been thinking about wrapping the air intake tubes and charge tubes, but I'm thinking BOV and really dig into the methanol next. (I may fabricate the BOVs not sure yet.) I think I need to figure out how to wire it and run it so when methanol cuts it doesn't boost as high, I haven't read anything about installs like that on MB.
Did you do turbo back pipes yet (between turbo to 1st cats)? I've heard there is another 30-40hp there.
No I haven't done the turbo back pipes, yes they will def help the power, reduce back pressure, help flow, reduces EGT I think and yes would get more power like you mentioned. Problem is that I can see only Weistec is selling those and because I have red star downpipes I need to think get some kind of adapters to install those together and because I have 4 matic I will need some custom motor mounts also with those turbo pipes. Really expensive and hard to do. If there is easier solution I would go for it. If you have any link other than Weistec let me know.
I think everyone who have the split IC cooling system should look at it. I found out that my system there were a lot off air bubbles and very low on cooling fluid there. Those things rise IAT for sure and maybe can pull timing down on hot days and hard driving.
Im going to get a better heat exchanger soon also.
If you want more info on that switch etc. PM me. I have some videos and pictures with a can share on whatsup if u need.
No I haven't done the turbo back pipes, yes they will def help the power, reduce back pressure, help flow, reduces EGT I think and yes would get more power like you mentioned. Problem is that I can see only Weistec is selling those and because I have red star downpipes I need to think get some kind of adapters to install those together and because I have 4 matic I will need some custom motor mounts also with those turbo pipes. Really expensive and hard to do. If there is easier solution I would go for it. If you have any link other than Weistec let me know.
I think everyone who have the split IC cooling system should look at it. I found out that my system there were a lot off air bubbles and very low on cooling fluid there. Those things rise IAT for sure and maybe can pull timing down on hot days and hard driving.
Im going to get a better heat exchanger soon also.
If you want more info on that switch etc. PM me. I have some videos and pictures with a can share on whatsup if u need.
I read that thread and it is interesting how he was able to lower his AITs that much with just wiring. Now, where can I find if my 2012 550 has a split IC system? I only know of the coolant reservoir visibly sitting to the left side. I am not that educated on the cooling system and the pumps. Please let me know if the 2012 models has the split system or not?
I read that thread and it is interesting how he was able to lower his AITs that much with just wiring. Now, where can I find if my 2012 550 has a split IC system? I only know of the coolant reservoir visibly sitting to the left side. I am not that educated on the cooling system and the pumps. Please let me know if the 2012 models has the split system or not?
No I haven't done the turbo back pipes, yes they will def help the power, reduce back pressure, help flow, reduces EGT I think and yes would get more power like you mentioned. Problem is that I can see only Weistec is selling those and because I have red star downpipes I need to think get some kind of adapters to install those together and because I have 4 matic I will need some custom motor mounts also with those turbo pipes. Really expensive and hard to do. If there is easier solution I would go for it. If you have any link other than Weistec let me know.
I think everyone who have the split IC cooling system should look at it. I found out that my system there were a lot off air bubbles and very low on cooling fluid there. Those things rise IAT for sure and maybe can pull timing down on hot days and hard driving.
If you want more info on that switch etc. PM me. I have some videos and pictures with a can share on whatsup if u need.
I think I want to upgrade the heat exchanger too. IIRC the midpipe actually has like a connector. so I think the turbo back all go into the connector which bolts up then it has the cats and goes back to the midpipes but I might be wrong.
I'd definitely like to keep in touch about the heat exchanger. I've been thinking about that too. I've seen killer chiller and just bigger radiators. VRP has a bigger one I believe for like $349 and the AMG type pump for another $400 ish.
How do I tell the ECU to cut boost -- IC Pump relay signal possible or other?
So I've been thinking about how to ensure that boost would be cut a lot if methanol runs out. So we could safely tune these cars for methanol boost. I think we should be able to get a lot of horsepower tbh, but the issue is that it would be dangerous if the engine boosts to high levels with no methanol.
If we remove the IC pump resistance will it throw a code and force a lower performance?
K man IDK if you can help with this but how would we tell the ecu to stop boosting highly (when the methanol sensor out trips).
Last edited by cls5504matic; 09-15-2020 at 01:27 PM.
"If we remove the IC pump resistance will it throw a code and force a lower performance? "
I think a few people on w212 AMG forum have done this with no codes and nice results, me also. But I have no dataloging so I don't know how much my IATs have gone down with this mod. I think that link what I send was quite nice and results were there. Correct me if I am giving wrong info about this.
"If we remove the IC pump resistance will it throw a code and force a lower performance? "
I think a few people on w212 AMG forum have done this with no codes and nice results, me also. But I have no dataloging so I don't know how much my IATs have gone down with this mod. I think that link what I send was quite nice and results were there. Correct me if I am giving wrong info about this.
Cool. Thanks sir! I read from OE and Weistec on here you can also have this written in your ECU tune.
But I kind of want to throw codes and lower performance, on say a signal trigger of low methanol, to avoid blowing up the engine. If we figure out the wiring right I think we should be able make a lot of power from methanol safely. But I wonder now that I wrote that...
