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If you are looking to eke out more performance relatively cheaply, see if you can lower IAT by using larger heat exchangers and coolant pump for the low-temp circuit. Much better ROI by cooling down that boosted air even by a few degrees. Ethanol blends is another path. There is a thread by brutus_tx about the ROI of different mods for the W212 platform.
Exactly what he says. For turbo engines the "bang for the buck factor" is always much greater on the post turbo side.
Second on brutus thread as well.
black boost vs stock with k&n filter oil removed for better flow. I went from 10.6 to 10.5 with just this intake. That’s massive imo
Am I reading your Dragy results right? Forget about the ET since that can be affected by tire, road conditions, launch, etc. Did your mph go up by ~2 in the 1/4 in higher DA?
Am I reading your Dragy results right? Forget about the ET since that can be affected by tire, road conditions, launch, etc. Did your mph go up by ~2 in the 1/4 in higher DA?
they are both 1.69 60 foot on the same exact road where I do all my logging for better accuracy. I have never went under 10.66 before the intake. Countless runs. And yes my mph definitely increased . I can’t say everyone will get same results. I’m simply showing these intakes work and for the price they are perfect IMO. Using an aggressive tune with stock boxes maxed out. That why my gain was dramatic. My turbos were starving for more air up top and wastegate was maxed
they are both 1.69 60 foot on the same exact road where I do all my logging for better accuracy. I have never went under 10.66 before the intake. Countless runs. And yes my mph definitely increased . I can’t say everyone will get same results. I’m simply showing these intakes work and for the price they are perfect IMO. Using an aggressive tune with stock boxes maxed out. That why my gain was dramatic. My turbos were starving for more air up top and wastegate was maxed
What kind of boost do you typically see in 4th gear from 5K til redline on your race gas tune?
Still showing as sold out. Will they make more stock and update or is it a kind of email them and they will get going on it type of thing?
Reach out to thomas@Blackboost he responds fairly well and I know their in the midst of a national Holiday. I faced the same dilemma with the Filters being back ordered they have arrived and he is fulfilling the pending orders. Thx
If you are looking to eke out more performance relatively cheaply, see if you can lower IAT by using larger heat exchangers and coolant pump for the low-temp circuit. Much better ROI by cooling down that boosted air even by a few degrees. Ethanol blends is another path. There is a thread by brutus_tx about the ROI of different mods for the W212 platform.
Do you have a recommendation on what heat exchanger and coolant pump to go with??
Do you have a recommendation on what heat exchanger and coolant pump to go with??
the cooling is 2100 and up if you don’t buy the whole set up the gains are small. The auxiliary rad on the s has small gains unless you go with the center as well. After labor to remove the front end your spending about 3k for the whole kit and install maybe more. Ams has the best option IMO.
K&n drop in Blackboost intake. I must add my tune is aggressive and my wastegate was maxed out so my gains may be more then the next. But gains you will see regardless
I hate quoting large pics, but this is special. You gained 2MPH on a ~4500lbs pig in the 10s with just an intake swap??? That is pretty F'ing impressive!!!
I made 18rwhp and 26rwtq with the UPD intake on a back to back dyno session
Do you have a recommendation on what heat exchanger and coolant pump to go with??
Yes, I researched both fairly well. My recommendation is to consider larger efficiency heat exchangers in the bumper air dams. PLM (Private Label Manufacturing) aux heat exchanger, p/n PLM-M45-HEAT-EXCHANGER-M157 for $346.50/ea group buy ($500/ea sale; $700/ea regular from AMS). It looks exactly like AMS Alpha. Need 1 for non-S/pre-facelift; need 2 for S-models. The non-S models benefit the most from the relative efficiency increase. I agree that the main (center) HE upgrade can yield even better IAT. Regarding the water pump, the optimal replacement pump is Pierburg CWA100 p/n 7.06754.05.0 around $250. It is all about pressure vs. flow, and this model delivers the best pressure in class. You may also want to consider a dedicated pump controller such as Tecomotive tinyCWA for $125. Mine was ordered with the pre-crimped connector, p/n T.00101.2.0.2. One can source both the controller + wiring harness + CWA100-2 pump from Tecomotive, competitively priced, but I bought the pump separately.
