Subatomic Power

I have been trying to get some info to replace my 2019 GTC Roadster with a new 2022 GTC Roadster - and discovered that MB has decided to not produce any GT’s starting 2022! I will order a new 2021 instead, but does anybody have any idea what MB is doing with the GT series? I know that the new SL is coming out, but no more supercars? That’s sad.


Looks good at night on the street in the mountain town, Canmore AB.

Surge

Can I ask why you would replace a 2019 with a 2021? Everything is better about a 2019 - the exhaust note, Sport+ backfires, the interior console dials, and yeah, even the analog dials.
When every car has a digital dash (which is basically now), analog dials will be sought after and seen as unique!

superswiss

The next generation GT is supposedly in the works. It'll share a platform with the new SL, which will most likely mean no GT roadsters anymore. No specifics have been released, though. It'll be electrified as all upcoming AMGs are and that could mean M139 4-cylinder with hybrid like the upcoming C63 has all but been confirmed. It'll also have 4Matic+. It'll be a different car. Weight is gonna be an issue unless they go to town and make heavy use of carbon fiber. The new C63 looks to gain about 500 lbs over the outgoing one. I think we are all on our toes about the future of AMG. There are also rumors of 73-series models, which might retain the V8.

Subatomic Power

Sure! I want Apple CarPlay as well as surround cameras. Parking the 2018 is often nerve wracking. I might also go for the carbon ceramic brakes this time and just keep the vehicle long-term. I abhor brake dust because I’m a total detail nut. It’s a curse, I’m afraid.

electrification of the GT series is probably going to be inevitable, but I am not very enthusiastic about it with current technology.

my wife has a 2021GLE 63S, and it is unbelievably awesome. But it is an extremely heavy vehicle, and all of the electronic magic simply cannot completely erase physics. Mass is mass no matter what you do.

for that kind of vehicle, partial electrification with the 48 V system is just fine. You don’t really notice it all that much. But for a supercar that you often take canyon carving at high speed - it is an entirely different thing. I don’t like the weight that comes with electrification.

I suppose that the Taycan has gotten it figured out - but nobody talks about the fact that you have to fly home from your day trips and send a tow truck to pick up your Taycan from the rural town that you left it in because you couldn’t charge it.

I’m content to just drive the “last” of the pure V8 GT Roadsters. Might still buy the current one out at lease end and send down South to drive during my vacation time down there.

now the only question is whether or not to add ceramic brakes to a vehicle that I will never track. Just to not have to scrub brake dust is good enough justification for me on that issue.....

Surge

The 2021 does not have surround cameras. It has a front camera, no side cameras.
I have a seat memory setting which elevates the seat, which I use for parking. It’s not at all hard to find the corners of the car, especially if you move the seat up.

I have my iPhone on a windshield mount by the A pillar. I have CarPlay in my 2019 G550 and I honestly don’t miss it in the GTC. You have way more control of what you want to see if you use the iPhone, and you can keep something else on the COMAND screen - it’s 2 screens vs 1.

I agree with you about electrification for a car like this. But it will be faster around The ‘Ring, and that’s what will sell more cars. Plus, they will have AWD.
All the more reason to keep your 2019!

Subatomic Power

Ah yes! You are quite correct! But the front camera is probably good enough for me. The sonar is good for parking, but not quite enough. I already have my radar detector mounted on the windshield, and I just don't like to add more stuff. In California, the cops rub their hands with glee when they see stuff on your windshield.....so the CarPlay is a nice thing to have. I think I'm also sold on the carbon ceramic brakes. These GT's are really awesome - it will be a shame to see the electrification basically wreck the supercar series.

Some of our group supercar drives are 6 hours long or more at high speed through complex mountain passes, etc. I don't think that an electric hybrid would be able to keep up - though the 48 volt electric non-plug-in supercars might be just fine. I would be surprised, however, if anything that depends upon electric motors to boost torque and power will be able to tow the line on our fun drives. The McLarens are bad enough....they have to stop to fuel up every 90 min minimum!

superswiss

That to me is the biggest aspect nobody talks about. What happens once the battery is depleted on a fun drive? I do a lot of canyon drives in my cars. My C63S coupe finally has a big enough tank to get through most of them on a single tank. I usually do 250+ miles on a nice weekend. But the next C63 and possibly other AMG models only get about 400 hp out of the ICE, and the other 150 to 200+ hp have to come from the electric motor, which obviously once the battery is depleted won't be able to supply the power for very long. Typically the strategy of these performance hybrids is to keep a big enough battery reserve to allow for brief full power burst and even use the ICE to dynamically recharge the battery when you are not on it ***** out, but it remains to be seen at what point these cars will simply revert to ICE power only if you make sustained use of the full performance. BEVs are even worse. I would end up stranded on all those drives. There will simply not be enough charging infrastructure anytime soon to go on fun drivers with a performance electric vehicle, and even if there were charging opportunities the whole experience would get ruined by the required frequent charging stops. I'm afraid, but I think we are looking at the end of an era for those of us who actually use their performance cars for what they are supposed to be designed for. These electric/hybrid powertrains are fine for commuting and nightly charging at home, but for that we don't need performance/super cars.