Can I get that written into a custom ECU tune, like on a signal we drop the boost? That would make this easy.
I think 2012 models doesn't have it. it comes on facelift models 2014. But what can I say, look under the cover.
I have done this mod and put that switch there also.
Mine doesn't have anything under the engine cover. So I guess mine doesn't have it. Do you think it's doable with just one coolant reservoir?
Originally Posted by cls5504matic
So I've been thinking about how to ensure that boost would be cut a lot if methanol runs out. So we could safely tune these cars for methanol boost. I think we should be able to get a lot of horsepower tbh, but the issue is that it would be dangerous if the engine boosts to high levels with no methanol.
If we remove the IC pump resistance will it throw a code and force a lower performance?
Kong man IDK if you can help with this but how would we tell the ecu to stop boosting highly (when the methanol sensor out trips).
Yes, I talked to Jerry at EC and he said they can tune it for Meth and increase boost and such, but there is no safety features if you run out of Meth and is still running a high boost/RPM. I guess you can upload the ECU tune without Meth and upload the Meth tune once you fill up your meth tank. He also said that the difference of tune of Meth vs a regular tune + Meth kit (for just cooling effects) will have roughly 20hp difference, give or take, adding "might not be worth the risk."
If you can be on top of your meth tank and the fluid in it, sure, go for the tune. But if you forget about it and push it hard, you can have serious issues on your hands. I am looking into Meth kit as well, but now, maybe just for the cooling effects without the tune. Just my take on it.
To cls5504matic: Yes the IC coolant pump can be written to ECU to start lower temperatures and my tuner did it to me, but It can't be written that low that I wanted so I did that forced IC pump like we have talked about and guys in E63 forums have done and their cars are flying like bat out off hell with no codes.
Ahhh, I see. So the split system is a must for that mod. Interesting. Thanks for that info. I will keep the tabs on this thread and info if I want to do it. I thought I won't have to buy anything lol oh well.
Also, since you already have the turbos, what other parts are necessary for the installation? And are those turbos from factory M157 or aftermarket turbos?
Thanks for letting me know about the force IC pump mod. Awesome! Can totally feel it (and perhaps you can hear it a bit while running after cold start but before being at temperature). Here is a little video on it:
Ahhh, I see. So the split system is a must for that mod. Interesting. Thanks for that info. I will keep the tabs on this thread and info if I want to do it. I thought I won't have to buy anything lol oh well.
Also, since you already have the turbos, what other parts are necessary for the installation? And are those turbos from factory M157 or aftermarket turbos?
I did bought factory M157 turbos from eBay. I think the new gaskets, seal, etc. will be all what it takes. These M157 turbos would be direct bolt to M278 engine.. But let see what will happen and how hard it will be in may 2021. M157 fuel pumps also, I have bought them in bay. Engine must be drop down.
[QUOTE=Roop94;8157791]Ahhh, I see. So the split system is a must for that mod. Interesting. Thanks for that info. I will keep the tabs on this thread and info if I want to do it. I thought I won't have to buy anything lol oh well.
In this topic last page is correct info about the heat exchanger etc. that I wasn't aware off. So there are not extra IC heat exchanger inside the bumper for even at non S models at all. Including all M157 and offcourse M278. It would need to get new hoses etc. to get one there. https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...k-boost-2.html
I have renntech tune and on S i believe the pump stays on or maybe turns on sooner
Never see over 100F
once it hits 96F the pump turns on to full send lol...then the IATs immediately drop to 55-65F
with this aux rad the recovery is insanely fast
But then again i live in alaska and it does get really cold in the winter...but i dont drive this car in the winter....test was done around may...it was 68F outside
I have renntech tune and on S i believe the pump stays on or maybe turns on sooner
Never see over 100F
once it hits 96F the pump turns on to full send lol...then the IATs immediately drop to 55-65F
with this aux rad the recovery is insanely fast
But then again i live in alaska and it does get really cold in the winter...but i dont drive this car in the winter....test was done around may...it was 68F outside
HI mjec!
So your car have that heat exchanger there from stock? From the knowledge that W212 guys gave on their forum ( linked that on my last post) this heat exchanger on picture should not exist there att all on our platform or this heat exchangers job is to cool motor temps, not IC temps? Confusing..
So your car have that heat exchanger there from stock? From the knowledge that W212 guys gave on their forum ( linked that on my last post) this heat exchanger on picture should not exist there att all on our platform or this heat exchangers job is to cool motor temps, not IC temps? Confusing..
What do you think?
I don't think it is an exact formula with years. I think maybe there is something on the build sheet or card or whatever that denotes uprated engine performance or cooling or something like that.
I don't think it is an exact formula with years. I think maybe there is something on the build sheet or card or whatever that denotes uprated engine performance or cooling or something like that.
Yes I think also that has to be that way.
How can we figure out is that Mjec cars heat exchanger job to cool the engine or IC temps? In what circuit is it connect with? Thats the big question.