This sounds like a reasonably priced solution to improve IAT. The next level is a more labor-intensive and 2x-3x cost in the main (center) heat exchanger like the AMS Alpha. IAT will improve power output no matter any other mods or stock. Depending on where your vehicle is with performance mods, there may be a better ROI elsewhere.
On the non s the auxiliary heat exchanger is for engine coolant only , doesn’t tie into the intercooler. The only heat exchanger option for non s is the main center rad only.
They appear as questionable ROI to me. The volume is large, but the M157 is a charged engine, and so the volume is less impactful than the path/filter restriction. UPD and VRP spacers + hi-flow filters likely solve that problem equally well. Also, the BlackBoost solution depends on the hood as a top lid coming in contact with the rubber seal. This may suggest to strip the hood liner to expose smooth metal surface for good contact. Lastly and subjectively, they do not really look integrated, but rather DIY for a cool $1,200 to boot. My 2 cents.
I personally decided to use VRP spacers + K&N hi-flow filters primarily due to cost and OEM look. I did install 6 standoffs to make flush with the engine covers.
Best of luck.
Brabus 850 uses the same type of seal and boxes without the tubes. It uses like a second engine cover that scoops the air to it, very similar engines etc:
Yes, I researched both fairly well. My recommendation is to consider larger efficiency heat exchangers in the bumper air dams. PLM (Private Label Manufacturing) aux heat exchanger, p/n PLM-M45-HEAT-EXCHANGER-M157 for $346.50/ea group buy ($500/ea sale; $700/ea regular from AMS). It looks exactly like AMS Alpha. Need 1 for non-S/pre-facelift; need 2 for S-models. The non-S models benefit the most from the relative efficiency increase. I agree that the main (center) HE upgrade can yield even better IAT. Regarding the water pump, the optimal replacement pump is Pierburg CWA100 p/n 7.06754.05.0 around $250. It is all about pressure vs. flow, and this model delivers the best pressure in class. You may also want to consider a dedicated pump controller such as Tecomotive tinyCWA for $125. Mine was ordered with the pre-crimped connector, p/n T.00101.2.0.2. One can source both the controller + wiring harness + CWA100-2 pump from Tecomotive, competitively priced, but I bought the pump separately.
This sounds like a reasonably priced solution to improve IAT. The next level is a more labor-intensive and 2x-3x cost in the main (center) heat exchanger like the AMS Alpha. IAT will improve power output no matter any other mods or stock. Depending on where your vehicle is with performance mods, there may be a better ROI elsewhere.
Hope this helps.
Hi!
Are you sure that the upgrade IC pump is better than the stock one? Are there any measured benefits? Or is that pump thing just the tuners opinion and they want sell those to us. Im asking this because one off the oldest tuners with our cars did say to me that the IC pump upgrades doesn't change anything. Our cars pump is really good its self. He did say its really the best pump.
All the heat exchangers upgrade would be the way to get the benefits. Increase the cooling areas and get more volume there.
On the non s the auxiliary heat exchanger is for engine coolant only , doesn’t tie into the intercooler. The only heat exchanger option for non s is the main center rad only.
Are there any heat exchangers there ( down right side on front bumper) on non S cars with splitter IC cooling?? Cars like facelift 2014 E550, CLS550 and older AMG E63, CLS63??
Im asking this because im going to buy VRP heat exchanger to my car. I have the splitted cooling system, but after your writing im a confused do I have any heat exchanger att all there. And if I have, does the upgrade help anything to cool IC temps att all?
On the non s the auxiliary heat exchanger is for engine coolant only, doesn’t tie into the intercooler. The only heat exchanger option for non s is the main center rad only.
Thanks for drawing attention to this. The non-S models use the mid (center) HE for the IC low-temperature circuit; the auxiliary HE in the right air dam assists the engine water cooler. The S-models add the 2nd aux HE in the left air dam, which assists the engine water cooler, and the right aux HE changes its role to assists the IC low-temperature circuit. This M157 upgrade is listed as option code M014.
Are you sure that the upgrade IC pump is better than the stock one? Are there any measured benefits? Or is that pump thing just the tuners opinion and they want sell those to us?