Subatomic Power

Totally agree! Electric vehicles are great for commuting within short drives, but forget anything over 100 miles. We have a nice ski hill only 80 miles away from the city. My friend cannot quite make it there and back in his maxed out Tesla P100D when he had the heat on during the drive. He literally has to stop in a small town just about 15 miles out of town to recharge for a couple of hours....but lately, he has to get in line to charge his Tesla.....he ended up selling it and switching to a Volvo. My neighbours in Phoenix could not make the drive from LA to PHX in their Tesla. They had to stop to charge at a supercharger station.....but the wait to do so at that point was about 4 hours because of all the Teslas ahead of them. He had to call for a tow truck to make it the last 100 miles to Phoenix. Now he just uses the Tesla for short commutes within Phoenix.

I don't see that this problem is solvable without the battery swap service stations that they have all over China for their version of the Tesla.

Supercars are an entirely different animal, however - electrification of any supercar will simply bugger the power to weight ratios in them to such an extent that they will no longer really be supercars. They will be basically fancy go carts with a lot of plastic and brand names on them. Discerning buyers will "get it" and avoid them like the plague.....and I think that the industry will probably "learn" from this eventually.

I would think that Mercedes will want to focus on more volume sales and electrification, which helps them to expand their lines without running afoul of CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) violations. Supercars probably hurt their CAFE numbers enormously and so they probably need to really consolidate them into very few, if any, supercars in their fleet of offerings. You could be right that GT's will start to soar in value over some time.

Surge

Yes, totally agree.

Unfortunately, everything is going this way. The 911 will soon become electrified. Exhaust notes are being progressively muted...

superswiss

With the right amount of carbon fiber the weight can be kept under control. I'm actually not completely opposed to performance hybrids. Just take a look at the new McLaren Artura. 8500 rpm V6 hybrid powertrain, and virtually no increase in curb weight over their existing platform. It can be done. Frankly the Artura looks more exciting than the GT, but again, no word yet on how long you get full power. It does officially have dynamic recharging via the ICE on the go.

https://cars.mclaren.com/us-en/artura

The only exciting hybrid supercar coming out of AMG so far is the Project One with its detuned F1 engine, but apparently they still can't get the emissions past, so not sure if the car will even happen. Curb weight is also not bad. But that thing costs a couple million if it ever become reality.

Wolfman

The next SL will come with the V8 on the 63 & 73 models. 43 & 53 will be a 4 banger...

superswiss

From the looks of it there won't be a 63 nor a 43. The 73 models will be V8 + hybrid and 800+ HP.

Wolfman

Very possible that Mercedes continues to change their line-up as of late. In general, the engine line-up was identical to the GT coupe, which included the 43/63. The only thing I can find from February is this article...
https://jesmb.de/5918/
This is of particular interest as we are considering a new SL63. The SL 73e sounds interesting but maybe too heavy and the 63 will be the default for the S-Class.

BBS63

My opinion to you would be to keep the 2019, you have done good as far as parking so far so keep doing it. As far as apple play and all that I cant comment, last thing i want to see is my phone and anything that has to do with a phone while Im in the GTS. It goes in the center console until I stop to look at it. Most importantly is the sound, you will miss the sound difference from the exhaust going to the 2021 unless you like them quieter.
Mercedes is compiling the GT with the SL, I dont think the GT or GTS actually be what it originally was/is to this date. Everything is going electric, nothing we can do about it. Thats great. But I will hang on to my "old" 2016 archaic V8TT powerplant for as long as I can. The Taycan is an amazing car, but then there is the whole where do i charge it if needed and takes too much planning to just go out and enjoy the car for what it is meant to.
Granted, If I were to ever get an electric vehicle planning is everything, But for the time being I believe your 2019 has served you well, if you are one that "needs" new things then by all means get the 2021 but I think you will miss it, I say that judging by what you have written.

MalibuScott

Circa 2014-2016 I used to drive my BMW i8 to various Malibu cars and coffee-type events. I'd park it with the regular cars because it was just a production car and nothing great in terms of performance although its looks were a little eye catching. But I always saw a La Ferrari or two and a Porsche 918. So there have been hybrid supercars.