By the way on Wednesday the M157 fuel pumps are going in and maybe W212 AMG rear brake calibers and rotors also.
On friday im going to take the front wheel and inner fender off and see do I have OEM heat exchanger there or not at all!
Last edited by PekkaH; 09-21-2020 at 11:37 AM.
Reason: update
Heres my setup on my "14 550...a little project i did last winter...sl550 and s550's have this infront of passenger side fender..so i said hmmmm....theyre all m278 powered so it should work on mine too..i searched for a 14+ s550 and found one at a salvage in CA...they took it all apart for me...i told them..every hose that connects to and from the aux rad i need...they sent me pics and it looked like the aux rad connects to the main cooling system...there have seem to be a valve of some type...luckily amg master tech IAN on ig happend to be tearing apart an s550 engine and had asked him to please send me vids of where aux rad connects to etc...indeed there is a valve that im guessing opens and closes idk when but its connected to the main cooling system...Anyways i canceled the s550 aux rad from the salvage yard...the rad is the same same but the plastic housing and brackets were different...i needed an aux rad setup from a cls63 or e63...i went on ebay and saw one saying it was from a cls550? Uhhh never seen a cls550 with aux rad...the part number had 218 on the plastic "housing"...comparing it to the e63 it looked exactly the same...so i bought it...
on e63 non S it only has aux rad on the passenger side(used for added external cooling of the intercooler) main heat exchanger is in between the main rad and ac...
e63s has aux rad on both sides...pass side=intercooler cooling also
driver side= i believe is for extra engine oil cooling or trans...i forgot
Btw You can also just get the the heat exchanger from weistec and use that mount it behind ur grill...will work even with distronic..of course its not a direct bolt on but ive measured it etc...i just didnt wanna go that route because it doesnt meet my specs..lol i wanted oem ish looking...
Heres my setup on my "14 550...a little project i did last winter...sl550 and s550's have this infront of passenger side fender..so i said hmmmm....theyre all m278 powered so it should work on mine too..i searched for a 14+ s550 and found one at a salvage in CA...they took it all apart for me...i told them..every hose that connects to and from the aux rad i need...they sent me pics and it looked like the aux rad connects to the main cooling system...there have seem to be a valve of some type...luckily amg master tech IAN on ig happend to be tearing apart an s550 engine and had asked him to please send me vids of where aux rad connects to etc...indeed there is a valve that im guessing opens and closes idk when but its connected to the main cooling system...Anyways i canceled the s550 aux rad from the salvage yard...the rad is the same same but the plastic housing and brackets were different...i needed an aux rad setup from a cls63 or e63...i went on ebay and saw one saying it was from a cls550? Uhhh never seen a cls550 with aux rad...the part number had 218 on the plastic "housing"...comparing it to the e63 it looked exactly the same...so i bought it...
on e63 non S it only has aux rad on the passenger side(used for added external cooling of the intercooler) main heat exchanger is in between the main rad and ac...
e63s has aux rad on both sides...pass side=intercooler cooling also
driver side= i believe is for extra engine oil cooling or trans...i forgot
Btw You can also just get the the heat exchanger from weistec and use that mount it behind ur grill...will work even with distronic..of course its not a direct bolt on but ive measured it etc...i just didnt wanna go that route because it doesnt meet my specs..lol i wanted oem ish looking...
Thanks for writing this info mjec! I think it would be helpful to us who has the M278 engines. So some M278 models do have that heat exchanger stock on passenger side. Can anybody confirm that job is cooling the IC temps?
I think the AMG S models drivers side HE is for cooling engine temps, not oil. Can anyone confirm this? Because after that knowledge we can share the right answers for building and tuning after us.
Today I have found out that in my car there is on the passenger side no heat exchanger. That is because I have the auxiliary heater/webasto components just there. So I think I need to pass this HE Upgrading now. But I think now everyone who have the auxiliary heater can no know that their cars don't have that extra heat exchanger. That was the lesson for me today.
Another thing I can confirm is that the AMG W212 or cls63 AMG rear brake calibers and all the stuff there, lines, handbrake etc. is direct bolt on. Now I have the AMG rear brakes.
And the worst thing today was the M157 fuel pump install. The drivers side pump suppose to be direct bolt on and we did like that. Passenger side pump needed a brown wire cut in two and after that is should run good. We did that also. Results were poor. Car did idle like it should, and get revs in place but when I did put push more throttle accelerating in didn't run good att all, it was jerking and Check engine light hit on. At this time I don't know what went wrong there. Maybe the pumps wasn't good or the wiring mod what I did read on this forum was not right. Damn.
No I have PM:d the old guys who have done this mod, like cocobeex and gardievski if the still hang here on forums someday. And PM also nota_amg if he have done this mod and want to help me out with this problems I have now.
If anyone have a knowledge to this M157 fuel pump install please chim in! But if I don't sort this problem out, I can't go the M157 turbo installing. That is going to be very frustrating.
06-24-2020, 05:13 PM
car is lowered with Merc tool "star" and now runs nice low. Also I have the Tv free on driving and some upgrades on stereo system.