The IC pump upgrade was discussed a lot circa 2011-2014 on MBWorld. There are some phenomenal threads that go for years. One particular enthusiast (Welwynnick) tracked many leading pumps and plotted their performance like so:
This is not the latest chart I am sure, but the easiest to understand. Nick concludes that many pumps (DaviesCraig, Meziere, Johnson, Jabsco) are tuned for engine cooling resistance. They have too high flow and too low pressure for IC systems. The CWA100-2 was measured on a German forum inline on E55 + Aux HE to flow about 30% faster than the stock Bosch 010 pump. This translates to 120% more pumping power due to increased pressure. Luckily for us, there are good pump choices. IMHO, when everything is said and done, the Pierburg CWA100-2 (a.k.a., Renntech or the SLS pump) is the optimal upgrade because of the fitment, brushless design, quality construction, electronic control, and best in class performance profile for IC circuits. Also, a reasonably-priced and supported controller is available for it.
I have installed the Blackboost intakes and did a dyno before and after and the results speak for themselves big difference in power up top after 4k RPMS and data-logs have shown in wastegate duty cycle dropping in some cases by over 20% which And yes hood closed during blackboost pulls M157 Blackboost filter installed Fully installed. Ready to fly.
means the turbos are not working as hard and the compressed air is no getting as hot either.
Thanks a lot for great info maxusa ! And also thanks to cifdig! I did learn a lot. Now I think there's no reason for me to buy heat exchanger in bumper. I should get the better main rad. Or need to buy that option code M014 set up. Now I stop to spam this topic and enjoy the intake results.
14 E63, 05 E55, 03 Evo 8, 08 F250, 06 R6R, 92 Talon TSI, and instability
Originally Posted by maxusa
Yes, I researched both fairly well. My recommendation is to consider larger efficiency heat exchangers in the bumper air dams. PLM (Private Label Manufacturing) aux heat exchanger, p/n PLM-M45-HEAT-EXCHANGER-M157 for $346.50/ea group buy ($500/ea sale; $700/ea regular from AMS). It looks exactly like AMS Alpha. Need 1 for non-S/pre-facelift; need 2 for S-models. The non-S models benefit the most from the relative efficiency increase. I agree that the main (center) HE upgrade can yield even better IAT. Regarding the water pump, the optimal replacement pump is Pierburg CWA100 p/n 7.06754.05.0 around $250. It is all about pressure vs. flow, and this model delivers the best pressure in class. You may also want to consider a dedicated pump controller such as Tecomotive tinyCWA for $125. Mine was ordered with the pre-crimped connector, p/n T.00101.2.0.2. One can source both the controller + wiring harness + CWA100-2 pump from Tecomotive, competitively priced, but I bought the pump separately.
This sounds like a reasonably priced solution to improve IAT. The next level is a more labor-intensive and 2x-3x cost in the main (center) heat exchanger like the AMS Alpha. IAT will improve power output no matter any other mods or stock. Depending on where your vehicle is with performance mods, there may be a better ROI elsewhere.
Hope this helps.
I agree with everything said here EXCEPT for the recommendation of using PLM. They are ABSOLUTELY NOT COMPARABLE to AMS in quality. Some people have gotten an "ok" product, some of us got sent crap. If you're going to do this, don't cheap out and buy the AMS one.
I agree with everything said here EXCEPT for the recommendation of using PLM. They are ABSOLUTELY NOT COMPARABLE to AMS in quality. Some people have gotten an "ok" product, some of us got sent crap. If you're going to do this, don't cheap out and buy the AMS one.
I agree...the PLM looks like hammered doggie-doo compared to the AMS. The welds are atrocious. People have ordered them and received small free gifts though...metal slag inside the cooler. Hell, I wouldn't use one, and I'm CHEAP!
I know some of us voiced concerns during the last group buy. I hear you. Very unfortunate indeed. I am sure that you were offered a replacement or refund. My PLM and a bunch of others are fine units for what it's worth. Alpha products do look really nice. I respect their original R&D.
The black boost delivers uncomparable performance gains... proven on the street after multiple draggy runs from multiple users in varying weather.
Numbers don't lie.
08-04-2020, 05:21 AM