As for trading in the 2019 GTA for a 2021, I have a 2020 GTA, after trading in my 2018 GT and I long for the coupe's simpler controls. I have but don't like and don't use CarPlay, but that's pretty much the only feature my 2018 didn't have.

Subatomic Power

WOW! Thank-you so much for telling me about the the sound difference between the two! I had no idea! I checked with my service manager here, and it turns out that the sound difference on the American versions is real, but not in the Canadian version. Apparently, the “Sports exhaust” option is non-optional on the louder Canadian models that get slightly different catalytic converters. I guess that we’re loud and obnoxious up here in Canada.

sodhigtc

my 2020 gtc here in Canada sounds absolutely fine! Crackles are still very loud and pronounced and from the outside it’s super loud. I had a buddy do some fly bys for me because i was concerned it would be too quiet but I have zero issues now. Granted the cabin noise sounds a little artificial but no issues with pops and cracks. I can post a few videos if you need to hear! Main issues with quieter cars are the European ones and perhaps the states but no opf in Canada!

Saudio

I have to think that this means the long haulers who keep the GT cars with see an increase in value. Or at least they will hold.

superswiss

Or not, once it becomes difficult to drive these kinds of cars. At some point expect restrictions on driving pure ICE cars. We may need special permits to drive these cars for a limited amount of miles and gas stations won't be at every corner. California wants to ban new ICE car sales by 2035. Other states will follow and through attrition the existing cars will start to go away. We have the first city here in California that just decided to ban building new gas stations and adding more pumps to existing ones. You may have to be content with having your car sit in a museum like setting. Maybe there will be synthetic fuels or we can convert the engines to burn hydrogen, who knows, but there is no certainty that anyone would want such a car in the future. Maybe there will be a few collectors who'll display these cars in their collections and occasionally get to drive them at special events or something. The GTs are not exactly limited production cars, either.

Skilly

I might take that bet. At the moment, there are very few GTs for sale nationally that are 2018 or newer. And, when you get to the C and R variants, well...a fraction of the bunch. I belieive that the SLS could be purchased for a decent price at a similar interval during its lifecycle and now, not so much. The GT is showing signs of the same. I'm not a purest by any stretch - I modify everything I own but, Im guessing it will have some collector value. Limited production Mercedes vehicles have a pretty decent track record for this...sure they made 3x the number of GTs vs SLS, but consider 'limited production' in the context of 5 years of production still not equaling even half of the 2019 production run for the 911.

As far as gas vehicles being abandoned in 15 years. I'll take that bet too....it will take them another 10 years just to create infrastructure that comes close to Tesla (which is proprietary). Manufactures are bringing them forward but its at best reluctant participation. They lose money on every car, and given their lack of service required, they need to revamp their 80 year old economic model. There are headwinds everywhere for electric vehicles to put combustion out of business. Then there is the consumer which unless legislation offers carrot along with stick, will vote with their dollars....most people won't go their voluntarily. And finally, there is Ohm's law that is constantly challenged, but keeps getting in the way of battery health when it comes to rapid charging, which will be essential for the elimination of the gas powered car.

In the US its exponentially worse with the lack of public transportation and commutes that depend on transportation. It's a multidimensional challenge with resistance and significant challenge associated with every building block that will take focus, positive disruption (carrot, not stick) and ultimately decades to solve.

And after all of the headwinds, I think one of the biggest challenges with this proposed shift is men and women's age old love affair with the car. There have been dozens of songs written about cars and the feeling they give us. And, I don't recall a single song written about a golf kart (aka electric car).

Acta_Non_Verba

History repeating itself.

Skilly

Well, this is an interesting quote. Moreover, they weren't wrong. They just grossly underestimated the impact.

Also, the car didn't really become readily available until the 1920s...so 45 years for a global paradigm shift sounds about right. And, there are still plenty of horses around today

COOPERDB

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"And after all of the headwinds, I think one of the biggest challenges with this proposed shift is men and women's age old love affair with the car. There have been dozens of songs written about cars and the feeling they give us. And, I don't recall a single song written about a golf kart (aka electric car)."

You Tube

Thank-You
D.B.


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Acta_Non_Verba

I stay out of speculating about what things will look like in the near or far future. Even though we can employ some very reasoned logic to predict how things might look even ten years from now, the conclusions we draw about impossible obstacles also appear on some brilliant people's problem solving radars.

502Bill

I agree with you here, though Fahrenheit 451 looks pretty damn convincing right about now.